Picking Drivers?
 

How do you pick your drivers? I know this is asked about 20 times every season but I forgot, lol, so umm how do you?

I was thinking that the driver should be the driver from last year but I don't know. I also thought that most team's drivers are from there building department.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

The team mentors vote to choose who go to the field...based on er....whatever they choose to base it on. I think some based it on skillz and others based it on time commited and gp. And seniority take some effect. It seemed to make a good balance of things and the mentor are usually the least bias you can get. The students would have to much trouble trying to choose in most cases.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Straight out of the sheet posted on the whiteboard stating the requirement's for tonight's driver [and other position] tryouts... here's the excerpt for driver tryouts. Pretty much the same as last year:

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Our team has tryouts. After the robot is pretty much complete, we have a time where each person who wants to can drive the robot around to do a task. Some of the mentors watch and the person with the most skill gets to be the primary driver.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

On 229 we have a driver training handbook written by John and revised last year by Chris. I didn't feel the need to really revise any of it this year so it has remained unchanged so far.
http://www.team229.org/resources/single/110
Such as with all the documentation on our website, feel free to use this handbook or modify it to fit your needs as long as due credit is given to the makers.

Beginning the year who ever is elected strategy head starts training a group of any high schoolers who want to drive, or operate, and has them drive around old robots just to get the hang of driving a robot around. Then when the real season comes around we do some driver training with the fall drivebase on the new field with a practice mechanism while the new drive base is being made and then they continue to drive the new drive base up untill shipping. About the beginning of week 5 I made the decission on who the driver, operator, human player, and all purpose backup is. Now it is up to our field coach, John, to finish thier training with more specific match strategies. The driver selection system works out very well and you end up with competition drivers who have a lot of practice with the robot before the first regional.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

It is not easy to be able to pick a driver for your team. Either someone has the goods or they do not. A driver will make or break how well your robot does. For example i do not think anyone else could have driven our 2003 robot better then steve. If it was not for his quick thinking and great handleing of the robot we would not have done as well as we did. This year was hard on us becasue we had to pick a new driver and train him not to over drive the robot. I strongly feel if you want someone that can handle the pressure of driving your driver needs to be picked the year before and have him or her drive all the time (mini comps) and durning demos to get used to driving at weird angles. The driver should know ever peice of the robot (does not mean he is the one fixing it) and hows it handles, kinda like your own personal car (ex: ac does not work you need a screw driver to open you car door) DO NOT BE PC CORRECT 1 driver :ahh:. I know everone wants to drive but it does not work. Just look at football when there is a qb conterversy it divids a team and nothing gets done.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

don't get too wrapped up in seniority....yeah it is a compliment and all, but if you make your drivers only seniors then the next year you have no driving experience what-so-ever....

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

That is the way my high school team did driver picking. I tend to agree with your concern somewhat. The argument can be looked at from both sides with the issue of senior driving privledge. It is more fair if your teams goal is to let the job go around more but still be competitive year to year because you have one driver but never switch in the same season. You also have off-seasons to train new drivers the next year. The way we chose to run things in 03 on team 263 was but the two potential drivers each driving a robot in Bash 02' and see how they do and to let them get some competition experiance. The method ended up working out but it only works if you have talented seniors, which you don't always end up with.

In favor of a tenured younger driver, you only have to completely retrain a new one every few years, and then thier 2nd or 3rd driving season has potential to be much better than the previous. Up here on 229 we do not pick drivers based on seniority, the decission is purely on skill. Our 4 drive team members are 3 juniors and 1 freshman. 2 of the juniors had been on the drive team in 2003 as well. In all, I would suggest to pick talent over seniority, just as with your robot you would pick function over form when designing. Each team needs to make the decission for themselves on how they want to select thier drivers.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

To elaborate on what Rob said...
The actual decision isn't completely based on driver (robot use) skill. There are many other things that need to be taken into account, such as maturity, calmness under pressure, responsibility (and many more). The team drivers are often the most visible representatives of the team, and should be chosen as such. Actual robot skill is almost secondary, and can be learned... maturity on the other hand, is more difficult learn.

