What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

I have noticed a trend this year among robots- many are designed to achieve some aspect of this year's game. As this years game has rather demanding obstacles (steps, bar), the design those teams have are actually a disability in the main battlefield. (Example- huge wheels, drivetrain designed to go up steps, high center of gravity for hanging mechanism/ball picker, all of which can sacrifice speed/torque/center of gravity) I was just wondering what your team sacrificed to achieve your goal in this year's game, and how you plan to overcome that sacrifice..

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

we didnt really sacrifice anything...if all works out...we can do everything. Center of gravity is not a problem. If we get flipped be instantly can right ourselves. We should be able to hang, climb, manipulate the 2x, and heard. If anything, we did not focus on herding

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

We sacrificed our need to do everything. We used to always try and build a bot that does everything, but this year (and last year) we chose to build a bot that does one thing well, and have had much more success.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Last year we did everything and also had success

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

In previous years, I've learned that it's nearly impossible to be able to do everything, and harder to do them all well. Last year was an exception, of course, because there really wasn't that much to do (stack, knock down boxes, stay on ramp, effective autonomous - and even stacking was nulled)

So in order to be a good bot, it's best to do just one thing, and do it well. Ultimately, the winners are the alliances that have one robot do only one thing, and the other do only one other thing. 2002 Ex: One bot controls goals, and the other bot fills them with balls.


Back to the main thread topic, one thing our team sacrificed was the need to have a fancy, complicated robot. It's much simpler than in previous years, which should help us in the long run. A simple design decreases the chance of finding unforeseen problems that we have to fix. :)

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

we originally had a bot that could do everything, but we had to sacrifice the ability to get on the platform because of weight issues. we can still hang from the carpet though, so i hope it won't hurt us too badly.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

You can never make your robot into a 'swiss army knife' (essentially a robot that does everything). Yes, it may be able to do certain (or all) things, but it will not be proficient at any of these tasks, which is why you must have a primary task that you want your robot to be exemplarily phenomenal. So every year, you should focus your robot to do one thing and that thing extremely well. So as a team, you guys (as an example) have to decide if you want to be the best ball-herding robot, or the best bar-hanging robot, and what is the team going to do to make that idea, that dream, a reality.

In other words, our team sacrificed a lot in order to be the best at what we believe we do well.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Let's see...

Last year we sacrificed driving for ... well, just sitting there and not driving. Turns out that wasn't such a good idea! So this year we decided not to do that again. :)

We willingly sacrificed treads for wheels (yeah!!!).

We willingly sacrificed sleep to finish the robot (almost - the day isn't over yet)...

We willingly sacrificed our sanity to allow several members of the team to stay on...

We willingly sacrificed our home lives, free time with our families, several assignments at work, grades at school, personal hygene, tools from our shop, money from our pockets, any semblance of a nutritious diet, all forms of an ordered lifestyle, and endless hours in the robot shop, all to build a team that quickly became "family"...

and finally - I willingly sacrificed my humility and self-respect for a box of Krispy Kreme donuts.

-dave

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Dave,

I think this might be the time to bring back your description of Krispy Kreme donuts for all the new members of the CD Family.

Ken Loyd
Team 64

PS. Any chance of seeing you in Phoenix for the Reginal?

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

With only 6 weeks for the Design/Build/Test, you can do it all, just not well.

Given enough time you can
1. Drive extremely well.
2. Manipulate objects extremely well.
3. Climb extremely well.
4. Lift/Hoist extremely well.

I think the secret is to, decide what you want to do,
Design a solution "that meets the needs" (not exceeds)
Build it
Test it
Fine tune it for performance when you have time.

If you weant to do it all the "extremely well's" will by default drop to "just meets, but does the job"

Just my 2 cents.

Phil

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

We willingly sacrificed climbing onto the platform, but we should still be able to hang from the carpet.

As for doing everything, it is usually impossible. The key is to identify the tasks that aren't worth the effort to design a mechanism for. For example, stacking in 2003 and picking up the small balls that were on the field in 2001.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Herding, that's basically the only thing my team sacrificed. We figured it wouldn't be a deciding factor, and from the looks of the scrimages, it doesn't seem to be. It's the year of the hanging it looks like, and luckily we it with ease. Just my 2 cents. :)

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

We sacrificed sleep and a lot of our time in the preseason. We took a risk and laid out/built our drive train before the kickoff. That's why we're not stressed now and happily packed it into it's brand new, pretty painted crate tonight. We actually spent a lot of time on... i guess it would be... public appeal. It's quite shiny and our cart matches our crate which has hand painted detailed flames. We really haven't had much to do except having everybody drive at least once, messing with different programming (Making it more efficient to switch) and making it, as I say, pretty! This is the first year we're not stressed with weight. We're actually a tad under.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Yes, it's shiny because I wound up polishing/compounding almost every main part on our bot this year on what seemed like a weekly basis. It's always satisfying when you come back covered in compound after a hard long night.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

we couldnt decide what we wanted to sacrifice.. so we made all different stuff to do everything, and we're gonna decide what looks best at regionals.. (8 arms in the crate baby)

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Everyone on our team is worried about our seemingly high center of gravity. It's been a long time since we build a robot with a high center of gravity (not since 2000, but we all know how that worked out..) and we're generally worried about tipping. Theoretically, if our arm is in the closed position during a fall, we should be able to push ourselves back up and keep on driving. We'll see.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

We passed on the ball corral system but our arms make for good impromtu ball corrals.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

:eek: If this is what you actually did, you took quite a risk. Check robot section 5.2.5, R09. "Teams must fabricate and/or assemble all custom parts and assembled mechanisms on the robot by the 2004 team after the start of the Kick-off."

