VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Hey all FIRSTers,


Heres an update from the VCU regional.


WE spend about 6-8 hours setting up the field and (new this year) the practice field. All the pit stations are set up and ready to go! The pits have expanded father across the seigal center with almost wall to wall pit stations.

The VCU Robotics CLub will be providing 4 free pairs of safety glasses to each team over the competition, so be sure to stop by and pick some up!
(Thanks to Ronald William, ltd. and the Kappa Gamma chapter of Theta Tau Professional Engineering Fraternity).

So good luck all teams and I'll see you all tommorrow!!

-Gabe Goldman
VCU Robotics Club Prez

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Thanks for giving us an update. It will be really great if teams attending to the VCU regional will keep us updated on the progress of the practice day, qualifying matches, finals, and award winners. In other words, a daily update on the competition will be great.

If people don't mind, I ask that messages about the VCU competition be kept in this thread only so they are in one place.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Can someone post the practice day schedule, and the competition schedule when available?

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2004...AVCUAgenda.pdf

this is what FIRST has, but as I am watching the practice day start time has been pushed back from 10 AM to 11:30.....ah turns out it is every regional around the country that is having problems, as the announcer says "it is a practice day for us today too" :)

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You are able to watch? The links aren't active on the website I was going on...

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

yeah I dunno what is going on with the links on that robotics education page.....the "feed" im "watching" updates the image about once ever 15-30 seconds....it is terrible o well something is better than nothing at least i can listen to the sweet music selection.... :cool:

*update* maybe it is just me, but seems as though they are just replaying the kickoff on the robotics education page.....very wierd.....

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http://robots.larc.nasa.gov/webcast.html <-- that video works fine for me

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Make sure you download the newest version of real player. I am gettign 150 kbps feed and over 30 fps. This is a very good feed!!!

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just upgrade to the new version of Real Alternative 1.21.....now it is working fine for me....

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If anyone at VCU is reading this, please tell the field crew that they're putting the mobile goals on the wrong sides!! An alliance's color goal should always be on their right... they've been putting them on the left!

Like they said, it's practice day for them, too. =-]

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If anyone watching the webcast want to start a AIM chatroom, I am all for joining ^^. My AIM sn is LKen5412.

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I saw this. What I would like to see is the schedule of rounds with team numbers, so that I can look for a specific team.

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Has any explanation been released about what problem they are having?

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I have little else to do, so add me to the list of people who'd be willing to join such a chat room.

I'm not with my team in Portland because, of all things, I have to develop a curriculum that teaches robotics for summer camp.

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IF ANYONE @ VCU can read this PLZ TELL THE PPL TO GET OUT OF THE WAY OF THE CAMERA....JEEZ

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they mentioned something about the software for operating the field not working correctly, and they will have it working by tommorow.....specifics i can't tell ya....

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No one has a good auton. Only one team has knocked off the trigger ball today. ONE. Also, I can see the hanging bar giving FIRST trouble latter in the game season. Also, the ball shute got stuck once, that can be bad if it happened during the finals!!! :) Many teams here have bad human players, and an average of 4 balls are in the goals by the end of the game. Only one team has capped the big goal.

Ah, anyway, I'm at VCU, and we have a webcafe now. Sparky will be up soon, so look for us!!!

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I was watching the feed earlier, beautiful webcast! Great quality without any lag or distortion.

And don't worry guys... it's the first day of the first week, let the teams get their kinks worked out :]

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The # of balls in the stationary goal is disappointing, if what you say is true. The alliance starts with 6 balls. FOUR is really not an acceptable number, especially when quite a few can be herded by just shoving :/

Are people having issues with auton because their dead reckoning is off or because their positioning system (use of beacons, etc.) is too complicated and has many bugs?

