Re: Good strategy?
 

I like the idea, I also mentioned it in a post http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=23680.
But I'd also like to ask, how often as robots gonna hit/knock down both trigger balls in autonomous mode as there is like a foot of space between the two. Cuz if its likely that your opponent will trigger both ball releases then this design has a much better chance of winning even if your partner can't trigger the ball release.

Re: Good strategy?
 

Ok. Now I have to make you look at the flip side. The cost, weight, power, and size of the robot are HUGE factors if you want to make a device like this especially the height issue. Not to mention how easy it is to break that. And, you may have a problem if you want to get the 50 points there for the taking. It's a good startegy if your robot is not able to do anything else for about a minute in the match.

Re: Good strategy?
 

It is easy to design a catch system with enough power, strength, and size to accomplish this. And it should not be that exspensive either. And it still a good strategy, even if you still want to do other stuff.

Re: Good strategy?
 

now you are jumping from the big WHAT (should our robot do) to the big HOW (will the robot do that)

funny thing about engineering - the biggest mistakes are often not going after the best WHAT - taking on the best concept and finding a way.

I promise you - there will be bots at the events that find a way to catch every ball before it touches the floor - because they will focus on that, they will keep at it till an elegant solution pops into their mind at 3AM - and when you see it your jaw will hit the floor and you will spontainously say "Why didnt we think of that!"

Why - cause you gave up on it too soon - the solution didnt come to you in 30 minutes or less, so you thought it was too: hard, complicated, expensive...

Once you have the best answer to WHAT your robot should do, its time to start kissing frogs - keep thinking up possible solutions - most of them will be frogs - but sooner or later you will kiss one and it will turn into a beautiful thing.

Anything worthwhile takes a little time!

Re: Good strategy?
 

Considering it is stated in rules that balls are allowed to be passed to alliance members, I think 1:45 is plenty of time for 2 people to throw 18 balls (assuming good efficiency).

Re: Good strategy?
 

help them improve it before your first match together :^)

Re: Good strategy?
 

I didnt have that many major problems with it, with the exception of the possible waiting for 45 seconds. But if we use a runner, we could knock the ball off ourselves and get under the ball dump in the autonomous mode. Plus with a fabric, unfolding chute, it wouldn't be too heavy, and we'de gain control of the balls quickly. Hmmmm, another possibility for the runner.

Re: Good strategy?
 

We thought about that too in conjunction with a few other doo dads we could attatch and then realized how expensive in time for us it would be to produce that so we canned it. (Despite the fact I still think it's a relatively good strategy)

Re: Good strategy?
 

what do you mean by a 'runner'?

a tethered bot? there is an entanglement rule this year - having a detachable baby bot on a wire probabally wont be allowed.

Re: Good strategy?
 

I don't know if i'm wrong or not. But in the past when it came to strategy we didn't want to have a primary strategy that involved relying on our aliance partner. Now I agree that this is a good strategy, but not for the qualifiing rounds, but it could work for the elimination rounds when you know your alliance bot's strategy. But I see the point your teammates made. Try mentioning that it could work during the elimination rounds.

All the best.

Re: Good strategy?
 

our team talked about this idea, catching all the balls as they fall, and we decided not to use it. Reasons being:

1. its all or nothing - if it fails to work you get none of them - if you are tying to get the balls in auton mode, and something goes wrong, the balls will be all over the field, and you will have no way to collect them.

2. its complex to build, would be vunerable to damage, and might be difficult to fix between matches

3. as the game is being played you need to keep the HP supplied with a steady stream of balls - this approach would dump all the balls on one human player all at once, and your bot would probabally have to stay there for a while - 18 balls wont fit in the corral all at one time, so your bot is not free to go do a different task. we decided it would be more time effecient to gather a few balls, deliver them, then gather a few more.... or go after the 2X ball in between gathering.

Re: Good strategy?
 

I recall seeing some amazing ball collecting bots in 2000 and in 2002, many of which had a large basket for storing balls on top. I don't see why you couldn't try to get the balls that fall, and still be able to collect the ones you miss.

Re: Good strategy?
 

My dream robot would be one that could catch all the balls...teamwork can be great...while still be able to load them from the bottom, it would then grab the mobile goal uncap it and hold it..go infront of the ball coral and release the balls while the mobile goal was on the back of it. The HPs would be trained to not overshoot because if the shot is short it would return to the basket of balls and return to the HP. Your own ball rebounder/returner. Once the mobile goal is full the robot would cap it and try to retrieve another 2X. When accomplished it would wait in front of the stationary goal. And rebound shots while returning them by aiming its conveyor return and shoot the balls into their corral. At a certain time or when the goal is full the robot would cap it, climb to the bottom platform via the stairs and hook to the bar and pull itself up. But I'm still dreaming. I hope I get woke up at 3 in the morning with how to do this all effectively.

Re: Good strategy?
 

"1. its all or nothing - if it fails to work you get none of them - if you are tying to get the balls in auton mode, and something goes wrong, the balls will be all over the field, and you will have no way to collect them."

This is all part of the strategy. This is true, but it is not a big enough reason to eliminate the use of this strategy. If your alliance member (or opponent) fails to hit one of your bonus balls in the auton mode, you can wait the extra 30 seconds and then give all the balls to your player, you can try to get small balls from your opponents side, or you can attempt to control a 2x ball or the goals. Another thing about this is that you don't have to be one of the top teams to be in the finals. If your robot can reliably collect the balls and deliver them to your player station effectively, then you will most likely be picked by one of the top teams who did well being able to control the goals and 2x balls.


"3. as the game is being played you need to keep the HP supplied with a steady stream of balls - this approach would dump all the balls on one human player all at once, and your bot would probabally have to stay there for a while - 18 balls wont fit in the corral all at one time, so your bot is not free to go do a different task. we decided it would be more time effecient to gather a few balls, deliver them, then gather a few more.... or go after the 2X ball in between gathering."

This is false logic, because if the robot supplies all the balls to the player station in the first 45 seconds of teh match (including auton), the human player can then have the rest of the match to be throwing all the balls and the robot can focus on one other task, instead of having to interrupt the 2x ball manipulation or bar hanging to get more small balls to the human player. And if you are efficient about collecting the balls in the beginning, it will ultimately give your human player more balls in a shorter period of time then collecting them across the field. Your human player does not need a steady stream of balls, if he can get them all in the beginning. When the robot delivers all the balls, the human player and coach and possibly one of the drivers can help remove all the balls from the corral as they quickly come in. Then there are plenty of balls for your alliance players throughout the match. It will also free up your alliances robot to concentrate on other tasks, such as goal manipulation, 2x ball control, and/or bar hanging, so they will be able to more effectively perform whatever tasks possible.

I believe I have worked through all the negatives of this strategy and found that it will be more effective than any other strategy, as long as the robot is reliable. The reliability all depends on the team, the design, and the auton coding, which is all dependent on the team. I welcome any other suggestions for or against this strategy as I try to look at every aspect of it.

Re: Good strategy?
 

you could, but that means you need two separate systems on your bot to collect the balls, one to catch them from the 8' wide dropper, and a second to collect them from the floor.

We decided if you have the floor-collector you dont need the falling ball collector.