A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

To teams who continue to save seats at competitions:
Puh-leeeze stop it!

There is room for everyone.

As 9 of my team members sat down in open seats to watch the matches at GLR, we were actually cursed at and told to leave by several members of another participating team who claimed the territory as their own. Parents on this team appeared to condone this behavior.

The offending team will be attending the National Championship, and I hope they calm down and learn to display decent behavior by then.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Out of curiosity, are you against saving personal seats? I kept my coat on my seat to save it and keep it out of the way. As did many team members. I did not think that this was going against GP. However, we did not do as you described and save empty seats. Team members who saved seats saved their own.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

i think it is important that teams sit together, even if they are not all there at the same time. Some teams do not have 92387923759324 members that can site in the stands constantly. There are alot of teams on which there are only say, 10 members, that need to run in and out of the pits all day(such as us). Also, i think seats should be on a first come, first serve bassis. If your team is motivated to get up early to get good seats, then get there first and run for those prized possesions.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

But there are some teams with a lot of members that block off a whole section of seats for their team. And they're never in the stands for very long.

Or the teams that block off 50 seats for their 10 members and two coaches -- but are saving the other 38 "just in case parents show up". That's not fair to everyone else who is already there.

Though I do agree it's important that teams sit together, I don't agree with teams blocking off a whole section of seats for the whole day when only a small portion of their members will be in the stands for most of the time. I think this is the problem most people deal with - not a few people leaving their coats on the backs of their chairs so they have somewhere to sit later on.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Yes, that is pretty annoying.. but if all the seats are blocked off just for students and advisors, i dont see a problem with it.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Ok, I'll be blunt. 384 saves seats. There, it's off my chest. But for us, we save them for our rounds. If people want to sit in our seats, they can, but we will ask them to move when all of our pit crew comes over to sit and watch. Then afterwards, they can come and sit again. We save only enough for us, and no extra. We had many people sit in 'our' seats, and we let them. It was GP and didn't mind it. Plus we handed them beads and buttons, so at least they'll advertise us too. ;)

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

*puzzled* FIRST rules don't allow any seat saving, so why is it ok if you're saving seats only for your rounds and doing it graciously?

link - see page 5

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

If people sit where your team sits then just sit around them. If you are a particularly spirited and verbose team they're just going to have to put up with it.
But being verbally abusive to other teams is VERY dumb. What if they are a seeded team and are in the process of selecting alliance partners? They'll remeber that your team memebers were graciously unprofessional and hold it agianst you. FIRST is as much about politics as it is about building a robot. Everything you say can be held against you and your team in the court of public opinion!

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

PLEASE REPORT IT TO THE JUDGE ADVISOR OR ANY JUDGES YOU SEE!!
THIS TYPE OF BEHAVIOR IS NOT TOLERATED AT THE FIRST COMPETITIONS OR LEGO COMPETITIONS.

In the pass, Teams have been removed from the award candidate list.
I remember one year a team ruined their chances at the Chairman's award because of one parent open their mouth to an inspector in a very un-GP way.

:mad:

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Figure we should review the rules posted by FIRST in the manuel (please note #3, but how you choose to understand that rule is up to you):

Please read the following restrictions and adhere to them in order to promote an orderly, safe, pleasant, and exciting competition. As a group, we all should honor agreements with the venue and help promote the spirit of good partnership.

Please:

1. Do not bring food on the site. If you bring food, do not bring it onto the property.

2. Do not use noisy devices, such as floor stompers, whistles, or air horns.

3. Do not save seats. It is not fair to other teams or to the public guests we hope to interest as team sponsors or volunteers.

4. Do not deliver or ship robots directly to the site. All shipments go through the Drayage Company.

5. Do not arrange for Internet access on the site or attempt to connect to the internet.

6. Do not sell any products. This includes food, hats, shirts, or any promotional products.

7. Do not give out any free food products, such as candy, water, soft drinks, or fruit. You may trade team pins, however.

8. Do not bring helium tanks.

9. Do not invite or bring live bands to play in the audience. This dilutes the presentation on the playing field and is too loud and confusing for the audience.

10. Do not play loud music in the Pit because it interferes with important announcements. If a team receives more than a warning or two, the power to the team's Pit Station will be shut off and/or the music confiscated.

