most feared thing
 

For this years game what is the most feared freature or features you do not want to have to go up against. For me i saw 1403 robot (playing in nj) and they can grab most of the ball falling in there robot. I really do not what to have to play against that. The only thing the would make them even more of a power house would be if they could get on the bar.

shaun team 25

Re: most feared thing
 

Here is what I see winning:

1.) A robot who can catch all the balls while its partner triggers the bonus ball

2.) A robot who can get on the bar immediately and de-cap the 2x ball (if needed).

These two simple strategies I will fear the most. I fear even more an alliance who can do both of these, for I believe that they will be unstoppable.

Re: most feared thing
 

My biggest fear, possibly unfounded, is that this game will go the way of numerus other years games.

FIRST has, for better or worse, started a trend in the game of a single, relativly easy big scoring item. I take this to be a token for rookies, so they have something they can do and still have a shot at doing well.

The problem comes from 90% of every other vet team realizing that they can control the game by controling that one scoring object. Last year it was the hill. The year before that it was the three goals. This year, it is the bar.

I really, really fear that in the first 30 seconds, every bot that can is going to go right for the bar, and there will be a royal slug fest between all 4 bots and who gets to hang. The number of ball handlers this year pretty much shows how weighted the game is to that 50 point bar.

Maybe this is because my team can't hang. But still, who wants to watch 2 minutes of pushing and shoving over a silly bar? I don't blame the teams that are going for the bar at all- it's probably the winning ticket. My team realized that, we just decided that we'd rather stay out of that and do something a little bit diffrent.

Speaking for my self, I would much rather play a fast paced and dynamic game then a pushing match followed by a minute of watching my 'bot dangle.

I'm sure many will start posting reasons why I am completely off base, and there are so many ways to score points. Go ahead. It won't change my outlook on the game or what I think is likely to happen. The only thing that will change that is never seeing it become a trend in matches.

-Andy A.

Re: most feared thing
 

I think you do not people know how much the small balls are going to change the game. Ex: if all your robot could do is grab big ball and push a goal you push a movable goal you your side of the feild put all 6 ball from you team side in it and cap it the is 60 points with out getting any ball off the feild. that alread negates on robot hanging. Now i feel you can put 11 balls in the small goal with the 30 inch ball that now negates both robots hanging and you have the advantage.

Re: most feared thing
 

you aren't completely off base, but I don't think you are 100% right either....have you been to a scrimmage yet? cause what I have seen at the scrimmage i went too and what I have heard from other scrimmages is that small balls & who can hang determines the winner.....imho and others that I have talked too think this game is much more different than the last two....keep in mind there were balanced games in the past, and yes there are easier ways to win than others (there will always be), but that is all in the strategy and how your robot performs, not necessarily that FIRST has given a game that is too single focused....

Re: most feared thing
 

my most feared feature would be a doughnut making machine, or a robot that says mr.T lines like don't be a fool stay in school.

Re: most feared thing
 

Any robot that can hang in auto mode and keep other robots from hanging, or any robot that can catch every ball. An alliance that could do both would make my head explode. So if anyone wants to watch my head explode...

Re: most feared thing
 

I think going for the bar early is going to be a bad idea for most teams that hang. From the pictures I have seen so far, very few teams appear to have made a locking mechanism to prevent them from being removed from the bar, or as I like to say, delivered to gravity's ever loving embrace.

On the QnA board, FIRST has stated that it is legal to de-hang opponent robots. This gets sticky though, as we all know that intentional damage is not permitted. The crux is that this will be a judgment call on the part of the referee.

On the one hand, I did not de-hang your robot to damage it. I did it to win the match. It was your responsibility to design your robot in such a way that it could not be dislodged from the bar, or that it could survive falling from the bar.

On the other hand, it may be my responsibility to design a robot that could safely deliver your robot to the ground after disengaging it from the bar, if I were planning to engage in such tactics.

If I had to make the call I would go with the first case. The second one doesn't pass the extension test. For example, extend this concept to pushing matches. Am I responsible for ensuring that no damage is done to your robot if I decide to push it away from my ball corral, or are you responsible for building a robot that is robust enough to take the punishment?

If you ask me, hanging early = broken robots for teams that don't lock on to the bar.

Re: most feared thing
 

Thats Scarrier than i ever thought possible. i now do not fear death.

Im some what worried about Omni Directional Robots as if anyone who is somewhat up to date with teams posting there pictures and profiles there are TONS of crab drive and Omni drive robots this year with the capbality to run circles around you while floating like a butterfly and stingin' like a bee. from scrimage footage and playing with that First Frnazy 3D simulator(Omni robot on the game) you will see there is tons of room to drive around franticly and distrupt any if not all attempts to get up the steps or get up that bar. im happy thought because our robot does not try to get up the bar but where still a volunerable target to any axis happy pilot willing to block our path no matter where we go. Kudos to team 21 who took our idea (haha j/k) and also have a omni directional capability.

