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-   -   New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23893)

AlphaOmega870 14-01-2004 18:02
New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Our joysticks are insanely sensitive. When moved, they do not return to zeroed position by themselves. Is there any other way to adjust sensitivity? :confused:

josh_johnson 14-01-2004 18:52
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
The easiest way to do this would probably be to add a deadband in programming by changing the output value to the motor to 127 if the joystick is within a certain range of 127. For example, if pwm01 and pwm02 are controlling the robot drive, you could insert the following code in the Process_Data_From_Master_uP function in the user_routines.c function:

int deadband = 20;
//the above value may need to be more or less depending on how sensitive the joysticks are
pwm01 = (abs(pwm01 - 127) <= deadband ? 127 : pwm01);
pwm02 = (abs(pwm02 - 127) <= deadband ? 127 : pwm02);


and add this function to find absolute value to the user_routines.c file as well:

int abs(a) {
return (a < 0 ? -a : a);
}

I have not tested this, but I do believe that it should work.

echos 14-01-2004 19:52
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
The new joysticks this year are good and bad in there own.

Good
-More buttons
-Fits your right hand comfortably

Bad
-Doesn't fit left hand
-No wheel
-Can't use two joysticks on the same port
-Anything else you can think of

Jeremy_Mc 14-01-2004 20:07
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by echos
The new joysticks this year are good and bad in there own.

Good
-More buttons
-Fits your right hand comfortably

Bad
-Doesn't fit left hand
-No wheel
-Can't use two joysticks on the same port
-Anything else you can think of
Look again ;) There are two wheels to be exact.

I like them...but I wish they'd sent a left handed, too! What about left handed drivers? :( Lefties unite!

OK, not really...

I do like the extra buttons and the little d-pad in the middle very much. Fun stuff for us programmers to play with!

Tytus Gerrish 14-01-2004 20:09
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
theyre nice But Only right handed.
For a Driver like Me who likes to use two sticks to drive the new sticks would be a bit awkward i have the idea of using an old stick on the left a new one in the right and using the other new stick for an operator. but now that you say they have difrent sesctivity... im thinking i only would use the old sticks for driving.

Using one stick In a ,2 wheel drive, tank or somthing similar. i find it very frustrating. with one stick the computer is deciding what to do with your movements and it dosent always want to do what you think your telling it to

Specialagentjim 14-01-2004 20:19
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tytus Gerrish
theyre nice But Only right handed.
For a Driver like Me who likes to use two sticks to drive the new sticks would be a bit awkward i have the idea of using an old stick on the left a new one in the right and using the other new stick for an operator. but now that you say they have difrent sesctivity... im thinking i only would use the old sticks for driving.

Using one stick In a ,2 wheel drive, tank or somthing similar. i find it very frustrating. with one stick the computer is deciding what to do with your movements and it dosent always want to do what you think your telling it to
I second this! heh, I've used 2 sticks for tank style driving since 7th grade. I sincerly doubt you'll get me out of the habit.

Anthony Kesich 14-01-2004 22:08
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy_Mc
Look again ;) There are two wheels to be exact.
Those are null wheels. They adjust the offset and are used to null the joystick. What we're looking for is a wheel that gives its own analogue output, not just adjusts another.

Caleb Fulton 15-01-2004 00:57
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Kesich
Those are null wheels. They adjust the offset and are used to null the joystick. What we're looking for is a wheel that gives its own analogue output, not just adjusts another.
Alas, the side wheel is gone :(

We do, however, have two more buttons built into the joystick that work. The button to the left of the omni-directional thingy is pN_sw_aux1, and the other one is pN_sw_aux2 (where N is obviously the port number).

Adam Shapiro 15-01-2004 08:33
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I agree that the new joysticks are awkward to drive but they are nice as a secondary control. For the drive I'm going to switch back to the old joysticks! At least they fit your hand!