We take great pride in fielding excellent drive teams, I am excited to see how this year's group (GREAT bunch of kids) holds up.

Hopefully by nationals this rookie group will be running like a swiss watch.

JVN

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

this is what i agree with most. above all...your driver, HP, robot contoller and coach need to be able to communicate with each other. a lot of times the HP can get a better view of the field than the driver. also, you need people who can take and give instruction to other teams.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

I agree with Collin and John and a few others.

Maturity is the key. Matches don't always go as expected, partners don't always do what you agreed on or what they said they would do, etc.
You need someone who can work under the pressure, stay under control and keep things moving. The two minute match is not for the timid.

Our drivers are usually also our captains, but that is not an absolute. The reason it that the captains are usually most experienced overall, learn and know the strategy, and can communicate well with other teams. The driver is the leader out there - captains are usually good leaders.

We use the out of season events for training / selecting new drivers.

I think one secret for solid performance is a consistent team on the field.
The four need to learn to communicate and work together, know what to expect of each other, and learn to trust each others judgement and ability. Rotating several peple in and out adds to confusion and leads to mistakes.\

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Our team has a panel of 3-4 people, including 1-2 mentors, a graphics team member, and a leadership member.

They observe everyone who wants to drive and operate. Their decision is based upon skills and rules knowledge. The human player is choosen based on shooting consistency.

Last year we had a Freshman as our primary driver (granted he was short, so it was hard to see across the field, but he did a great job!)

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

We setup a driving course and use the past years robot. Each person that signs up or gets voulenteered will run the course and be judged in several areas like; controll, mistakes, damage, following directions from a mentor and fellow driver, and completion of each objective, oh yeah and in the fastest time with the fewest mistakes.
This years robot needed two drivers, one for the robot and one for the arm. so the best driver from the time trials drove the robot and I drove the arms since I played the biggest role in designing the arms, and communicated well with the driver.
We also scout talent at the off season events so we let some mature freshmen have thier take with a skilled driver by thier side.(just in case)
We also try to find time for other vetrens who would like to drive but didn't get a chance to.
All of these things go into the selection of our drivers.
By the way it is also good to have a back up team ready to step in in case another VCU happens. Or the driver is MIA.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

us... well.....we only had maybe 4 guys who worked on the robot period.
and then 1 didnt want to do anything at the field, 1 wanted to shoot baskets...and he was amazing at it.. and then the remaining 2 we just agreed. and we did pretty horrible.... well... we had 0 practice time. because we just got it driving maybe the day before shipping, and then we had to lose weight

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

On our team we have performance tryouts (show how well you can actually perform the task), and a written test. Those who score the best on those two things (plus the mentors know that they're good kids who'll actually listen in the heat of the game) become the year's drive team.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

We sorta knew who the drivers would be at the beggining. All Seniors! :ahh:
75% of our team are seniors :ahh: :ahh:
:ahh: :ahh:

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

We had planned on having driver training and tryouts, but we didn't have much of a complete robot that was drivable until near the end, so we didn't get any time. Thus two of the girls on our team volunteered and did a pretty good job (one was my friend, the other my sister). Then I was the coach mostly because of seniority and then we had primary and secondary Human Players who were trained and selected pretty much during the first week of build period only. Next year, however, we will definitely have driver training and tryouts.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

We had planned to have tryouts as well, but of course we didn't finish in time to do this, so the two students that stayed 'til midnight when the drive system was complete and tested it out ended up being our two drivers (one for each regional). Our programmer was the other operator, since he was the only familiar with how the controls were programmed. For the human player, we had three students practicing for days / weeks and they rotated in for different matches. We also rotated in different coaches. It worked out fairly well because many students were involved and our robot wasn't working that great, so we knew we weren't contending for the top spots.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

we had a very wreckless and agressive driver at the beginning of the season. he had been practicing with stack attack, where this was benificial, so we figured he would be good. however, with the human player setup, where the human players reached into those barred areas, it was too dangerous to have an agressive driver. he accidentally entered the player station a couple times and we immediately pulled him because we wanted to keep the game safe. our new driver is more controlled and very safe. so it really depends on the nature of the game. some people are good in some games, while others are good in others. few people are good at any kind of game (steve cosgrove is!) and the driver should be chosen based on the game, not just their general skill

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Im not too sure how we pick our drivers, but like others have said the best way to go about picking a driver should be picking who can drive the bot in the way it needs to be driven, paring up a aggressive driver with a fragile bot dosent often turn out well, and visa versa.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

On Team 1, we have tryouts for those who want to be driver/operator. When we have it narrowed down to two people, each person's position as either driver or operator is selected by his or her ability with the separate types of tasks.