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Oh my Gosh.........18 pounds!

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Our robot did not sacrifice much of anything, and we can do everything well. It is possible to do many things well if you have the right will to do it. Set a goal, then figure out how to do it, don't just dismiss something because at first it may seem complex. Remember for every complex problem there is a simple, elegant answer that performs exceptionally well.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Isn't that against the rules?
Thought you were not to design/build anything prior to kick-off.
If that's the case you will have a hard time moving your implements around the field without a drivetrain.....


Phil

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Uh, yeah, guys, you can't do that. That's VERY illegal to the nth degree. :eek: Unless you said something wrong....

As for Dave Lavery and his KK.... lets go back one year to the 2003 VCU Regional....

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

I think it is ok to design something before the kickoff, as long as every part of the bot has been built after it. I even believe that (practically) testing ideas in the off-season is ok - again, as long as none of those parts make it onto to competition bot (unlike the ideas). Otherwise you'd have to empty your brain of any memories from previous year's designs, which is difficult to do.

Sacrifice: We sacrificed hanging and climbing, and instead decided that control of the small balls is cruical. After all, if we manage to steal all the competitor's balls, they can get 100 pts at max. get 11 of those balls into a goal, and cap it - there we go!

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Heh... we currently sacrificed.... our drivetrain. We are capable of moving..... in a straight line.... very slowly..... If we try to turn, we get loads of nasty grinding noises as one of our eight chains self destructs.... However, we have a quick fix in mind, and all the parts are ready to go, as soon as we get to a comp, we think we can fix it.... We think. We tried a little more than we have ever done before this year, and it paid off handsomely, except when it comes to our drivetrain. Live and learn, I suppose. See you all at comp!

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

the only thing we sacrificed is herding balls well the front of our robot will do it but we dont have a specific thing for it. we didnt sacrfice anythign on ground clearance our robot sits lower then any other of our past year robots 1' in of the ground but we can still get up the 6 in step

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

To clarify...

We didn't actually build it. No metal working was done. No machining, nothing. We thought about it, drew plans, etc. No actual building. Slip of the fingers. Sorry if that came out differently than it really was.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

We Sacrified too much time developing and agreeing on a strategy, which, in the end, we weren't able to accomplish due to too much time spent developing and agreeing on a strategy.
....

sooooo.... due to weight we changed the manipulator designs at the last minute. Our drive system, electronics (with battery), and frame weigh a combined 97 pounds (without skins). Our old manipulator weighed 31 pounds, deweighted, and it was not in complete working order. We COULD have put it on, but it would have been very difficult and time-consuming to remove weight from the rest of the robot.

So we went with something more simple that seems to be good to go, but we didn't get any practice time with it. We do know we can grab and hang, though, and get rid of 2x balls... oh, and we're annoyingly fast and versatile on the field. heh, we find that climbing the 6" platform is significantly easier than taking the stairs.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Well.. At first we decided to sacrifice hanging. However the chasis was still made to be able to climb the platform. We spent the majority of the 6 weeks building and designing the 2x ball handler. In the end, the night before our scrimmage we added the hook that was designed a week prior, and tested the hook out at the scrimmage. So it would turn out that the hook worked better then the 2x ball handler! Since then we replaced our "gripping tongs" with different grippers that work better. So I'm not sured what we sacrificed all together, we can do pracitly everything on the field, but what we do best is hanging. :cool: And the one thing we concentrated on the most is 2x ball handler.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

we sacrificed being able to go up the 6'' platforms.. took off our tread subsystem after we learned it hurt us more than aided us.. we'd rather go with a low drivetrain instead of having something sticking out at risk of flipping.

the second major sacrifice we made was picking up the 2x balls- we can stuff them in and push them out, but can't actually grab them. Instead we focused on the 2x balls' smaller cousin.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Well, we decide to pass on manipulation of the 2X balls. (as well as the 10 point balls)

Out main attention is to hanging, and a strong/fast drivetrain.

The idea is to build a solid base deisign for future years. Yes, this is perhaps NOT the srt of game that requires powerful, but THIS was the year for us to do that work.

I hope to see some of you at the Manchester NH BAE Regionals! :ahh:

-Quentin

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

To be honest, this year our team did not give up that much functionally. Using custom gear boxes and wheels, pneumatics for our sub - assemblies, and we tried using the KISS principle as much as we could.
We did almost sacrifice goal grabbing, but were able to squeeze it on in the end. In the 2000 competition we were able to hang from the bar, and this we cannot.

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

IT'S SOUL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yikes:

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

At first, it was designed to be narrow (22 inches) to go up the stairs with a 3 inch ground clearance for the stars also. There were to be "outriggers" to prevent us from tipping and to heard small balls. We got wide. We can still go up the stairs but why? We can reach the bar from the carpet. So the ground clearance was for nothing...

Good luck ya'll!!

-Andy

Re: What did your robot sacrifice for First Frenzy?
 

Ok, just to clarify things on what IronSlayTallica said. Team 870 did not build their drive train before the seasons got underway. Yes we did start to look at things and design it, but no actual building took place. I know a number of teams start planning a drive train and anything else they think they may need before the season starts, which is in the guidelines of FIRST. No building should be started before the game is announced, and with our team no bulding did occur. Everyone slips up on what they say every once and a while, and I assure all of you, from an experienced adult/mentor on the team, no building took place before the season started. I'm very sorry if this is an incovenience to anyone and if anyone looks down upon us from one team member, but I assure you that only a design was made before the season. Sorry for any incovenience this may have caused.