Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

"No loud music, audio systems, whistles, banging sticks, blow horns, etc. They interfere with announcements. They prevent teams from hearing important announcements, can be annoying, and can cause hearing loss."
-10-AttheEvents.pdf-


Ok. First off... yes... i AM from MOE 365... the team in Lime-green and Black that assaults the eyes and ears... or atleast we used to.

That aside... i wanted to know how many other students/teams feel that this rule will change the face of FIRST... whether it be in a good way or in a bad.

--------------
My thoughts:

FIRST competitions have always been high-energy. Lots of cheering and lots of spirit. Most teams who have been around a while have come-up with various noisemakers to facilitate team spirit and increase the amount of energy in the arena. Whether they be painted Cow-bells like T-Rex, Spirit Sticks like Diablo, or a set of Moe Sticks.

This new ruleing bans pretty much all noise makers. Excluding your voice and your hands. Keep in mind... it is common to cheer durring matches, and the two award sessions... which can seem to run long sometimes... although they are a big part of every event. And I always think it proper to cheer or bang some sticks for EVERYONE who wins an award at an event.

Now I may be speaking for myself when i say that my hands go numb after a while... and I can loose my voice quite quickly. So i forsee the total amount of cheering at competitions decreasing... thus affecting the energy in the arena... making it more like a science fair once the "rock concert" or "NCAA finals" element of the event is gone.

I can see FIRST's point about announcements and "hearing-loss" however, teams should be aware of when they are due on the field... It could also be argued that Rock Concerts cause hearing loss... but it is something you deal with when going to see a band. It has always been the same with First till now. (I know for a fact the MOE always brings plenty of ear-plugs to our events... and we give them out for FREE to whomever wants some... as we KNOW that we can be loud.)

I also wish to mention the fact that most teams are usually about 15-20 students. Only three are competing, and maybe five are in the pit. What are the other students to do? Looking back to my experieces as a student member of MOE... I know i spent my whole first year working on PR, noisemakers, and mascots (as i was too afraid to do anything overly mechanical at that point.) My second year i was on pit crew and build quite a bit for the robot... along with helping build the mascot and making some sticks. What are the less mechanicaly enclined to do at competitons? (since they are always trying to only have "needed" students in the pits to reduce crowding)

Noisemakers have always been a big part of All FIRST competitions... they kind of MAKE the atmosphere so full of excitement and energy that is equated with FIRST... and I dont want to see them go. I wouldn't want to be stuck sitting in the stands with sore hands and no voice for three days.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

no noise makers hrm..... i guess teams will have to change the way they chear at a comp. i can't blame FIRST for making such a ruling but seeing how these regionals have become louder i guess it will quite things down now but also have teams come up with a more innovative way on cheering at a comp.


If its for the better i'm all for it if the teams don't like the rule this yr they could always talk to FIRST about it at the end of the season so that they may better 2005 . I'll miss MOE's clapping sticks. Loud as they may be but at least they were unique and you knew what team was cheerin hehe ;) promise me you'll come up with something that will resember the MOEsticks. :]

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I think they've got this rule is pointed in the wrong direction. It's the volume of sound coming out of the stadium sound system that causes hearing loss and headaches, not the moe-sticks. Besides, Moe gives out earplugs!

JMHO.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I think they made this ruling after several teams started putting in "sound systems" in thier "carts" so that they could drown out the stuff FIRST was playing, I saw at least 2-4 teams last year with it and unfortunately it was worse than listening to the FIRST music b/c it was so loud, I love noisemakers (although my teamleader didn't like the idea about giving out whistles at competitions) I'm pretty sure it was meant to get rid of these "carts" and other things of that nature so that it didn't become impossible to hear in the pits (as if FIRST's music wasn't enough you have all these others playing) other than that I agree with them when they said "it makes it hard to hear announcements" if your in the back of the pits and your being qued then sometimes it's hard to even hear the announcer. I'm not sure they exactly meant to get rid of the PR items like the Moesticks but I'm pretty sure if they did it was to make the show more "audience friendly". :cool:

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

My personal feeling is that at every regional while explaining the game,
FIRST should have a "Silence Time" Notification.

