Re: Good strategy?
 

yeah but can it make popcorn for your team while its in the pits?

Re: Good strategy?
 

Can't the mechanism that catches the balls from overhead serve a twofold pupose in also being the hopper for the balls collected from the floor? Then, when you need to empty out the hopper into the corral, simply 'reverse' the ball collecting mechanism...

Re: Good strategy?
 

look at the drawings of the ball corral - its 4 feet wide and the balls are slightly over 1 foot wide - ie you can only get 3 balls through the opening at a time

and then where are you going to put those 18 balls, in additon to the 3 you aleady have there? the bot will be forced to sit there while the human player shoots most of them, maybe 2/3rds of them, before it can feed the last ball through the corral and go off and do something else.

Its gonna take a good shooter 4 or 5 seconds per ball to pick them up and shoot them - thats a good minute at least that you bot has to sit there feeding the balls through.

besides that, the best time to go after a 2X ball is in auton mode - thats when there will be the least amount of contention for them - and there is on reason why a floor collector cant sweep the floor for balls during auton mode too - having several to supply to the HP when auton ends.

dont get me wrong on this - catching all the balls as they drop IS a good strategy - but it DOES have drawbacks and potential problems (like all strategys will).

Based on our teams analysis of the game, our resources and funds, and the tradeoffs of each approach we looked at, this one got eliminated. That doesnt mean another team cant use it and pull it off.

Re: Good strategy?
 

The rules clearly state that the human player does not need to be the one who grabs the balls. Since your robot isn't moving anyways, you could have one of your drivers grab the balls and just put them on the floor. I would imagine that, even with 18 balls in your hopper, you could deliver all of you balls this way in less than 30 seconds.

Re: Good strategy?
 

A robot with a 8 foot bin is completely possible, as is making one that could contain all the balls. It's all about style and skill, and when you have a great idea, it's best to run with it before someone realizes what you are up to.

Our team also dismissed this idea, because it seemed too top-heavy and we had some other really awesome ideas. A robot like this would be a specialty robot, and, most likely, a first pick for finals. Simple attachments could make it the ideal Ball Manipulator robot.

Don't dis the idea when it's sound the whole way 'round. :.)

Re: Good strategy?
 

having something that serves two purposes usually corrupts both of them. Its best to design a subsystem that has one function and optimise it for that one thing

when you try to morph two functions you end up with a kludge. Our team is gathering balls from the floor, and we have no reason to toss them up into an 8 foot wide dumpster - the less you have to move the balls the better.

another thing to consider for this - the passage way to the other side of the field is 8 feet wide. Build a bot wide enough to catch all the balls and you wont be able to drive it to the other side of the field, unless you collasp it back down first.

Re: Good strategy?
 

The question should be raised...

Why bother picking up small balls when you can catch 18 right off the bat?

I mean... let's say you are able to pick up 25 small balls off the floor, and deliver them to the HP during a match (in several loads, or all at once, or whatever). Wouldn't it be more beneficial to get 18 IMMEDIATELY, and then spend the rest of the match (~1:30) playing defense? Say by playing defense you keep your opponent from scoring 10 balls -- by slowing them down, and getting in their way. Now you've effectively swung the score 28 (or more) points in your favor.

Now... if you have a machine that catches all 18, and then can also pick up more small balls... you are going to be a force to be reckoned with. Every ball you grab is one your opponent can't.

Robot that gets 18 instantly. vs. Robot that gets 30 over time.

I know who I'd want for a partner in the finals.



Just something to think about.
Yay for stratejury.

John

Also -- I've seen plenty of mechanisms that accomplish more than one task, and do it better than several individual mechanisms. Prime Example -- 177's 2001 Robot. Look it up. It had an arm that could do EVERYTHING.

Re: Good strategy?
 

I have to agree with John on this one. And there are plenty of relatively simple ways teams could knock their bonus balls AND catch the 18 balls. Take some hints from some of the bots with tethers in 2002. There were bots that could spread across the entire field in 2-3 seconds using spring loaded scissor mechanisms and such things.

With a little modification, knocking off the bonus ball can be a light simple mechanisms based off some people's 2k2 devices (or your new ideas)... just in case your partner can't do it.

Re: Good strategy?
 

with the entanglement rule I really doubt the judges will allow any tethers mouse-bots to be running around during auton mode or during most of the match

the tethered mice were only allowed in 2002 because they were released in the last few seconds of the game, and there was little risk of entanglement - if you entangle another bot I believe you are disqualified for that match. (not sure on this)

I posted all the reasons why our team choose not to try to design a dump truck to catch the 18 balls - I dont want to tie up the forum repeating myself.

You can only put so many subsytems on your bot - if you are going to catch the falling balls AND get them off the floor AND release the trigger ball AND get the 2X ball....

if you can do all that I will be impressed :c)

(but then again, engineers ARE easily amused! )

Re: Good strategy?
 

Doing everything really isn't as hard as everyone thinks...or is it? We'll have to wait and see what happens. If I had my way with the design, the bot would easily collect the balls as they fall when my bot knocks the bonus ball off the tee, after 15 seconds it would then efficiently deliver them to my player station, after 45 seconds the human player would have all 18 balls and the robot would go after a 2x ball and both mobile goals, after 1:30 or less the bot would deliver the goals infront of our alliance player station then head towards the platform, dropping the 2x ball on the stationary goal with at least 18 balls in it and then head for the bar. The robot would easily climb the 6 inch steps and reach the bar to hang before the end of the 2:00. I believe that all that is possible, without it being to complicated. However, my team decided that we did not want it, so I am disappointed. Oh well, I hope I see a robot in competition like the one I envisioned.

Re: Good strategy?
 

there is an easy way to design a robot that can do everything, like you want

Build a lightweight base platform with two motors, the RC and battery

and have a low, flat top

onto which you screw a pair of sneakers.

then find out which student on your team weighs the least

wrap that student up in alum foil, leaving openings for sight and breathing

and then stand in the sneakers, acting like a robot as much as possible

the hardest part about this will be getting shipped to the regionals in the crate - the trucks are not heated, and they will have to spend a few weeks in the drayage warehouse - but after that they really WILL be the lightest student on the team

:c)

Re: Good strategy?
 

Robots like these have big red bullseyes painted on them. If your robot can do everything, make it very durable.

Re: Good strategy?
 

The secret to building a good "everything" robot is going through as many designs as possible. That's how we arrived at our 2001 bot. We started desgining the claw as just a way of grabbing the big balls and designed a separate goal grabber. We then realized that, with just a few minor adjustments, we could use it to grab the goals as well.

Re: Good strategy?
 

Re: Good strategy?
 

Hmmmmmm, sounds like a good strategy to me!!! I wonder how many teams will do that?