On Team 573, the driver is usually selected based on the person who's been on the team the longest. It is seniority, in a way, but the driver, in most instances, has had practice with FIRST and OCCRA robots through his or her years, and therefore has the ability to drive.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

This year, it was the two guys who were the big-time builders. On top of this, neither of them managed to take out any tables or get tackled with the robot. I guess that was our criteria.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

I was the driver for our team. I was chosen becuase I was a senior and because I was working on the drive train and new how to control the robot. We chose our driver based on who works on the drive train and who works the hardest on the team. Usually it is not base on seniority

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Supposedly, I'm the driver (or co-driver) this year. Basically, our drivers last year were seniors so they said "let's get some new drivers! hey karen, why dont you be a driver! and you too, liz!" so now we seem to be the drivers...funny, they did the same thing with the human players....

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Seniority should definetly not be used to consider a driver, well at least in my opinion.

For our team, we had "Driver trails" where anyone who wanted to drive showed up,a nd we practiced. We also try out different combinations of drivers during off-season comps.

I was chosen for driver because of my skill, and calmness under pressure. Our controler is my twin brother, which actually works out really well, because we obviously know how to work together (we've been doing so for the last 16 years), and because we see each other every day. So basically, if you have a set of twins on your team, try them out :D

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Yea, we do the whole try out thing. Basically we bring all of our rookies to an off season, and before we get there the question is asked, "Who wants to drive?" At that point anyone who has ever wanted to drive gets the chance to "sign up". From there, the "drivers" are given a match that they will be driving in, and whoever knows the most about the controls (last years driver/ operator) shows everyone what they are doing. It's easy to see then and there who has skill and who doesn't, and who has the calmness under pressure or not.
Other than that, it's the typical try outs in the garage, running around obstacles with a robot. :ahh:

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

We give a lot of students the chance to drive at the IRI and we judge from there. What do I look for in a driver?

1. Cool under pressure.

2. Someone that will stick to the plan and not get caught up in the excitement or smash'em up.

3. Someone that can take a butt chew-in after the match and not be crushed.

4. Someone that will drive the robot all out.

5. Someone that realizes that the scouts are watching every match, even the practices.

Everyone thinks that the video game player is who you go after but I think you have to have an athletic and strategic mind. Also the key is consistency. Start young drivers out and stick with them their Jr. and Sr. years. I go after Sophomores and Freshmen and stick with them once I can trust them.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

The people who want to be drivers are the last people you should allow to be drivers.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

I couldn't disagree with you more. I wanted to be a driver, and i turned out to be the best that tried out. Would you rather be stuck doing something you dont want to do? didnt think so.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Was everyone required to try out? Then how do you know you were the best?

Perhaps some rephrasing is in order.What I mean to say is the people who get all in a tizzy about driving are not the people you want driving. What you need is the person who doesn't really want to be driver, but won't cave under pressure or loath the assignment. They should be able to calmy and quickly execute the instructions of your strategist.

Basically, if you've got a good robot, it's intuitive enough that anyone can drive it, so why give it to some giddy exciteable person whose clamoring for the job?

Oh, and even though I have zero evidence to back this up, I'd tend to lean towards female drivers.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

you bolded my answer. I was the best person for the job that wanted to drive. I know this because they picked me for the position and told me that.

i still disagree with you, i think anyone who wants to drive is eligible for the job, not someone who doesnt want to do it.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

I bolded your answer for a reason. You were the best person that tried out, and my personal thinking on the matter is that often the good people are the ones who don't try out.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

so how exactly does your team pick drivers then?