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

have you tried herding the balls just by pushing them? its not easy

Ive noticed that when the balls are released, most of them end up against the sides or the walls, which will make it difficult to push them towards the corrals

those ball catchers are going to do well

and anyone who can capture the small balls into their machine when they are against the railings or wall ( like us :c)

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Team 639 driver tryouts required drivers to herd 6 balls (along with other tasks) out of the 12 that were on the field... I was the fastest, collecting them in under 40 seconds. That was the first time I tried herding and it was hard. It definitely got hectic trying to get them in when there weren't many left. I disagree with one of your points though - I found that the balls that were adjacent to the side were the easiest to herd. Those got in first because the edge was a great guide for balls. Freely roaming balls were hard. Nonetheless, 6 balls in < 40 seconds should be done fairly easily in games.

I'll be watching tomorrow to see if there are improvements. Good luck to everyone.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

our bot can hold 6 small balls, and sucks them in like a vacuum cleaner sweeping the floor - as soon as the roller touches them it pulls them inside

I think we will be able to get all 18 balls on our side of the field and deliver them easily within 60 seconds.

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Getting back to VCU, I was a volunteer/ spectator for the day and this is what I saw:

First off- a little mini-rant <rant> Please read the FIRST manual. We, (the inspectors) are going by the sheet and what we know from the manual, along with general updates given at the competition. If an Inspector makes a simple request, like taping all electrical connectors, please comply. We are trying to make sure your robot is safe, we are not being mean. The majority of teams were accomodating but there were a few that tried to bend the rules. I don't want this to turn into a intent debate, but please if it is in the manual- you WILL be held accountable. Just because your design works, or you think it is safe, if it is against the rules it will be disallowed.

Secondly, I know that it is an old call, but please have a memeber of your team at inspection that has read the rules and tried to make the robot comply with them. When I tell you that a CIM motor can not be hooked up to a spike "I know" is not an answer I want to hear.

In conclusion, the inspectors are your friends. Hate the sizing box, Hate the scale, love the inspectors. We don't bite. Really. </rant>

Now for how VCU went: keeping in mind that this was practice, many teams did not have a working autonomous. The teams that did were rare but there was more then one. Also, hanging and small ball control are looking to be pretty important. The herders were having issues with the being able to get the balls to the human player. Some teams had trouble with the lip or just trying to pick out balls to herd (Think shark picking a minnow out of a school).
Very few teams have been able to cap well within the time limit. Also, the successful hangers were rare. Most teams are still attempting to drive around and get those kinks out. The teams that could hang hung very well. We will have to see, but it is looking like small ball control and hanging are important.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Yea, I think one thing the herders greatly underestimated was the lip.. I mean, its not easy to get small balls over, with the balls' elasticity... We also have a small ball sucker (i like to call it an absorber) ~9 balls, it'll be a blast at competitions..


still 2 weeks until chesapeake, aargh

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yes thats what i saw when i was watching the broadcast... is there any way you could get the camera man to stop viewing random people behind the first tables bending over to fix stuff under the table.... hahaha it looked great for the first regional good job guys!

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Does anyone know if they kept score and if they did what was the highest?
(if they didn't keep score what was around a high score(estimate)?)

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

they dont keep score during the pratice matches - and it would be misleading anyway

lots of teams dont show up, lots are working out the bugs in auton mode

tomorrow we will see the real stuff and get a feel for how this years game is going to flow

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

I watched about 2 hours of the VCU competition this afternoon. Granted, it was the first day of the first round of regionals, but if things don't improve quickly tomorrow, this game could be very boring for the audience to watch.

During that 2 hours, only 1 bot was able to trip the ball release during autonomous. That means for the vast majority of the matches, not a whole lot happenned during the first 45 seconds or almost half of the match.

I only saw 3 or 4 bots hang. Only 1 time did I see a 2X ball removed and replaced. If this trend holds, very few scores will exceed 70 or 80 points.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

I think that the first two weeks of regionals are always ruff, as we go on to the later regionals, teams figure out what to do. Some teams will be playing their second or even third regional and their bots will have improved.

Just give it time, this game will be the most exciting yet.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

I recall at buckeye last year, the practice matches were rather boring (either teams were still fixing stuff or didn't want to give away all their secrets), but the competition turned out great. I think it will be a lot more exciting tomorrow when teams are playing to win.