11. Do not form "tunnels" during the Awards Ceremony. This can cause discomfort to those traveling through them and creates safety issues.

12. Do not take any FIRST signage, including the Pit/Team number signs. We use our signs for multi-event and multi-year applications. They are expensive and it is stealing.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

those of us up here in the artic (NY) have to wear winter clothing this time of year

we cant pile all our coats in the 100sqft pit area

so what else can we do but put our coats on a chair?

I dont consider that saving a seat - if I get to the event at 8AM and put my jacket on the seat Im using, then get up to wander around for a while, am I suppose to carry my coat around with me all day, everywhere I go? Thats absurd

I dont think leaving your jacket or bag on a seat is 'saving seats' and yes, I would feel upset if I came back and someone was sitting on my jacket, eating food, spilling drinks on it...whatever.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

I do think if someone is sitting in an area and leaves their stuff I would hope someone won't come along and physically move it and sit down. That is just plain rude.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

I thought this rule was meant to prevent teams from doing something like laying a banner on a whole bunch of seats to save it for the team. Do you guys believe it applies to the person like me who puts a coat on the chair? I never felt I was doing anything wrong. A chair seems like a natural thing to put your coat on while you are doing other stuff.

I just looked again and apparently a couple people just posted on the same thing. Why not have a poll?

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Nothing wrong with looking after your stuff but if your team is guilty of using vulgar abuse to defend your stuff that is not accecptable.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

I believe I can speak for my team in saying that we did not abuse anybody. Besides, we are not only representing ourselves, but we are representing Scouting as well since we are a Venture Crew. Doing something like that is against our policies.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

What's a Venture crew? :confused:

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Dear Teams:

I save three seats at each competition we attend. Two of the seats always have someone sitting in them. The third seat usually has someone sitting in it. They are our scouting seats. As a chaperon my students always know where to find me. The only time a seat is empty is to send a message to the pits or to take care of a personal matter.

It just dawned on me that we aren't saving seats...WE ARE SITTING IN THE SEATS WATCHING THE COMPETITION! From this vantage point I have seen many strange behaviors:

1. The SAVE A SEAT SO I CAN STAND--This team saves seats so they can stand and cheer on their team during the match. I applaud your pride but the people behind you can't see. If you want to stand during your match...go to the cheering pit.

2. THIS IS OUR CLOSET--This team needs somewhere to store coats, backpacks, and other items of mass destruction. Select an area off to the sides or in the higher seats.

3. JAIL--This is where a student is put for punishment. If they can't stay involved, don't bring them in the first place.

4. KODAK MOMENT--This person (who usually weighs in excess of 300 lbs) stands during the match to video/photograph. They are usually at least 150 feet from the playing field. Move down to the front row and stand in the way of those people who must find a seat during a match rather than waiting for the match to end.

5. The GYM PEOPLE--These are the people who feel the need to exercise during a match. They sit in a row of about ten people. They jump up every 30 second to shout something to someone at the other end of the row. I know that you are not interested in the match because your team isn't playing but mine might be.

6. The SCRUM--This is the group of 6 to 8 people who start up the steps during a match pausing every other step looking for enough seats for all of them to sit in. Check out where you want to go before you start the climb.

7. MY HOTEL ROOM--These people stayed up all night and now need a place to crash. The usually stretch out over 3 or 4 seats. There is plenty of room on the sides for your nap, besides...you snore!

8. The PLAYGROUND--These are children between the ages of 3 and 6. If they aren't picking up trash from the floor, they are jumping from step to step in the aisle. Of course when they fall and get hurt...well that will be another thread.

Folks, this is an exciting game. Matches only last 2 minutes. Come on up, cop a squat, and enjoy yourself but, TREAT THOSE AROUND YOU LIKE YOU WOULD LIKE TO BE TREATED!

Ken Loyd
Team 64

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

LOL, made me examine my own behavior and try to remember what our team did.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

We have a large team. At the last competition we were in the same seating area for Thursday and Friday. We were a few minutes late for Saturday's door opening so we needed to find another section to sit in. But we couldn't get a section big enough for all of us together so we split the students and the adults. It was fine - we were only separated by an aisle - but we really like to stay together so we can cheer, etc. Does anyone have suggestions for how a large team can stay together without saving seats?