Announcer: "When you hear THIS noise [points to DJ]
--- BLOOOOOOORRRRNNNKKKKKKK ---
Please refrain from using Banging Sticks, Musical Instruments, or any other noise-making devices."

A unique sound will do two things:
1) Allow everyone to know that an important announcement is coming.
2) Have those who need to listen able to listen.

Being that the audio in the pits is different from the audio for the field, the same sound, or a shorter sound could be performed to let people know that something is being announced, such as a list of teams being on deck. There were a few times when there was just general noise in the pits (Drills, people talking, robots running, etc.) that drowned out the sound of an annoucement. However, if I knew an announcement was coming I would have heard it. i.e. Waiting for team to be called for on-deck while making last minute repairs. (We ended up barely hearing the last call and made a bee-line for the staging area.. at Nationals. Quite the rush)


My feelings on the rule:
Pit and Arena:
No audio systems whereas the volume exceeds that of the FIRST equipment. (Random roaming judges etc could make this decision. The current rule says you can't even wear headphones to a CD Player [audio systems]).
This would include:
-Bullhorns
-Boom-box's on High Volume
-Cart's with speaker systems (Note: The few teams that I saw with these.. I did think they were a neat idea, but it was obnoxious when listening for an announcement and Techno or Rap starts to blare).

Pit Area:
No noise-making devices with no purpose other than noise. (This would allow drills and robots to be running, but not MOEsticks clapping or whistles blowing).
No team cheers/chants. (Such as the "Aaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!" x 100, or the like, but a (1, 2, 3, Yeah go team! in a huddle would be fine).
No musical instruments.


I like watching the different bands do the drum-off competition or things of that nature. I think it adds a very cool element to the competition.

This isn't just a robot competition, it's not robots driving robots. It's people driving robots, and teams of people who have put a lot into making the robots work. Cheering in the stands is a great way to ease the frustrations of the build season.

I just hope next years rules do not say:
<sarcasm>
All teams must bring enough duct tape to bind team members to seating, bind hands, and cover mouths. Bindings may only be removed during the lunch break, during awards ceremonies, or if on an approved Bathroom break. Complete silence will make everyone able to watch the competition and hear announcements.
</sarcasm>
When fun is outlawed, only outlaws will have fun.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I'm pretty sure this rule is meant to make the Pits more friendly for teams. It's just over generalized cause it's easier to ban all loud stuff then to tell teams not to use them in the Pits and then try to enforce that.

Arguments about teams knowing when they're up aside, the are always a rather lot of announcements in the Pits. Requests for parts, random information for teams, lots of useful stuff that can be drowned out. Also, nothing it more annoying than having to shout at someone two feet away for a wrench when you're hurrying to fix your bot, all cause a team is coming back from a winning match with loudspeakers, clackers and a drum line all going at once.

The rule is mostly to make it easier for teams to work in the Pits, it's just spilling over into the stands.

Edit:
I also personally dislike bands in the stands. I play music for a local, smaller 'bot competition, and nothing is more annoying than a band coming in and playing over the music I'm playing. FIRST has DJs and sound systems for a reason. I know they're great for the spirit of that particular team, but they don't do much for other teams and really annoy the DJ.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I can remember three years ago, when I first joined robotics, we were at our first regional, the first one I had ever been to. The team sitting in front of us decided to bring several band members along with them, and for the ENTIRE day of competition, they stood 2 rows in front of us banging mercilessly on these huge drums. After several hours of this, almost everyone in the area was getting annoyed. If you ask me, this didn't add anything to the spirit of the competition, it took away from it. Now, because of half a dozen kids banging drums all day, the hundreds of people sitting around them grew tired of it, got head aches, and couldn't enjoy the competition for themselves.

I have no problem with the idea of noise makers, but lets keep it reasonable. Use them when YOUR team is up, or when a team is receiving an award. Don't just bang on drums all day for the heck of it. In fact, no instrments or sound systems should be allowed (thats a rule now). If you want to blow little horns or kazoo's, I don't care. Just don't sit in the stands and play your trumpet. Do whats REASONABLE, but some people just don't know where to draw the line.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Ironically, this does mean no more use for the MOE earplugs....

