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-   -   Declining (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26469)

Stephen Kowski 07-03-2004 12:00
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichKeane
This brings up an interesting question taht almost came up at the NJ regionals. My team, 219, ranked #2, was Picked 2nd time through by the #8 seed team (go figure). Now, since we already had an alliance, and were ranked #2, we declined of course.

Now, the question we considered later: Say 1st time through, every team picks their alliance mate #1.

Then, 2nd time through seed #1 picks seed #2, who already has an alliance mate.
1- would this be allowed to happen?
2- what would happen to the alliance mate?
then they wouldn't be able to choose #2 because #2 is already part of an alliance....it only works if you pick them BEFORE they have a partner....

simple explanation the whole thing
you are one of the top 8 you can decline an offer and still pick
you are not one of the top 8 you can decline, but if you do not end up moving up into the top 8 you are done
if you do move up to the top 8....you can pick....gl ppl

ngreen 07-03-2004 14:18
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichKeane
This brings up an interesting question taht almost came up at the NJ regionals. My team, 219, ranked #2, was Picked 2nd time through by the #8 seed team (go figure). Now, since we already had an alliance, and were ranked #2, we declined of course.

Now, the question we considered later: Say 1st time through, every team picks their alliance mate #1.

Then, 2nd time through seed #1 picks seed #2, who already has an alliance mate.
1- would this be allowed to happen?
2- what would happen to the alliance mate?
You can't choose people that are already in an alliance.

Guest 07-03-2004 15:14
Re: Declining
 
Bottom line: There is only one rule!

You can pick anyone who does not already have a partner.

KenWittlief 07-03-2004 16:45
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverStar
Bottom line: There is only one rule!

You can pick anyone who does not already have a partner.
um....No!

you cant pick a team that has already declined someone else.

Korbin 07-03-2004 16:49
Re: Declining
 
ok, now that all that is sorted out, why would you pick a broken robot? In Past years of competition teams have purposely picked disabled robots because then they would be able to play as an alliance with the same two teams every time. However, they fixed that last year when the made the rule about every robot in the alliance has to play in at least one match. Soo is this just due to bad scouting?

KenWittlief 07-03-2004 16:56
Re: Declining
 
if there are 60 teams at a regional and you are on the second round of choosing alliance partners, there is no WAY you are going to know if every bot on your list is operating within normal parameters

or if it got damaged in one of its last matches

your scouting people wont have time to run around asking every team in the pits the current status of their machine.

Kaelia 07-03-2004 22:12
Re: Declining
 
Kudos to Robobees for declining! ^_^

Also, I noticed at the VCU regional that a *lot* of teams tried to pick teams that had already been picked and, occasionally, were standing right next to them! Pay attention, people...sheeesh...

Bcahn836 24-03-2004 19:51
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korbin
I was watching the VCU broadcast, and during the alliance selection there was a team selected, that was not one of the alliance captains, and they declined, I was wondering, why would anyone do this? Am I wrong remembering that this is giving up a chance to continue on in the competition?!?!

In case you are still wondering team 836 declined team 345's offer because of a broken caster, and 16 of our 20 students and numerous mentors, parents and the bus driver that went on the trip were sick do to the virus. However if we could of found a 7 inch caster we would have accepted. Additionally Team 836 thought it would be unfair to team 345 to accept and not be able to compete or compete at full strength. And also team 345 didn't know that we were broken. We broke the caster on the practice field 5 minuets before alliance pairings, we were fixing a bug in our auto mode, that seemed to make things worse.

Elgin Clock 24-03-2004 23:23
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErichKeane
This brings up an interesting question taht almost came up at the NJ regionals. My team, 219, ranked #2, was Picked 2nd time through by the #8 seed team (go figure). Now, since we already had an alliance, and were ranked #2, we declined of course.

Now, the question we considered later: Say 1st time through, every team picks their alliance mate #1.

Then, 2nd time through seed #1 picks seed #2, who already has an alliance mate.
1- would this be allowed to happen?
2- what would happen to the alliance mate?
LOL... Actually, I was looking at this exact situation last night cause a team member brought it up. I did not see any specific rule in the rulebook against this. This would lead to a super alliance of 4 robots. NICE!!
Anyone want to challenge my findings of the rules?

Elgin Clock 24-03-2004 23:32
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgin Clock
LOL... Actually, I was looking at this exact situation last night cause a team member brought it up. I did not see any specific rule in the rulebook against this. This would lead to a super alliance of 4 robots. NICE!!
Anyone want to challenge my findings of the rules?