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Last year only one person didn't refuse, he drove. If we ever needed a system, I'd make tryouts mandatory for all robotics team students and do them in front of the whole school at an assembly (to simulate the pressure of competition). Have an obstacle course that each student runs and whoever has the best time is the driver. If that driver is deemed uncommitted to the team, they are removed from the team and the next best person becomes driver. The only problem would be convincing the administration to have the assembly...

If we could pull it off though it would have the pleaseant side effect of raising schoolwide enthusiasm for FIRST.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

for the last year one person on our team has done all the driving at sponsors and stuff, and they have the best handling of the robot, as when he lets someone else drive they tend to go a bit erm,, erratic lol... they are also the "senior" builder, and knows the robot pretty well. Unfortunetly, being in
england, we have only got students from 2years, so he will be leaving next year . . . . .
i think the best thing to do is to get people who want to do it to all have a go with the robot, and let them get used to the controls. then the best people can drive, and the others can do their other jobs.. .. .. .. ..

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Yah we have tryouts. Basically based on who is the best driver and human player. lol
-Court-

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Quoted and bolded. Clearly there are other factors that go into the assignment of the driver role, but this one is a big one for me. As an on-field coach, I want a driver with that good old killer instinct. In the past I've told my drivers the following, "It was the design team's job to design a robust robot. It's the pit crew's job to fix the robot if the design team didn't hit the mark. It's our job to put forth our very best competitive effort. Don't worry about breaking the robot!"

-Joel

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

First, I don't understand why you'd make every single student on the team be required to try out for driveteam roles. As some have said, not everyone WANTS to be on the driveteam. Some are much better and comfortable as part of the design, build, debug, fix, etc parts of the team. Why would anyone want to force them to do something they don't want to? As it is, FIRST is mainly a voluntary organization.
Just because someone doesn't want to be on the driveteam, doesn't mean they're not committed. So you're saying that if a forced student doesn't do well on an obstacle course, they should be assumed uncommitted, and kicked off the team? Do you mean, team in general, or just drive team?

I think there's a certain point to which you can "strongly encourage" some students to try out for driveteam roles, even if they're seemingly uninterested. But, if a student blantantly is not interested in driving, then why waste yours and their time? If you see even a little bit of interest, you can strongly encourage them to go for it... I would think most teams encourage all their students to try out to begin with, but they don't force them. Just doesn't make sense to me to make that type of thing mandatory. But that's my opinion.

Our team asks the team who's interested in these roles, and many of them want to try out.. So we have different types of tests using the game's features, and based on many things, we narrow it down to a couple people per position. We normally have each person try out during our first regional as well, and then try to narrow it down to 1 per position for second regional and Nationals. Works out pretty good.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

On a successful team, some people are going to have to do some things that they don't want to. If your best driver happens to be someone who is reluctant to undertake the role and therefore does not try out, you would never know who your best driver is.

As a result of putting your third, fourth, fifth best person into the driver role, all of the hours of work and sacrifice that the rest of the team has made may come to nothing.

Ideally, you will put people where they are best suited, by self-interest, skill, and temperament. However, there will be cases where people have to suck it in and do what's best for the team.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

thank you to JVN and all his cohorts on team 229 for putting out such a valuable document. i think team 48 may adapt and use this handbook for the 2005 season and hopefully many more to come. Thanks again JVN for all your great advice :D

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

I guess I don't agree, but we all have our own opinions. I think if someone is going to be so extremely good at something that they're the "best", they'd have some interest in doing it. As a coach, I'd think I'd rather have an enthusiastic driveteam that may be third or fourth best, who can learn and become better, rather than a driveteam that is forced into it. I think the "best" driver has the technical characteristics, PLUS the "want" to do it. I guess the definition of "best" varies, and I don't agree that all those long hours of work and sacrifice may come to "nothing" as a result of ANY driver you choose.

I think you are right in that for a successful team, there are jobs that some people might have to do, even though they don't like it. However, I don't think that driveteam roles are included in that. For them to "suck it in" and do what's best for the team, implies that winning is most important and the "best" driver is the only one that can lead to victory.