Allison

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

The practice matches yesterday so far have strongly reflected what today is going to be like. As for tomorow, that's stilll open for discussion

PS: 616 First match was a huge success with our allies Team 53 against 975 and 1418. Final score: Us(RED) 95, Blue:65.

Good Luck to all. :D :D

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Nice goat sticks...at least that is what they look like.

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wow two teams ive seen so far lift from the ground got up in the air, but neither counted....interesting how that worked out....(one was touching the fitting, the other would have swung and touched the ground if the vert bart war removed)....i guess lifting from the ground was a little tricky than what i imagined....

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Touching the fitting? could you clarify that? Was the hook supported by the fitting or just touching it on the side? Like, did the hook land on top of the fitting, or did it slide over to the side against it?

Our robot hangs from the side and our hook slides over, so I'd be very interested if they're not counting a robot just for touching the fitting up there.

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I cannot be sure I'm not @ VCU....i just know what the announcer said....i do know that it certainly LOOKED like both robots should have gotten the 50 pts....but like i said im not there and im not a ref....

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I've heard it said before that you can't slide into that fitting because then you aren't only supported by the bar but by that fitting too. But I guess as long as you could show or it is visible that if the fitting was removed the hook wouldn't slide farther you would count. If not, I don't think they're going to count it.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

From the FIRST Q&A

Q: Is a robot legally hanging if from the floor it extends a rectangular tower (open in center) over the top of the vert bar to contact the horiz bar and pull itself up resting against the outside of the vert more than 12" up?

A: For the your situation, if the vertical post is removed as a SUPPORTING object, it is not apparent that the robot would not be touching the platform. Given that the referees need to make immediate decisions, the situation you present is not easily answered. In theory, the method suggested in your situation (i.e., pulling up on the horizontal bar while being held out by the vertical pole) is legal as a means of hanging. However, the clearance between the robot and the edge of the platform must be substantial enough such that one can instantly see that the robot would still be hanging if the vertical bar was removed. One additional caveat, and which is appropriate for this solution as well, is that the hook / box / lasso that is supporting the robot on the horizontal bar MUST be solely supported by the horizontal bar. If the attachment mechanism is being held in place by the extension of the vertical post (e.g., if the vertical post were not there, the loop of the attachment mechanism would slip off the end of the horizontal bar), then this would not be a legal solution. As it is impractical for the judges to determine whether the friction between the horizontal bar and the attachment mechanism would be sufficient to resist any horizontal element of the force vector, all judgements will be made in the most conservative manner possible. In other words, if the attachment mechanism is being pulled in the direction of the vertical post and it is TOUCHING the vertical post, then the vertical post will be determined to be providing a portion of the support function and the robot will be determined to be NOT hanging under the rules of the game. Bottom line: teams taking this approach are playing a risk. If they are POSITIVE their attachment mechanism will never touch the vertical post and the vertical post will NEVER provide any support function, then they can go ahead. But if they slip and bump up against the post, NO POINTS.

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Yay! I'm one in 500. Nice last round. 80 to 50. And kilroy kaps(sp?).

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Things are interesting here right now. Many people are confused of when auton starts since the announcer says some wierd things. Also, we have had VERY low match scores. Our last match we had 20 qp, and we lost to 65. VERY low. On other news, Dean Kamen will be given a honorary doctorate at the VCU School of Engineering in May. Cool. No Dean or Woodie here yet, my guess is tomorrow, but Mr. Lavery is walking around.

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Wierd things - like what?

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My music and matches are off sync. Is anyone else having this problem?

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Yes, I'm about 30 seconds desynched. It's quite annoying. Try either listening or watching, but not both at once... slightly less annoying.

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For some strange reason I can't even get a live video of the VCU stream. The Audio play fine, but the video is always stuck at the first moment of the stream and never changes. Its like watching a slide show if I keep stopping and restarting the steam.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

wierd things....he says,

Mangnifier Balls...as opposed to Multiplyer....

I haven't been watch long, and our video isn't working well. but i have heard him say this multipule times.