© 2004 FIRST2004 Robotics Competition Manual, Section
7 - The Tournament - Rev C7 - The Tournament - Rev A Page 2 of 5

7.4.1 Alliance Selection Process



Each of the Alliance Leads will designate a student to be the Alliance Captain. Each remaining team will choose a student to act as Team Representative. Each Alliance Captain and Team Representative will proceed to the Playing Field at the designated time to represent his or her team.






In ascending order, each Alliance Captain will invite a team ranked below them in the standings, which has not already accepted or declined an invitation, to join their Alliance. The invited Team Representative will step forward and either Accept or Decline the invitation. If the team accepts, it is moved into that Alliance. If the team declines, it is not eligible to be picked again and the Alliance Captain extends another invitation to a different team. If an invitation from a top eight alliance team to another top eight alliance team is accepted, the team currently ranked ninth will move up to become the number eight alliance. The process continues until Alliance Eight makes a successful invitation. The same method is used for each Alliance Captain's second choice. Any teams remaining after Alliance Eight makes their second choice will not compete in the Elimination Rounds.


So, going by this.. I see no reason that a 1-8 alliance could not pick a 9 or below ranked team, and then second time around, a team from a lower rank than you in the top 8. Like if Alliance #2 selects #10, and then second time around picks #5 who already has a partner, say #7. Hence now 4 teams will now be in the alliance. Then Alliance #5 which already has teams #2, #10, #5, and #7 in it has to now (by rules) pick their "second" team leading to a 5 team alliance. NICE!!

MarcusF 24-03-2004 23:33
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgin Clock
LOL... Actually, I was looking at this exact situation last night cause a team member brought it up. I did not see any specific rule in the rulebook against this. This would lead to a super alliance of 4 robots. NICE!!
Anyone want to challenge my findings of the rules?
7.4 ELIMINATION ROUNDS
At the end of the Qualification Rounds, the top eight ranked teams will become the Alliance Leads. The top
ranked Alliances will be designated, in order, Alliance One, Alliance Two, etc., down to Alliance Eight.
Alliances One through Eight may invite any team below them in the rankings, that has not already declined an
invitation, to join their alliance. The Alliance Selection Process will consist of two rounds so that each of the
eight playoff alliances consists of three teams.

you almost answered it your self

Elgin Clock 24-03-2004 23:37
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusF
7.4 ELIMINATION ROUNDS
At the end of the Qualification Rounds, the top eight ranked teams will become the Alliance Leads. The top
ranked Alliances will be designated, in order, Alliance One, Alliance Two, etc., down to Alliance Eight.
Alliances One through Eight may invite any team below them in the rankings, that has not already declined an
invitation, to join their alliance. The Alliance Selection Process will consist of two rounds so that each of the
eight playoff alliances consists of three teams.

you almost answered it your self
So, does that mean if team 2 was to pick number 10, and then number 5 which already has number 7, then you could dump 7 or 5 and just take one or the other?
Pretty tricky eh?

Joe Ross 24-03-2004 23:37
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgin Clock
In ascending order, each Alliance Captain will invite a team ranked below them in the standings, which has not already accepted or declined an invitation, to join their Alliance.
:p

Elgin Clock 24-03-2004 23:40
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross
Originally Posted by Elgin Clock
In ascending order, each Alliance Captain will invite a team ranked below them in the standings, which has not already accepted or declined an invitation, to join their Alliance.
:p
But, if team #2 picks team #5, they have not already accepted or declined an invitation. They have been the choosers, not the chosen.

edit: Unless by picking #7, then you can say number 5 has accepted an invitation. Hmm.. interesting.

Oh, and I swear.. I am NOT one of those lawyers that Dean was talking about!!!

Elgin Clock 24-03-2004 23:50
Re: Declining
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elgin Clock
As far as decling goes, the info that was announce today at NJ regional was:

If you are in the top 8 and are a "picking" alliance, then you can decline and still accept as a member of another alliances request for you to join them.

If you are a Number 9 ranked team or below, once you decline you can NO LONGER be chosen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristan Lall
According to the rules, that's not correct. Any team that declines may not be picked again. If however, they are (or become) a picking team, they may still form part of an alliance.
Yeah thanks for the ruling....
Apparently this was wrong what they said in NJ, and we paid for that mislead belief in UTC this past weekend.. ARGHHHH....


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