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

KathieK:

We are a team of nearly 30 people traveling. We encourage our students to stand behind our driver station and cheer like crazy. During the match. you get a pretty good view of what your robot is doing and your field team knows you are there with them.

Ken Loyd
Team 64

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

we are a team of 60 people, and we realise its very unfair if we stop 60 seats. Last time we got lucky and most of us got to sit in same section but the 15 who were late had to find their own seats. Only the pit crew is allowed to come to pit areas so other teams dont ge distracted. But some of us do go down near the field and cheer at times, and you can always sit near your close friends by askin some of your team members to change seats with you. But there is not really a way to have all the team stay at exactly the same spot unless you are early and all your team members come with you. Last year we didnt distract too many people as we were occupying higher seats and only couple of people were behind us.

But even our team does jump up and down during our matches, its not intentional just the excitement, but i'll amke sure to tell them not to do it too often. :D Buh we are gonna be the loudest cheerers in the Hershey Arena (canadian regional) doesnt matter who is playing

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I definetly agree with your view, and I won't go against it. Fortunately, BAE had the great idea of purposely allowing teams to reserve a section (even though it involved standing in front of the arena in line, dashing in to write my team number on a white board with an arena map, and then sprinting to my section to reserve enough seats to handle my team, and then agreeing to share it with another team). The idea was that you only took what was needed, and thats what I did. There was enough seats for the necessary parents, sponsors, etc. Yet pit people were not included in the count, cause they didn't need seats. Another thing was, as the day went on, I agreed to let other teams make use of open seats.

I did have several people at the BAE Regional actually come up and tell me what a <explitive deleted> I was for saving 5 rows (about 25 seats) for the people who came in seconds later, but then again they grabbed an even larger section which they hardly used, mostly for the "CLOSET" syndrome. My team of 35 students (not including parents, etc.) didn't even have enough seats.

I do agree though. Only take the seats you need, no more.

How do the nationals work? I'm guessing teams do the same thing.

-Jill

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

saving seats and sitting with own team didnt really look like a problem at UCF regional... teams were sitting with each other... and there were enough seats for everybody... i didnt hear anything about anybody being rude to anybody for seat... i myself were sitting with SPAM several times... if every single team picked out a section in the arena and just sit down there (and do not claim that the section is their's)... i dont think other teams will take up their seat... our team had to take out about two rows... members were sitting down there randomly... but didnt have any problem with members from other team...

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Where do the VIPS sit who are paying for this event to occur when a team of 20 people took up 40 spots cause they needed a closet and hotel room and kitchen all in the confines of the stands??? Yes the VIPS do normally have a "lounge" but thats not always in view of the field to watch the game, and also they dont like to stand for 3 days next to the field due to them being like everyone else who need to sit every so often.

P.S.~ For those who are going to say that all the VIP's are the judges that is not even close to the case.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

If there's a problem with VIP's getting seats, then obviously FIRST needs to reserve a few rows of seats for them and have someone watching over those rows making sure only the VIP's sit there.

Cory

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

This is what i dont think everyone is grasping... Its not just for VIP's, what if your mom couldnt show up till friday afternoon and since all the teams there saved seats the closest your mom could sit was on the other side of the arena. I bet you would go and then sit with your mom, leaving the team. But now your gunna say, but we were smart and saved a seat for my mom. Now when you do that what happens to the team that followed the rules and didnt save seats so when their guest shows up there is no room for them cause you saved extra seats for people who may or may not show up. And even if they show up are they going to sit there? I say the rule that first put out saying you "CANT SAVE SEATS" is as important as your robot must use only motors from the kit. If you break the no saving seats rule then maybe you are also breaking other rules and your bot should be double checked by inspectors. I'm not trying to start something here but all i want to get through to all of you is Don't save seats at events.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Hmm... The touchy and heated topic of "seat saving".... Well, I'll first say that I do not think that it is okay to curse at someone for sitting in a seat that you are "saving". However, some "saving" of seats is almost necessary for a team to be able to sit together. I'm not talking about staking out 100 seats and using 40 of them, I'm talking about spreading what people you have over the seats you know you're going to need in an hour, but the people just haven't quite gotten there yet. It's important for teams and their parents/engineers/mentors to sit together, this is true. It's also important that everyone gets a seat, whether they're in "your" section or not. I've seen some interesting strategies for letting people know they're "in your section" without breaking the rules and calling it "your" section.