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Yeah same. I'm getting no video from VCU and no sound from Portland. Oddly enough when I put them together it was still making sense.


Update: Ahhh no sound anywhere. I'm gonna have to feed in some techno music just to stay sane.

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Do you have a link to the portland webcast? I can't seem to find it.

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can you get me the URL for the portland video?

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

http://robotics.nasa.gov

Follow the FIRST link on the right side

I'm playing both webcast using real alternative or alternative real, not sure which one. Its a free download just google it. If you do this change options so multiple viewing windows open.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

So far the competition has been fairly intersesting as of Match 37. Most teams are getting in the groove and some are coming out as strong competitors. Can't wait to seee what tomorrow brings to everyone.

PS: Team 616 is coming on strong. Our last match ended 125 to 95 with us as the victors. Good luck to everyone competing.

:D

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i am getting a bad link from the Oregon site... you still watching ???
The link on the NASA site shows bad on Real Alternative...
thanks

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I'm watching both and they have both been coming in good. Haven't had a problem with the feed in the real alternative I'm using. I'm on a university ethernet connection so I don't have a problem with connection speed yet. Will see how it is at peak time, about 4 pm.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

i've been getting a bad signal from portland also, on brand new vaios at school's tv lab. bah.

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I cannot get the VCU webcast at all. I get the portland one just fine, but would rather watch the vcu webcast (cause that is where my team is). I also could not get real alternative, I could not find a site to download it. There was one site that would have probably had it, but that site was down.

Can someone post a link to a real alternative download site? Thanks

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I'm watching VCU right now and its fine. I had to upgrade Real this morning.

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I upgraded real...but still can't get it.

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http://www.free-codecs.com/download/...lternative.htm

That's at least where I got it. I'm having problems with my normal real player because of it (I think) so eventually I will probably delete both and at least re-install real. Does anyone know can you get two windows with different streams in regular real?

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Since msot people are still at the social I will try to give the first update.

Peoples predictions about seeding were very close. I believe only one robot is undefeated. Many, many, many penalties have been given out and were the deciding factor in some cases. Overall the reset field team is performing like pros and the matches are going smoothly. Hanging robots are consistently doing well and the 2x ball has been the deciding factor in several matches. And yes, my former team 339 capped with Kilroy several times.

On to some warnings: the small balls are still a problem with teams riding up on them and teams are also having trouble negotiating the step. Also, several teams took nasty shots while attempting to hang so be prepared for some robot roughhousing.

Finally, unfortunately, <rant> this is aimed at people at VCU but also at competitions that follow: Please stop harrasing the volunteers. The scoring software that FIRST usually has to sort the rankings was broken. The pit admin table could not fix it. FIRST was working frantically to get it working. Yelling at us did not resolve the situation, it just tired us out.

Please feel free to ask the volunteers questions-- that's what we are there for. However, when you receive the answer and it is not to your liking, think "Can this person solve my problem if I discuss it with them?" After that think, "Let us have a cold rational discussion to have this issue resolved." Remember the volunteering is not mandatory for the people to do it. It IS mandatory if FIRST is to survive and the regionals to leave a positive impact on eveerybody. </rant>

In closing, good luck to all teams tomorrow and if you want to meet me in person I will probably be at the pit admin table.

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Anyone have a working VCU webcast connection link???

I was watching the Opening cermonies and then lost connection and unable to reconnect.

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I can't get in either. Nor to Oregon....

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not able to connect at all right now.. noo!! what a huge shame.

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I lost the connection too. I followed the "directions" given by Real to empty temp files and histroy, etc. However, I am still unsuccessful at reconnecting. If anyone resolves this, please let me know. Thanks!


[EDIT]Appears to be back up now 9:49 AM EST[/EDIT]

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

I restarted my computer and now it works.

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Actually, it seems you didn't have to restart--it's fixed!

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Top 5 teams so far

616
165
619
345
435


I'll add the more when they run the list again

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Final Top Eight

165
616
435
33
977
1002
619
345

Congratulations all. Can't wait for elims.