I think that this is a "see how it works" rule. Personally, I missed the clap sticks, but banging on the bleachers I will not miss. To some degree, it's about making noise. I remember that I brought a pair of coconut shells to the Tunkhannok (222) off-season match, and one team had a large bell attached to their cart at the Philly regional last year. I'm not sure whether I will like or dislike this rule; we'll see after Regionals.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I noticed last year that the music didn't sound as load as the year before. Maybe it was because of where I was sitting, but sounded like FIRST was trying to take a step back from the noise.

You have to remember that FIRST is always trying to make comptetions more veiwer freindly. I don't doubt that this knew rule is just part of FIRSTs attempts to make the arena a more comfortable place for outsiders.

Every year I hear people explaining the game to people and always having to yell over the sound. Not mention that some veiwers are not nearly as fond of loud music as a gruop of teenagers.

Yeah, its great to cheer for your team, but can't we do so without scaring away spectators?

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Eh, I don't mind...

...I can yell. :cool:

"BEACH CITIES ROBOTICS!!! WOOHOO!!!" I can hear it now, LOL.

I can understand it though, at the L.A. regional there was a team would bring there school's marching band and they would play in the stands, personnally, I thought it was awesome, but it did interfere with the competition. If I remember right, a kid was standing next to them right when they were starting to a play a song, and correct me if im wrong, but the rumors were that the kid had some kind of mental desease. He freaked because it was REALLY LOUD, they had trombones and everything. I think the ambulence had to come. It was a couple years back. If i heard the story right, then the directors of the LA regional probably spread the word, which probably contributed to the new rules.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

The reason they are doing this is because some teams have abused sound systems. At competitions, I have found that the majority of teams are considerate. However, there there area handful who are not. They ruin it for us all.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I have several thoughts on this:

- I never have liked sound systems on team's war wagons - pit announcements usually are quiet and hard enough to hear when working on the robot.
- Eliminating noise in the pits takes away the spirit from teams like the Bomb Squad who (at least used to) have their entire team cheer its way to the field with the "Bomb Squad...Bomb Squad" chant.
- The FLL motto is "Sports for the Mind" and FRC is billed as the "NCAA of smarts." Both of those are sport related comparisons...and what do you find at sporting events? Music, noisemakers, and all that good stuff.
- On the same note, if people expect it to be a sporting event, they expect it to be loud. Have earplugs available at the door if you must...but if FIRST is worried about scaring away spectators with loudness, they've got their priorities mixed up.
- Live bands in the stand have been a bit annoying, IMHO. When you go to a game (HS, College, or Pro), you don't take your own pep-band, you let the hosting team take care of that.

I guess this would probably mean that the little "yeah" battle that we created on Hammond a couple years ago would be outlawed too, because that was pretty loud and we did it at the most random times and in the most random places. I guess if this is enforced, everyone will just have to adopt the "silent cheer" that Hammond came up with in 2001 (hands are waived back and forth).

Kev

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

My gut reaction is that FIRST should evaluate their own sound system before ruling on noisemakers. I find their "noise" much more irritating than that coming from noisemakers. By the end of the competition my head is throbbing from listening to their system and my voice nearly gone from trying to talk to someone standing no more than 2 ft away.

What's up with that?
 

I know FIRST wants to get the public more involved and attract more sponsors but I think they need to remeber who FIRST is for: the kids. To tell them to "tone it down" because some people don't enkoy their spirit is just plain lame. I think FIRST is making a terrible mistake. Kids like to have fun and if you take the fun out of FIRST then why in the world would they want to be involved in FIRST? This i similair to their 'no dancing" rule at the Rock n' Roll HOF party. Why invite them? Just tell them to stay in their hotel room and go to bed. FIRST needs to be careful not to start choking themselves to death with regualtions. Don't micromanage the kids.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

this rule, though i understand where its coming from and what it is supposed to eliminate, kind of irratates me. If FIRST is trying to take away noise makers and loud noises out of teams in the stands, well, that just wouldnt be a good move. My team went to the UTC hartford regional last year. We didnt cheer, adn me and my friend just ended up walking around the place all day, not paying attention or having any fun. At Nat's everyone changed their minds and decided to cheer. I mean we wouldnt shut up or sit down. Every second when a match wasnt being played we would be up cheering, dancing, etc. I had more fun in Houston than ive had in years. This is all because of the cheering and making urself noticable to other teams. If FISRT were to eliminate this part of the comp, i know alot of teams would be very angry.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Tom,

Cheering is awesome. FIRST wants you to cheer. They want you to be excited about your robot, your team, your friends and being involved.