1. The entire team sitting there turns and stares at the offending "invader" until either A. They leave, or B. They explode in flames. (I have yet to see B happen.)
2. The entire team gets up and moves to an emptier section. (Sadly, I've seen that happen)
3. Team members loudly talk over the offending person to other team members until they get very uncomfortable.

All of these are rude, but I've seen them all. They're less rude than cursing at someone, but still not nice. So, my opinion is: people are going to save seats in some form or fashion, it's unavoidable seeing as how all the teams like to sit with, you know, their own team, SO, just spread out in the seats you KNOW you're going to need. Don't take a whole section. And if someone invades, live with it. We can't break the rules and "save" seats, so they've got a right to be there too.
Thanks,

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

I really think most people are nice about saving seats when they are spoken with calmly and sensibly. Save seats if your team is on the way. Otherwise, let others take them. Maybe, by the time your team actually comes up to watch, that other group will be gone? It's certainly possible. Otherwise, talk it out with the upcoming group. I'm sure we can work something out, gracious professionals as we are.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

A lot of good ideas, comments, and suggestion.

What if ....
the Regionals allow SOME reserved seating for participating teams?
What would be a good quantity?
Since there are 3 more weeks of competitions, regional directors can elect to allow some reserved seating by teams to avoid all these arguments and bad feelings.

Is 20 or 30 spots a good average number most teams? If more is required then a 2nd group of seating will be given.
Should the allocation be by rows or blocks?
Assignments, I believe, should be made at random BEFORE the Thursday practice date.

Another suggestion: first seversal row will be not be included in the reservations.

What do you think? (I would like to try this!)
:)

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Rich, you might be on to something. I think reserved seating could be a nice security blanket for teams that want to make sure they've got the seats they'll need, but I think it would ultimately have some major problems. There are two reasons.

One- People will complain a LOT about "the angle" they view from or that "they got there early and should have had the seats in the middle"... etc.
Two- Some teams are bound to reserve way more seats than they'll actually need, and then we'll be back where we started.

But, it could still be a good idea.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Hey all,
not to be a nag or anything about GP, but at the St. Louis regional FIRST itself corded off an entire section of seats including the aisle with caution tape for what i am guessing were the VIPs, there were only about 10 people max sitting there and at least 50 seats. This action blocked off our only easy exit to and from the field/pits, which was not advantageous for our scouting team. We had to go all the way up to the top of the arena and back down the stairs again just to get to the arena floor. I know that the VIPs and sponsors play a big part in this organization but it seemed like it would have been a hazard to anybody in an emergency situation. Oh well maybe im just nagging but I thank them for fixing this dilemma in the second day of competition.

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

Agreed and good points. :) :)
With random assignments of the rows/blocks of seats made before the teams arrive on Thursday to minimumize bias for one team over another. If they get good or bad seat then it is just luck. This also eliminates team members rushing in on Thursday with a row of tape to hold seats.

The regional organizer will issue seating maps to the teams on Thursday registration. They will indicates the team's reserved seated. This may hopefully eliminate some of the problem seen at regionals with small seating capacity (like NYC).

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

If you *really* wanted to do something like that, tally up the total number of people on all the teams (As reported to FIRST through the TIMS) and find the average of that, then give that number of seats to every team. If a team wants the best seating, they show up earliest, and put their team name on the section of a sign that has a seating diagram, where they want to sit.

Cory

Re: A Not So Gentle reminder to display Gracious Professionalism
 

In some places hosting a regional competition. It can be cold or warm (depending where your at) Listen to the weather report hours b4 you leave for the cometition. Even if you live just a few blocks away from the site. Knowing what the weather will be like will avoid unnesscary clothing clutter other then Team Jackets.

The first come first serve idea could work as well. The teams that show up the earliest. Can mark where they would like to sit. However this could be done months in advance espicially if its the same venue from the past year.