Aignam 15-01-2004 09:49
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I don't particularly like the new joysticks. They feel flimsy and plasticy. The old joysticks, the ones we will be using this year, feel sturdier and generally more comfortable. Plus the whole 2-joystick drive for tank drive robots problem with the right handed joysticks, but that has been elaborated upon already.

Adam Shapiro 15-01-2004 10:02
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
A few years ago we had a stick that was similar in design to the new ones but black and much sturdier. Unfortunately it broke when we took the robot somewhere to showcase it... :(

Aignam 15-01-2004 10:04
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Shapiro
A few years ago we had a stick that was similar in design to the new ones but black and much sturdier. Unfortunately it broke when we took the robot somewhere to showcase it... :(
One of our last year's joysticks broke during an unfortunate carride to a demonstration. It was an interesting demonstration, using our duct taped krazy glued joystick, but thankfully another team lent us one to use for the day. We bought another joystick to replace it, though.

Adam Shapiro 15-01-2004 10:07
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Yea, we would have bought a new one after that one broke (hit by car door) but it was post-season so we didn't think anything of it until it was too late to remember where it was from...

Francis-134 15-01-2004 15:10
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Does anyone happen to have the model number/website for the joysticks. I havent had a chance to see them any I won't be able to get to them till Saturday.

robolemur1236 15-01-2004 15:28
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
i want the website too...
it has this weird AB swooshy logo on it and a model #, but besides that, nothing. If we get the website we can get a lefty joystick :P
besides, we can always just 'modify' the joystick if necessary

Aignam 15-01-2004 15:49
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I know that the joysticks are supplied by InnovationFIRST (http://www.innovationfirst.com/), but I was unable to locate the joysticks (AVB Topshot Analog Joystick) on the website.

Greg Ross 15-01-2004 16:21
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aignam
I know that the joysticks are supplied by InnovationFIRST (http://www.innovationfirst.com/), but I was unable to locate the joysticks (AVB Topshot Analog Joystick) on the website.
Has anyone checked out http://www.avbusa.com? I haven't had a chance to see the joysticks yet this year, so I don't know if any of the sticks pictured on their site match what we received.

Random Dude 15-01-2004 17:39
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwross
Has anyone checked out http://www.avbusa.com? I haven't had a chance to see the joysticks yet this year, so I don't know if any of the sticks pictured on their site match what we received.

Looks like this is it: http://www.avbusa.com/avb2003/gc1000fr.htm

mDuo13 15-01-2004 17:56
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I like the look of the new joystick, and it feels really cool in my right hand. It does not, however, work at all in the left hand, and considering how our primary driver is left-handed, that could prove to be a little bit more than a minor annoyance. >=/

I definitely agree with the idea of having a joystick with more buttons. After all, more buttons means more functions that the driver can handle by him/herself, instead of relying on a secondary driver to flip switches on request. And that means that the secondary driver can do more stuff, too. *grin*

But yeah, only getting a pair of right-handed joysticks seems to be a rather laughable lack of foresight... Didn't they think about that beforehand?

team222badbrad 15-01-2004 19:08
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Here is what they look like:

Specialagentjim 15-01-2004 21:13
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mDuo13
I definitely agree with the idea of having a joystick with more buttons. After all, more buttons means more functions that the driver can handle by him/herself, instead of relying on a secondary driver to flip switches on request. And that means that the secondary driver can do more stuff, too. *grin*
Yeah! Are they trying to make my photographer give up his/her job and actually be forced to do something?? I hope not..

MV_Hirsch 15-01-2004 21:16
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I'm on a rookie team...1458. Do we have to use the akward 2 right handed joysticks by FIRST or are we able to use our own? Thanks,

Derek Hirsch
Team 1458

Bharat Nain 15-01-2004 21:40
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MV_Hirsch
I'm on a rookie team...1458. Do we have to use the akward 2 right handed joysticks by FIRST or are we able to use our own? Thanks,

Derek Hirsch
Team 1458
You can use your own. Dont forget to follow the rules in tha manual about replament and stuff, if any.