There is however a line that in many people's minds has been crossed recently by teams with the use of noisemakers. There has been a trend where the word "spirit" had been morphed into "making noise". In an attempt to attract attention (including the attention of the judges granting the spirit award) teams have gotten louder than FIRST. That is bad.

In the pits, the need for teams and individuals to hear the announcer is VERY important so that the competition can procede safely and on schedule. In the competition area, the need for the audience to hear the play-by-play and explainations is VERY important -- especially in the year of an audience-friendlier-FIRST. There are many ways for a team to get their spirit noticed without making announcer-swamping noise.

So... bottom line... cheer like crazy -- practice your clapping and yelling and screaming -- make up cheers and cadences with your team... find creative ways to demonstrate your spirit... but please honor FIRST's desire and leave your noisemakers at home this year.

Also... just to make note of it... according to the dictionary...

Spirit, n.,

1. A particular mood or an emotional state characterized by vigor and animation: sang with spirit.
2. Strong loyalty or dedication: team spirit.

:)

Aidan

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

MOE sticks and noisemakers and noise and loudness and clappers and bullhorns and bells and whistles and so on and so forth are some of the defining elements of a FIRST competition, for me, anyways. This rule was made with nothing but good intentions, but I think it is just a tad bit ridiculous. I had no problem with hearing the announcer at the Chesapeake Regional, the New Jersey Regional, or Nationals.

There's no doubt in my mind that FIRST teams out there will "leave their noisemakers at home and honor FIRST's desire". I know FIRST teams will be able to show their spirit even through this rule. But I also think that perhaps this rule was overboard.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I have always felt that noisemakers are bordering on being obnoxious and tactless. They are distracting and sometimes I can not even hear people next to me. Even some sports orgainizations provide the same rule against using them. In fact, they provide a penalty for anyone that uses them. Whatever happened to clapping? I'm guessing that no one noticed this same rule last year.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Arg, we just finished building our cart with sound system in it. Last year we played our cart when going to the field (its easier to get people to move if they hear us coming) and while building. We mainly use our system during build season bc half of our machine tools are in the boiler room, and music makes it more tolorable. At the offical regionals we didn't play our system loud, but at the unoffical ones we let it go. Overall we respect all the teams in the pits and the announcements.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

last year at regional competetions, several teams had stereo systems... and they were usally asked to turn them off via. the PA. well these teams that had stereo systems turned them off, but eventually they would be booming their music again.

i'm predicting that PEOPLE WILL HAVE NOISEMAKERS in the stands this year... and even if they are asked to quit using them, they will resume using them after a while. even though this would violate "gracious professionalism," teams will still have noismakers in the stand. i feel that FIRST will really have to work hard in trying to enforce this rule, and after a while they may give up and allow them in the stands, and only in the stands.

personally, i feel that too much noise in the pits can get really annoying, but noisemaking in the stands adds another level of excitement and enjoyment for the viewers and operators. being a driver on my team, i really enjoyed it when people in the stands cheered as they called out our team number, and i'm sure other drivers/operators/human players/coaches also enjoyed being cheered for. as the cheering got louder, the excitement grew as well, and this is why i feel that noisemakers in the stands should be allowed (as long as they're kept with reason).

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Clapping still exists... but it gets tireing and dull after a while. As for the rules previously... (if i recall correctly) they were more to prevent damage to seating... some teams had jugs/poles that they would bang on the stands... leaving marks... and annoying the arena owners.


I agree.

I know that MOE, and all FIRST teams will remain spirited at competitions... and some people will still bring them anyways... but the sticks have always been a part of our team... and i dont understand how we can be "rewarded" last year for out spirit/image and specifically be targeted in a rule the next year. I hate to use the word "targeted" but it is true... if someone mentions banging sticks... you think of MOE. I mean there was a huge thread about the stick-napping... and they had a quote about banging MOE sticks in the FIRST Booklets they handed out at competitions.