Unfortunately NYC does not have the extra seating to host clothing (not like NJ anyway where Half of one side is Field / Team Sitting and the other half was the Pits and empty chairs.

Bring what you will need to the competition and not stuff that will clutter the entertainment. I see many team members who walk around with Game Boys. Your going to cheer your team on not to see who can save The princess in Mario Bros. I'm pretty certain that the Competition is exciting enough with out Tetris being played. However if you do bring some side entertainment label it and also put it in the suggested box above when not in use instead of leaving it in ure jacket which could be blocking seats. (Teams can't say they don't have a KOP box b/c A) Each team gets 2 per year B) If you don't have a KOP box I'm sure soem teams out there have the Stack Attack Bins from last year.

A basic kit of things to bring is one or two of the KOP boxes that way you can throw all your stuff in the boxes (plus its stackable). Which means if you stack it correctly they'll be some space saving going on.

Other then that I'm pretty cool with how the teams cheer on everyone. If someone were to jump up and make some sudden cheers i would keep my mouth quiet yes it disturbs me watching the game but i know i would do the same thing if i was sitting in their shoes. I'll edit this post if I find any other ideas

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Let's look at things from the other PoV: a loner (such as myself) looking for a place to sit. I myself will choose a place to sit for one of two reasons. Either I have friends on the team I am sitting with, or I want a place to get a nice view of the competition (although IMO the higher seats are better view points, but I digress). The first choice is really easy to get a seat with the team. The second is a little difficult. I always ask if I can sit in a team's section. And to this day, no one's said no to me. You can talk about the game with some new faces and get some nice camera shots without obstructing someone's view.

Anywho, the moral of the story: ask a team if you can nab one of their seats. I'm pretty sure most people will let you.

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I mostly agree with Mr. Wong's suggestion, but I have a few suggestions. Seating reservations could be done online before the event at first come first serve with a limited number of seats per team (no more than the number of people on your team attending and less for HUGE teams). If your team is huge...then you shouldn't really mind breaking up into 2 groups, because each group should still have plenty of people. There should also be some reserved VIP seating in the front and some non-reserved general sesating as well...for non-team associated spectators. Overall, I believe that this would solve many of the problems...and for people who would like a better view, you could move to another seat for your team's matches (like EddieMcD said, people usually let you sit with them if possible) or stand somewhere like down behind the drivers station or elsewhere out of the way of other people. Also, the seating could have pre-planned sections in the middle/front (not by number of people per team) that would be reserved for people in alliances for the finals. There is always a break between seeding matches and quarter-final matches...plenty of time for teams to switch seats to allow the only teams left competing to have better seats for the more entertaining finals. It would be like an extra reward for getting that far. This system probably still have many flaws, but it is just a suggestion waiting for improvements.

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I know what you are talking about. At Stl, would take a break from working on the bot (when everything was OK, at least) to go watch some matches. I would go into the stands, find an EMPTY ROW, sit down, only to have some lady from THREE ROWS UP yell at me for sitting in her team's section!

There are no assigned team sections!

Am I against saving seats? YES! there are not enough seats for every single person there to have a personal reserved seat! there are enough seats for everyone who wants to sit to sit, but not enough seats that everyone who wants to sit can have one, and everyone working in the pits can have one, etc. etc.

please, stop saving seats. When I am looking for a seat to watch elimanation and there are nearly no open seats, to find an empty section (no jackets, etc.) only to be told not to sit there by some person who apparently thinks they own the building . . jeez! I wound up sitting behind the driver's station, where the view is blocked by the ball holder, only to watch those 'reserved' seats sit empty for the entire elimination rounds.

Argh. If I hadn't wanted to avoid a scene I would have told those designated 'seat-savers' to go **** themselves.

Putting a jacket over a chair is one thing, but putting an adult in the stands to tell non-team members not to sit in a section is downright wrong. Grrr.

About gracious proffessionalism. I was entering early in the morning on Saturday, and held the door for a couple guys pushing a tool cart. As they passed, they said something about that being GP. Is the world so wrong that holding a door for a couple guys pushing a cart is special? Isn't that supposed to be normal and ordinary and whatnot?