Sidney San Martín 20-01-2004 21:37
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I seem to remember hearing somewhere (no, I don't remember where) that FIRST was trying to discourage the use of a two-stick drive system this year ( :eek: ). They probably chose two right-handed sticks to say, "OK, this joystick is for driving, and this one is for something else. Not driving."
I'm not sure about this and they're not forbidding the "old" way (yet), but you never know.

Adam Shapiro 20-01-2004 21:53
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidtech
I seem to remember hearing somewhere (no, I don't remember where) that FIRST was trying to discourage the use of a two-stick drive system this year
I highly doubt FIRST would ever try to eliminate two-stick drive seeing as most drivers (myself included) much prefer it. It gives a large measure of control over the bot, I feel that the two right joysicks were probably just an oversight...

Jedi Padawan 20-01-2004 22:17
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I love the new joysticks for the right hand but I do miss the control of having a left hand joystick (for those of us driving tank like drive it makes it a hassle to program on one joystick) not to mention the fact that they don't auto center (which is a great advantage), But as usuall I am confident teams will be inventive/creative/"inspired" to invent/create a way to get around this... The only real problem that I can see with them is that they are both right handed (does this mean that the operator gets one and the driver gets one... maybe one for driving one for the arms???...) This will be fun it gives at least all the teams a new toy to play with. :D

Phish32786 20-01-2004 23:06
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
My only beef with them would have to them liek everyone else is saying Right hand only, and also one thing i would of really like to see is twisting of the joystick (tight turning maybe with out forward thrust?) I think that would be really cool.

Mike Calkins
Team 1188
Network/System Administrator

Astronouth7303 21-01-2004 07:32
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Why not use last year's sticks for the left?

Adam Shapiro 21-01-2004 20:17
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronouth7303
Why not use last year's sticks for the left?
Actually, We're considering using the old model for both drive sticks (unless we find something better).

sygterm 21-01-2004 20:19
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremy_Mc
Fun stuff for us programmers to play with!
:D :D

deltacoder1020 21-01-2004 21:28
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phish32786
(tight turning maybe with out forward thrust?) I think that would be really cool.
you could do this without joystick twisting - simply make it so that when you push the joystick full to the right or left, the appropriate motor is not simply full-stopped, but instead reversed - i.e. the first 3/4 of the joystick motion to the left slows the left motor, the last 1/4 speeds it up again, but in reverse. then simply push the joystick up and right or up and left to turn sharply.

Astronouth7303 21-01-2004 21:30
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Kesich
Those are null wheels. They adjust the offset and are used to null the joystick. What we're looking for is a wheel that gives its own analogue output, not just adjusts another.
Just wire your own. Look in the FRC default code doc for the tables. you can add 2 (Unless the D-pad uses them).

CyberWolf_22 21-01-2004 22:32
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
The directional pad on top of the joystick does take one of the analog inputs but there still is that second one you can use to make your wheel that was on last years joystick with a pot and a piece of wood or metal cut into a circle.

Astronouth7303 22-01-2004 07:30
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
To use a pot, all you need is to drill a hole. There's a litttle nut on top to attach it.

Corina Martinez 22-01-2004 09:46
Joysticks can we buy are own?
 
Can we buy are own joysticks or do we have to use the one's that FIRST gave use?

ShadowKnight 22-01-2004 10:04
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
you can buy your own ;)

ahecht 22-01-2004 15:44
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
It looks like the reason that FIRST went with the new sticks is that CH Products has discontinued the Flightstick. However, you can still buy the Flightstick Pro (the 4 button version of the Flightstick) for around $15 from places like PC Connection. I can't personally vouch that the quality of the Flightstick Pro is the same as the Flightstick, but it is ambidextrous and has been well reviewed.

For those of you who really want the old 2-button Flightstick, you can buy them for $30 from FlightSim Central.

ComputerGeek 22-01-2004 16:45
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
just to let you all know, the directional pads on the top of the new sticks are called hats
personally i think that the new ones should be used for things other than driving. that way drivers can still use 2 joystick driving.