I understand the banning of the speaker-carts.. as some teams played some rather loud music, but I guess I just dont get the banning of noisemakers... they make FIRST what it is.

I would not write off MOE handing out ear-plugs either... because without all the noisemakers to distract you... it will probably make the FIRST speakers seem all the more loud. As for the sticks... I plan to carry my lucky set from 2001 with me. Even if i dont get to clap them because of this new rule.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

[quote=DUCKY]"No loud music, audio systems, whistles, banging sticks, blow horns, etc. They interfere with announcements. They prevent teams from hearing important announcements, can be annoying, and can cause hearing loss."
-10-AttheEvents.pdf-

at first i thought it wus kinda weird but im completely happy about this..im totally for cheering and all but it can totally be done w/out those loud annoying noise makers and sticks sum teams hit together! ROCK ON F.I.R.S.T! now maybe ill keep my hearing untill im 25....welll thats still a maybe

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

The music in the pits from teams that have sound systems on their "carts" can be a little annoying, but to ban noisemakers that teams use while cheering on ther team is ridiculous. There is no way for teams to cheer for two days, without losing their voice. Even if they try to confiscate all the noisemakers, they are going to end up with a bunch of useless items (for them at least).

On the positive note, the teams with the sound systems on their carts provided entertainment during the 7-minute walk from the pits to the arena down in Houston.

Re: What's up with that?
 

Personally I don't have any trouble with the noise level at all. Though my experience is limited, having only been to Ramp Riot and one other competition whose name I forget, I find that the DJs at these events tend to go out of their way to dig up one hit wonders from the 90s, so anything that will make those songs inaudible is welcome. (I'm just commenting on stick and other manual noisemakers)
Obviously the announcers should be respected and whenever they are heard the clapping of sticks, etc. should cease, which it pretty much does anyway.
I am not commenting on the sound carts because I have no experience with them, though they seem to me to be an insult to the DJs almost equal to the one that I have already used in this post if used unnecessarily during competitions.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

There are only a few "noisy items" that I personally find annoying which are in the list below.
1. Carts with sound systems (can't hear myself think)
2. Bullhorns and those little pressurized canisters(my ear is still ringing from the last one that went off...)
3. "Shrill" whistles (again the ringing)
4. this may sound surprising but the music after the first day tends to be really really loud and get to where I have to scream at a teammate two feet away in order to get a tool. (this by the way is the music FIRST puts on) maybe it's just me but I usually end up wearing ear protection anyway without the extra "noisemakers" which only add to the problem. (by the way I am a DJ of sorts when I'm off FIRST season)
For me at least if your banging drum sticks in a rythym that doesn't really bug me, I mean if your just trying to show your spirit in a way that won't leave everybody with ears ringing or headaches that doesn't bug me, It's only when the "noisemakers" get louder than all of FIRST's already loud things that it becomes a problem. :cool:

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Personally, I like the idea of being able to sit in the stands without having my ears bleed.

But some things should still be allowed - it is, after all, FIRST.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

First of all, I really think the intention of this is to stop CONSTANT lound team annoyances, especially ones in the pits. Now, I really think FIRST needs to re-think their own sound levels first and also re-think speaker placement. Can't we have speakers in each of the corners of the pits and not just four in the front pointing at the pits blasting announcements?

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

We here at team 648 out of Sherrard Illinois and Davenport Iowa, are outraged by this recently posted rule. One of the most widely respected awards is the team spirit award. To take away the aspect of noise making, you take away excitement, the best way to release nervousness and our spirit. For anyone who has ever tried to cheer both days of competition leaves with blistered hands and strained vocal chords. Robotics is not a Rock Concert and following the "If it's too loud, you're too old!" concept, we agreed that this rule should be overturned. :mad:

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Every year this is brought up. If people can keep it at a nice level nobody would complain.

Our first cart/truck we use to pull our robot at the national

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robo..._Red_Truck.jpg

It had a nice truck air horn on it. This was put on because nobody would move and the walking space was very small. The radio was put to a level that only the pit people could hear.