So anyway, I think having voluntary try-outs for any and all students is a pretty good setup. There are many factors that ultimately come into the final decisions, but I think it can be open to everyone who wants to try and they should be encouraged to do so. Each team has different ways of doing it, and it may take a few years to figure out what works best.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

If that kid who might have the best skill (who didn't want to drive) ends up as your driver, still with the frame of mind that they don't want to do it, that will lead to the team's downfall...

I sure as heck wouldn't want someone on my drive team who didn't want to be there...it will cost you in the long run, especially down the stretch in elimination matches where concentration is key.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

our drivers are picked because of ablility-- they know how to drive the robot well during the heat of competition and can make good judgement calls

we group up our drivers and operators at competitions and see how they perform-- in the end those that drive know who's better and will step down and will help our team win--and if that perchance doesn't happen the team comes together to decide and the mentor give their input what they see on the side-- we like to pair the driver and operator that work well together too that is important

it's really a hard choice to do-- we don't get that many people that want to drive about a 3 or so drivers and operators each-- but it's all good

funny though some ppl just make great drivers and other well aren't like me--but that's alright because we all do our part to make the team great

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

As Amy said, FIRST is voluntary. The students on your team aren't there because they are forced to; (well, I hope they weren't forced) they're there because they enjoy it. If you make them do something they don't want to do, do you think they're really going to have fun with FIRST? Some may just quit right then, others (I'd be one of them) wouldn't come back to your team next year, maybe I'd never be in FIRST again.

Yeah, sure, someone who doesn't want to be a driver may be the best, but does it matter? The point of FIRST isn't winning the regional champion or national champion trophy. The point of FIRST, at least in my humble opinion, is to expose students to engineering. I learned a lot from my first year with FIRST and I hope that I'll learn even more this year.

What I'm saying is that you don't need to have the "best driver" on the team be your driver to make the season great. It's what you try, not what you accomplish.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

I think the most important thing Fster a good robot and good stragity. is a Good driver i mean the driver's and operator's are the most important of the robot. be it programing or humans like myself. But i also agree that a Driver can be the best in the worls but can be a horible teammate. I mean durring a competitoon He or she has to be ddicated to that competition. they cant be showing up late to matches (Too Often :Cough Cough: ) a driver had to know the game like he was the one who designed it. and must have most importantly is Practice.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

If you reread my quote, I said that you need to identify who your best candidates for driver are, not that you force them to undertake the role.

A person who is coerced into undertaking any role on a team is likely to have a stinky attitude and perform more poorly in that role than someone who approaches it with a good attitude.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

I need to change my signature quote...

"Do or do not. There is no 'try.'"
-Yoda

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Ok, ok, whatever.

What I was saying was that if you give your best effort and fail, you're better off in the long run than having only put in half effort, even if he was "more successful" than you. In my opinion anyway.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

We don't really have tryouts because not very many people want to drive the robot. The ones that do want to drive just practice a little and whoever does best gets to drive. But it is still a good idea to have one or two backup drivers and also let them practice so if they are needed at the competition (VCU outbreak - our shooter got sick, but not the driver) they won't be so rusty.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

I think that the most important part of your DT is the coach. End of story. Having a good coach makes it easy, and just teach the drivcers to work well with the coach. Our team has decided that it is the responsibility of the drivers to listen to what the caoch tells them to do, but still to take initaitive. We thus decided that it is also important that the caoch understnds that it is their responsibility to have all the strategies down cold. In our system, the coach is also responsible for what happens in the match, so they get the scrutiny from the mentors and the rest of the team. I think that this has proven to be an extremely efficient system, and i hope that you consider this sort of idea in DT construction.

Also, one of the most important things about your DT is unity. If the DT doesnt feel like they are "one", or they let conflict to come between them, it leads to a tough season. Make sure that the Dt can work together, and are interested in doing what they do.

Hope this makes sense...

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

i think, however you choose to pick your drivers, that the driver and the operater should get along. If the driver and the operater dont like one another but were the best the job, they might not have the same determination and focus. Say one of them messes up and your team looses a match, you could end up with the two argueing for the rest of the competition. so however u pick'em just make sure that they will get along.

Re: Picking Drivers?
 

Definitely, but try to have the strongest DT that you can, as long as what you say applies (that the driver and operator get along).