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Final 8 alliances of VCU

Seed 1 165 616 346
Seed 2 435 422 975
Seed 3 33 977 388
Seed 4 1002 384 405
Seed 5 619 843 401
Seed 6 345 339 926
Seed 7 1236 623 116
Seed 8 1467 611 53

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Does anybody know what the top bots specialities are? What sort of alliance partners they picked? I know there are a few hangers & some ball herders in there & some big ballers.

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33 is a ball capturor and 977 is a hanger.

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i say 33 is goign to win!

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wow, 3 robots hanging at once. That's impressive

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Round 1 RESULTS
Red Seed 1 Blue Seed 8
65 80
75 10
105 70
Red Moves On (165 616 346)

Red Seed 4 Blue Seed 5
20 75
50 75
Blue Moves On (619 843 401)

Red Seed 2 Blue Seed 7
130 90
70 75 (This was a very good match)
120 125 (4 ROBOTS HANGING)
Blue Moves On (1236 623 116)

Red Seed 3 Blue Seed 6
120 100
70 130
90 65
Red Moves On (33 977 388)
------------------------------------------------
Round 2 RESULTS

Red Seed 1 Blue Seed 5
120 25
45 10
Red Moves On (165 616 346)

Red Seed 7 Blue Seed 3
85 125
25 75
Blue Moves On (33 977 388)
------------------------------------------------
FINALS
Red Seed 1 Blue Seed 3
70 140 (Great Shooting and Collecting 33)
65 40 (388 Fliped Over!!!!!!!)
40 45 (WON BY 1 BALL!!!!!)

WINNERS 33 977 388

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Just now, QF 3.3


blue beats red 125-120.

4 robots hanging!! incredible..

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FOUR ROBOTS UP AT ONCE!!!

... AMAZING!

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$@#$@#$@#$@#... i missed that. must be a tight squeeze up there.

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Finalists for VCU

165 616 346 (number one seed)

33 977 388 (number three seed)

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I have only one thing to say. 33'S HUMAN PLAYER ROCKS!

He just hit like 10-12 in a row to totally fill their stationary goal, leading to a
140-70 victory for their alliance in the first match of the finals.

Cory

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Wow! 33's Human Player is Amazing! They should draft him to the NBA right now!...... let's see if they show him again... watch him prepare as he shoots!

.... absolutely amazing!!! :yikes:

... new high score at VCU!

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OMG that last match had incredible shooting with the Killer Bees' human player. He made EVERY SINGLE SHOT! They got 18 balls and scored 140 total. They had 1 robot hanging and no capped goal.

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That last match was AMAZING! Big pile of robots on top. i can't wait for the result.

EDIT: Blue alliance #3 won. If 616 had 3 more seconds they could have hung and won.

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Wow the small balls win it!!

congrats to alliance #3 teams:

33 977 388

for winning the VCU regional!!!

final match 3 score - Red:40 Blue: 45


WOW

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Yeah congrats 33, 977, 388. That was sick. And people said this wouldn't be exciting

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Absolutely amazing final battle! Congratulations to the champions!

... so incrediably close, only one ball! :ahh:

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congrats 33, 977, 388, amazing battle!!!!!!!!!!!

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Usually these first regionals set the standard for the competitions to come and all I have to say is...This is going to be a very exciting year! Congrats to the VCU regional champs!

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its Dave! i didnt think we would be seeing him here

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Quite suprising....90% of the bots in the tournament rounds were hangers...but in the end to 2 alliances that made it thru were both lead by ball gatherers. Team 165 was the lead of the of the other alliances and seeded first. They were also a ball gatherer altho not as effective as 33 (seeded 3rd) and thier shooter was not as good. Seems like the small balls were underestimated significantly by many teams.

Another crazy round was quarterfinals round between 2nd seed and 7th seed, in the second match..alll 4 bots hung.

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We were up there on the bar when there were 3 'bots and 4 (last one up both times). The one with 3 'bots was actually harder, as the opposition did a great job of blocking. It looked like a sword fight with 10 foot swords, and we only got hooked on in the last 15 seconds or so. We kept overshooting, undershooting and getting tangled with another robot's arm and the goal. We were driving on two wheels part of the time, but managed to get back upright just in time. Quite exciting, let me assure you!