Aignam 08-02-2004 14:28
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahecht
For those of you who really want the old 2-button Flightstick, you can buy them for $30 from FlightSim Central.
I can't find the old Flightsticks on there. Does anyone know where they are, or where I can get them?

edomus 08-02-2004 14:43
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aignam
I can't find the old Flightsticks on there. Does anyone know where they are, or where I can get them?

Looks like I got the last ones

Aignam 08-02-2004 15:30
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by edomus
Looks like I got the last ones
:mad:

Ryan M. 08-02-2004 16:19
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaOmega870
Is there any other way to adjust sensitivity?
Look at the thread, desenetizing joysticks, for more than you'll ever want to know about cutting down on the crazy sensetivity of the joysticks.

David Bryan 08-02-2004 18:04
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
The Joystick Does have p1_wheel but it only gives 5 values which we can use.
Leave centered p1_wheel = 45
push right = 202
push forward = 254
push left = 98
pull back = 149
These are approximate but you can make 4 decisions with these directions.
This assigned p1_wheel control is between p1_sw_aux1 and p1_sw_aux2.

:cool:
David Bryan
818

SeanCassidy 08-02-2004 18:10
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I wrote a function like this to find what buttons where what on the joystick (The same joystick first gave us.)

Code:
void Default_Routine(void)
{
  if(!p1_x)
    printf("p1_x\n");
  if(!p1_y)
    printf("p1_y\n");
  if(!p2_y)
    printf("p2_y\n");
  if(!p1_wheel)
    printf("p1_wheel\n");
  if(!p1_aux)
    printf("p1_aux\n");
  if(p1_sw_trig)
    printf("p1_sw_trig\n");
  if(p1_sw_top)
    printf("p1_sw_top\n");
  if(p1_sw_aux1)
    printf("p1_sw_aux1\n");
  if(p1_sw_aux2)
    printf("p1_sw_aux2\n");
}
What I couldn't find on the joystick themselves were p1_wheel, and p1_aux. Also, when I pressed the hat in different directions, nothing happened. Any ideas?

deltacoder1020 08-02-2004 19:21
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanCassidy
I wrote a function like this to find what buttons where what on the joystick (The same joystick first gave us.)

Code:
void Default_Routine(void)
{
  if(!p1_x)
    printf("p1_x\n");
  if(!p1_y)
    printf("p1_y\n");
  if(!p2_y)
    printf("p2_y\n");
  if(!p1_wheel)
    printf("p1_wheel\n");
  if(!p1_aux)
    printf("p1_aux\n");
  if(p1_sw_trig)
    printf("p1_sw_trig\n");
  if(p1_sw_top)
    printf("p1_sw_top\n");
  if(p1_sw_aux1)
    printf("p1_sw_aux1\n");
  if(p1_sw_aux2)
    printf("p1_sw_aux2\n");
}
What I couldn't find on the joystick themselves were p1_wheel, and p1_aux. Also, when I pressed the hat in different directions, nothing happened. Any ideas?
well, the hat control *should* be showing up as p1_wheel, and p1_aux is not used on the new joysticks.

also, most of the values are not boolean values - that is, you can't really use an if statement to check them. for instance, the wheel will never show up, because it is a analog value from 0-255, but in the case of the hat it is never 0 - it's neutral value is somewhat above zero. Same goes for the joystick x and y axis - they are analog values from 0-255.

Astronouth7303 08-02-2004 20:27
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I posted the masks earlier. Check those to read the hat.

Andy A. 08-02-2004 23:54
Re: New Joysticks...Good or Bad Choice by FIRST?
 
I posted a full explanation of what I'm about to suggest in the other joystick thread. I'll just refer to that instead of repeating my self.

Calibrate your victors to the joysticks before you do anything drastic with programing or filters. And calibrate them with out any such filters inplace.

It makes a world of diffrence.

-Andy A.


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