Then we move up to bigger and better truck

http://www.valleytech.k12.ma.us/robo...s/roboti88.jpg

But we made sure that the noise level would never be high. If everybody could do that I do not think FIRST would have a problem with that. But teams just like being loud.

What is going on this year at the nationals, they said something about a parade? So wouldn't that make you go out and make a nice cart this year.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Keep in mind air horns havnt been alowd for a while, its just moe sticks now. And you can still cheer your heart out, and wave flags and stuff. My team was the one in annapolis with the overly large flag, and the 2 smaller ones. I think we sat just above and to the right of MOE. And MOE still have the large walking "miracle worker" puppet suit thing. And my team can still have "richie bot". hehehe :p :p

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Yeah go Richiebot!!! (AKA ME!!!) I think that the MOE stick should be banned i hated them because they would clap so loud whenever their team did good (which was often) and sometimes just out of randomness. I mean it sucked having them sit behing you.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Ah, yes. It was actually we - Team 217, back when we were the Macomb Knights - that got Air Horns banned back in 1999. That was because in Ypsilanti we brought about a dozen and laid them on every time we won a match ^_^. Good times. Very annoying when other teams caught on though ;-)

On the subject of whether the rule will stick, I predict that many teams will get away with noisemakers (shakers, MOEsticks, etc.) anyways, just because it's such a big part of the competitions. I do agree that the drum corps, the boombox-carts, and the like have to go, though.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

We dont realize it, but it is actually REALLY lound at the competitions. I know people who attended the competetions and need MOEs earplugs just for the music. And if the noisemakers have to go over that sound, it must be painful to them.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Well, I see some people are upset about not getting to use noisemakers. I really feel that if you want to get "Spirit" award or get noticed... do it yourself. That's one lesson I've learned from ComBBAT. Yes, I know the MOE clap, we all do... and yea, I will admit I will miss it. But... you still have hands. I know people can be drowned in our "Who dat BBAT? COMBBAT!" chant.. even though we have fewer people on our team than most teams have.

If your team really has the emotion and the spirit, you can be just as powerful without noisemakers. I know my team has, we've avoided the temptation to use noisemakers on many occasions... but you can still hear us cheering. I agree this will help the pit announcements. If teams want to cheer, they still can because that's not going to last too awful long. But with those speaker carts and such, those can cause quite a disruption.

I really hope to see that this will push teams to show their true spirit, and not need to use the assistance of noisemakers which make it easy. I know that after a competition I am on menthol-lyptus cough drops for a week.... but it's worth it. Bring out the true you, it'll be much better without the need for noisemakers :)

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Ok so accourding to this new rule there is more to it than no MOE sticks accourding to al the otherstuff they banned and you cant do i would almost perfer the MOE sticks over this new rule. I mean no food @ all and no banners or saving seats for your team. I have decided i hate the rule as a whole more than the MOE sticks but none the less i hate MOEsticks.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I have to say that I am definitely against this rule. Being from a team thats about as loud as their shirts, we've always been high energy and fun. I have really noticed though that since the transition from last year's season to the post season, teams have asked for other teams to quiet down. I'm not really sure in what other way(s), can we show excitement and support for our team.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Im fine with the noise restriction rule, but its the other section 10 rules that I HATE. No saving seats, no banners outside the pit, I assume that includes flags, no fundraising during the competition, no outside food or drink or candy... GRRRR.... :mad: :mad: :mad:

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

<SOAPBOX>
The no outside food bit is actually pretty standard for a lot of venues. Usually you can thank Aramark or some other catering service for that. As for candy... well candy is dangerous when people unthinkingly throw it into the crowds.

And saving seats? First off, they're asking teams to clear the pits as much as possible, so most of your team should be in the stands. If you need a few extra seats in the stands, just leave a few open in the middle of your group, and social dynamics will save the seats for you. Besides, there's two options. Either there are enough seats for everyone and you shouldn't have to save them, or there aren't enough seats for everyone and you should let other people sit down since they might have a round coming up.

And banners... Sponsors shell out large amounts of money to put on regionals, and I think they earn the right to not have to compete with other banners for just team sponsors. If it's a banner for just your team, well you should have enough spirit to stand out without it. And flags tend to block the view of people behind you, or worse the video crew behind you. I work scoring at Lonestar and I've seen it happen and it's just silly.