Be Afriad

-Osc on 702-

Re: most feared thing
 

well I think that i agree with my teamate Andy Grady the robot that scares me the most is one that directly funnels all 18 balls from the ball drop driectly to the human player station. :ahh:

Re: most feared thing
 

the thing im most scared of is the 13 inch balls of death. no one realy knows what ones are gonna be used in the actual compititon. at the building museam we kept running up on them!!! it was tearable! so im woried

Re: most feared thing
 

I posted this concept in a different thread. I feel that every other robot, even the teams who catch all 18 balls and roll them out to the human player, is beatable through the correct strategy. In most cases, I have even already thought of that strategy. The one doomsday scenario I can imagine is an ultra-tough, quick unfolding, funnel. If a robot can unfold itself and funnel balls directly from the troft to the human player zone, while being able to take multiple hits and avoid being moved...you really can't beat them. Of course then again, with some of the strategy nuts on this board, I wouldn't be suprised if someone could think of something. ;)

Re: most feared thing
 

how bout caping their big goal before they can shoot?

Re: most feared thing
 

According to the rules, all small balls on top of a capped ball still count and will get a 2x multiplier.

Re: most feared thing
 

Unless you have built a robot that can expand taller than theirs and divert the balls the other way. hehehe.

Re: most feared thing
 

Any robot can be moved.

Re: most feared thing
 

have you tried shooting 18 to 24 balls into a goal that has a 2x ball wedged in its top?

when they are fully inflated, they dont push down very far very easy - if someone caps your goal, and you dont have a means to uncap it, you are not going to get very many balls in it.

TO answer the subject of this thread, The thing I would worry the most about is a team that thinks this is battlebots - with a machine that comes flying out in autonmode and smacks their opponent, or that rams our bot for no apparent reason

even if they do get disqualified, we still have to go back and repair the damage.

Re: most feared thing
 

It would be hard to move them if they brace themselves against the wall and the side and that corner. You really can't push them from the other side and most robots can't pull as well as they push. Anyway what could you grab onto to pull. That would just get you in trouble. My next move would be if they have a fabric to capture the balls to strategically push on that kind of like when a baseball gets caught on top of mesh batting cages. This would possibly divert the flow of the balls.

Re: most feared thing
 

my biggest fear is a robot that can control the bar, but then im just worrying about the finals matches

Re: most feared thing
 

I fear the team that has decided the best way to play the game is to run around and look to shove robots over off of the ramp or find some way to topple other robots and try winning by breaking the opponents robot (not intentionally, of course :rolleyes: ).

Re: most feared thing
 

Very good point, however the balls are only inflated to 30", not the full amount. Also you only need 1/2 the amount of balls, and that potentially leaves the mobile goal open for scoring (which when stationary isn’t that hard to shoot into).

I never said that this was a bad strategy; I was just stating what the rules say.

Also make sure you don't get caught for goal tending, when the robot has the 2x ball in its possession, it is considered a part of the robot. So if it blocks any of the balls while capping the opponent’s goal, they should get the penalty bonus.

Re: most feared thing
 

I'm afraid of that lip on the side of the platform-- foolhardy robots falling onto :ahh: our robot would be quite bad.... or top heavy ones spanning the whole side and blocking it. That would be bad.

Re: most feared thing
 

I think judging from their 2002 robot, Beatty and Hammond might have an issue with that statement.

Re: most feared thing
 

Beatty was still able to be moved, you just had to wedge a goal underneath them ( I am refering to our match against them at MMR). don't get me wrong, their design was great, and whenever they got those file cards down, they were unmovable.

I think the point is, is that any robot can be beaten (disreguarding the 2001 season because it was all co-op). and because of that liek you said Andy, somebody will find a way and exploit it.

Re: most feared thing
 

There is no real most feared thing this year because there are so many ways to score and so little robots to do so. Any robot that dominates any one aspect will not be able to do the others. I think the really scarey thing is a robot that can actually work.

Re: most feared thing
 

It took quite awhile, but they were moved eventually...




The biggest fear I have is finding a robot that can do pretty much any feature in the game, do it consistantly, and do it well. If they don't make the top 8, they will pretty much be a guaranteed pick...

Re: most feared thing
 

That alliance wouldn't really scare me. Nobody would trigger the ball release in autonoumous, and then I would make a beeline for the catcher robot and do everything to prevent them from catching all 18.


There are far too many strategies in this game to tell which is going to win every match consistently just yet. But we'll know in a few hours...

Re: most feared thing
 

sorry forgot to put in triggers the bonus ball. But even if they didn't i still see this alliance winning.

I believe scores will be much lower that what peopel expect this year. Adv. with about 60-90 pts for the losing and 125-160 for the winning (at most).

Re: most feared thing
 

Correct in the fact that any robot can be defeated. I guess the point I was trying to make about Beatty's 2002 robot was, if you put those same file cards underneath the funnel robot and at the same time use the walls for support, its gonna make it mighty hard to move something like that. Like you said though...for EVERY strategy, there is a counter strategy. Even the most unbeatable of robots has been defeated before.

Re: most feared thing
 

The thing i fear the most is a GOOD ball collecting mechanism comibed with a good human player(cough cough..Team 33-who won VCU). They collected as many as a dozen balls at a time a dropped them off to a human player who seemingly never missed. Our HP didnt miss a shot in 4 matches int he middle of the competition, but theirs was unbeleivable. not to mention they had goal hooks to move mobile away from blocking the ball deposits. They were slowed down when an oppenent basically devoted its enite match to stopping them in the finals, but they broke away from them soon enough to have hteir human player score another 20 points. They truly exemplify the phrase, you cant stop them, you can only hope to contain them. The bar blocking robot is not very possible. Many teams used "grappling hooks" or tethers to reach the bar fromt he ground or simply had long enough arms, so even if you swing or can stop off the top platform, they can still reach around and get on. Plus with teams like 33, they can counteract the bar with a full stationary goal. Not to mention when 388 capped it for them...

Re: most feared thing
 

Cap a goal and try shooting in it. I guarentee you that you won't be able to get more than 3 balls in if it's capped high. We've tried it. If you cap, you can't get balls in on top of it unless the capped ball is pushed down.

Re: most feared thing
 

Line up across from them and push the moveable goal into their ball corral while in autonomous. You wouldn't have any opposition to this because they moved over to get the balls. It would, of course, have to be fast.

You could also inhibit their partner from triggering the small balls in autonomous then go and block their ball corrals with your robot and a goal before the 45 seconds hit. Then they could carry around their 18 balls til doomsday with no way to get them to the hp. If the ball collector bot lacked the ability to hang, they'd have a very tough time winning, I'd imagine.

Re: most feared thing
 

The one problem with "one-trick pony" robots is teams will figure them out and stop them from doing that one trick anymore. Got a ball collector? Block their goal with the movable goal or with your robot. A really good hanger? Get in their way on the ramp. A topper? Slap the double away or block their way to the goal.
As the season moves on you'll see more diversified robots moving to the forefront as teams figure out how to play the game more and learn to use more flexible strageies. As good as this weekend was it'll get even better.

Re: most feared thing
 

most feared thing for me as HP... after BAE... having a BAD HP on our alliance team... or MYSELF not being up to my potential... which i wasnt on friday... (missed 1 ball which made the match a tie instead of a win..)

Re: most feared thing
 

when you are out there on the field keep one thought in your head - a lot of work by a lot of people went into putting you and your machine on that field for those 120 seconds

if other people had done their job better you would have more small balls to shoot, or the auton mode would be faster, or the bot would be easier to drive, or you would be able to herd, cap and hang faster better stronger brighter...

so dont beat YOURSELF up if you miss a shot or flub a manuver driving the bot because

you are part of a team

if you win, you win as a team

if you lose, you lose as a team

but win or lose, you all rejoice in your effort, and you all ride the bus home together

as a team!

Re: most feared thing
 

Aha, BUT the way to beat these robots is to get both your robots on the bar and make more of the balls given to you. :)

Re: most feared thing
 

at the florida regional, i saw that although many bots did try to hang from the side w/ grappling hooks, the ones that used the platform were more reliable. :rolleyes:

Re: most feared thing
 

check out the threads on our robot (WPI - team 190)...we fit that criteria quite well

Re: most feared thing
 

Just remember...no one is unstoppable. Logically, every team has a weakness - our robot, for example, can't handle the movable goals at all. Beyond that, no robot is immune from mechanical problems. Battery becoming unplugged, wire being ripped out of place, a puncture in the pneumatics system...these can all doom a team to failure if they aren't caught at the right time. It's best not to get me started on programming - I've found (firsthand) so many ways to screw up a robot that it'd take days to list them all. :)

Every robot can be beaten...it's figuring out how that's the fun part. :D

Re: most feared thing
 

This is what i said I would see winning........

If you were to read this entire thread, you would see that I put that anybody can be beaten. So yeah in no way did I say that this type of alliance could not be beaten.

Re: most feared thing
 

the robot that i would fear the most would be one that can cap and hang at the same time

an alliance that i would fear the most is one that has one bot that herds balls and has a very good human player and the other bot can cap and hang very well and do them at the same time

Re: most feared thing
 

two robots i fear 1083 and 179

Re: most feared thing
 

a muscle bot that beats you up while your tryihg to cap a ball and your wheel breaks and you have to play a match with 3 wheel drive and there still beating you up