Our drivers were a freshman and a sophmore who was quite ill with whatever was going around there at VCU, so we're very proud of them. Congratulations to Tan and Paul!

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Any one have awards standings for the competition?

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*look at sig*

Our main arm driver was vomiting all of last night and today, our team head was sick, one kid went to the hospital early in the morning, our human player was ill, I was sick, our main driver was sick, our student team leader had a feaver, and one of our mentors was out for the day. AND WE STILL AND SPIRIT! :D ;) :p

Read the Dave Lavery hint thread and the VCU Thanks and Congrats for more info.

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They destroyed the balls and are dousing the reuseable field components with Alcohol in hopes of keeping that stuff in check. My sympathy for any and all who had to compete at such a disadvantage.

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Ugh, I was the human player for 975. I kept yelling at our our partner to corral some more balls before going up, I knew we lost right when I saw they had one more ball =[

Here's a picture:

http://www.team975.org/day3/bar4.jpg

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Yep, our driver was sick too but thankfully we have two drivers of equal skill.

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I do not really want to turn this into a rant against FIRST, but I really think that this kind of "rule augmentation" in Q&A really needed to be included in an update somehow.

I am a pretty serious FIRST-a-holic and I will be honest, toward the end of the build cycle, I am dog tired and I just miss a lot unless it is in my face. I totally missed this rule. It is a very clear and thoughtful answer, it explains quite a lot in a very excellent way. I suppose that fewer that 1 team in 20 read that posting.

I don't know what we can do about it now, but I want everyone within the sound of my voice to remember this and to bring it up at the team forums this summer.

Deal?

Joe J.

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I didn't see the point in starting a new thread about this, but there's a story posted about the VCU regional that can be found here.

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What's with this VCU viral outbreak? Were people really coming down with something bad in such a short amount of time? Sounds like one of those deadly-viral-outbreaks-that-destroy-the-world movies...only less deadly and more outbreaks....

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

Hmmm... mabey that could be the Disney movie they never made! j/k

I don't know, but it was either viral or food born. I'm talking to a guy on 1086, he just started to throw up tonight.

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

The VCU regional was fantastic.. It definately was exicting...

The competition was fun but the penalties they called on me are a joke. We were the #8 alliance and would of won if we did not get four penalities.. They said our robot crossed the coral but I dont see any phyiscal way that can happen. Our robot is 50" up and is completely flat, nothing goes in that coral... It hits the wall and the robot can not break that plane. I just dont see it but if the REF says he did, then thats final.... It doesnt matter though, we havent been there in four years but it still awesome to know we accomplished something..

I must thank Team 1467 for picking us to join their alliance and team 611 for playing with us. Team 611 capped a stationary goal and that gave us a win against the #1 seeded team.... We were the only ones to beat them besides the 3rd seed who eventually won the regional...

Well everyone, I loved the game, the crowds rocked, and most importantly the respect for the Teams....

First rocks!!!!!!!!

See you guys at the Chesapeake Regional

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

His team (116) was there and he has been to the VCU regional every year with us. It was sort of logical that he was there.

Hanging the 4 bots was AMAZING. I had a discussion with one of our mentors about hanging 4 bots just before that match. I told him that I wanted to see a match with all 4 bots hanging. He said it wouldn't happen in any of the competitions. I said it would...and it did the very next match.

Thanks and congratulations to teams 623 and 1236 for our 7th seed alliance getting to the semi-finals.

Congratulations to all the other teams that participated! See you in Annapolis for the Chesapeake regional!

The virus that went around really was very bad and was easily affecting people in a very short period of time. Sorry to everyone that had to deal with it, especially the teams that lost human players and drivers. My brother [Jeff] Wetzel was hospitalized due to it and should be home tomorrow afternoon (hopefully).

Re: VCU COMPETITION STATUS
 

So YOU'RE the one who gave that to me...
Thanks alot...:p

Wetzel