Mostly, I'm saying all these rules do make sense if you calm down a bit and look at them. They're intended to make the competitions more venue and audience friendly so FIRST will have an easier time expanding. They're not arbitrary and certainly not an attempt to crush team spirit, cause what would the point of that be? FIRST knows spirit is vital to the competition. If they didn't, they might've enacted MUCH more restrictive rules.
</SOAPBOX>

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Looking over the rules, I don't think FIRST banned clappers like the X-Cats have or Moe Sticks. Just bang sticks which damage the floor. FIRST had banned those before and I have seen teams still bring them to competitions.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I dont know Ed, I think the 2X4 clappers are being dragging to FIRST history this year. They are clearly talking about the noise level and possible hearing damage in seciton 10.

The clappers are cool. Bluelightning cloned them and brought them to Toronto last year. But I think FIRST is silencing the clappers :c(

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

we have a cool idea to still atract ppls attention without making noise... a stick with an array of 100+ leds that come on in different patterns and such.. that should be pretty cool i just gotta go down to radio shack and get some binary counter chips. (Note: These are also very useful if u have a member of the team who is always there for the fun stuff, but miraculously "dissapears" when u want him to do work... just get about 40 feet of duck tape and wrap it adound him.. ull have a 10 foot blinking weasel)

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

The banner rule was for those who attach them to the walls and cause damage. And most venues still alowed bottled water. And in certain regionals there were area wouldnt block views, like the one wall in annapolis or the top of the stands in richmond.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

.................................. I can't believe this rule... I really can't... I bet in 5 or 10 years they won't allow cheering or anything...

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

I have very mixed feelings about this ruling.

Last summer we approached Boomer McCloud and asked them to donate a sound system that we could use during competitions like many of the other teams had. They graciously provided us with a head unit, amp, speakers and wiring stuff. Some of you have seen this sound system since it's inception at the mini comps we went to this summer.
River Rage was the most memorable with the system cranked up at lunch time playing the chicken dance and many people jumping in on the field to do the chicken dance with us.

I understand FIRST's view of this problem, but I don't want this event turning into a "science fair" with a noise limit.

I do agree that at competitions it is hard to hear announcements sometimes with or without these sound systems playing in the background.

I also LOVE the idea of a certain audible tone playing over the announcement speakers before announcements are made. This would mean that everyone would stop what they were doing and actually listen to the announcements - important or not.

I remember two years ago at the NYC regional and that really annoying lady that made the announcements in the pits there. But you know what, she was lound and kind of obnoxious, but she did get the point across (most of the time lol)

The comparison to FIRST events to a sporting event in this particular area is false. In no sporting event there are no music allowed other than venue played competition music. While this may be a good idea for sporting events (which are mainly spectator sports, it is not the wisest descision for an event where most of the spectators are the one's who are also competing.

In closing I don't want to see it be so loud that you can't hear announcements in the pits, but I also feel it is impossible to put a noise limit on a competitive event where you have at least 1000 people in the venue. It just won't happen!! Don't make it as quiet as a "science fair" when it is not!

We need motivation which leads to energy which leads to the very competitve spirit that we all have come to love!

(BTW, all this is coming from the person who designed and built a FIRST inspired subwoofer box for his car!! ME!! :D :D )

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Personally, I see no problem with this rule - I like the idea of being about to have a conversation at a robotics competition without shouting, and having things a bit more civil and under control than unreasonable levels of sound. Teams can have spirit without making ears bleed.

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

We at team 108 has a cart with a sound system on it. Last year we used it for letting people know that our robot is coming past (so we dont have to scream). Does the rule mean this is not allowed?

Re: Music / Noise "Restrictions"
 

Team spirt does not bother me, however the making of noise just to make noise and draw attention to yourself is unnesisry. That being said the noise level comming out of the first speakers was also unnessisaraly high. Finaly the no food or drink in the arena rule is understandable, but last year our team had pop and sandwich stuff in the bus in the parking lot and they told us that we could not even eat out there. I would not mind buying lunch at the consesion stands but seven dollers for a hot dog is highway robbery. :mad: