New Penalty Thread -
 

Hi all,

I want a thread for anyone to list what penalties they saw called, and how many points for each.

Please don't list a specific penalty unless you saw it or are sure of it, and
please no commentary on the fairness of the penalty.

Just a pure thread for the purpose of listing every possible foul.

(While I thought I knew the rules, some of the penalty calls surprized me somewhat) :ahh:

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

I'm surprised that you think you saw penalties called that you do not know about. Every single penalty is mentioned in either Section 4 or Section 7 of the manual - and they are all called out clearly.

So - can you give some examples of where you are confused?

Thanks,

Aidan

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

The only ones I saw were robots going into the ball corral and HP's reaching outside of the ball corral. Those were both 10 points each, I think.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Quicky, there are 10 pt penalties and 1 25 point penalty.
10 Point penalties that count against you are either the robot reaching in or the human reaching out, Someone other than the designated human player scoring balls, etc.

The 25 point penalty is having a robot reaching arround to trigger the bonus release ball.

There are also penalties that Disable the robot (SAFETY ISSUES). Sometime a penalty that disables the robot also DQs them for that match. Examples: entanglement, touching the carpet outside the FOP.

There are 10 point penalties for goal tending or removing
a ball from a goal - these count for the opposing team.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Aiden,
As you are the head ref at UTC next weeked, I just to want to point out some issues that we have noticed at the last two regionals.

Refs need to check the color of offending robots, the blue team should not be penalized for the red robot driving into the blue ball chute.

Also in terms of robots pushing robots, if the blue robot pushes the red robot into the ball chute only the blue team should be penalized.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Thanks for the tips Tyler... no worries though... I'll go out on a limb and make the brash claim that I know the rules as well as just about anyone out there.

:)

Aidan

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

well not really a penalty I thought I'd mention a robot got DQed in one match @ UCF.....according to the refs whom I talked with at the end of the day that particular team tipped over a team that was, in their opinion, done with the match (the tipping happened in the last few seconds of the match)....if the referees feel it is blatant agression they will DQ you.....

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

at ucf i saw a goaltending penalty

a robot uncapped a mobile goal and the human shot a ball and it hit the 2X ball that the robot had and the refs called goaltending

it was either 5 or 10 points i can really remember tho

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

at the PNW regional I saw a variety of "breaking the plane" of the ball chute penalties and saw my team DQ'd for entanglment (and yep it was a legal DQ we changed how the rope attached after that)

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Now, one big question we had was with the 25 point penalty. Is it for knock the ball off while an arm is outside of the metal pipeing, or is it for if an arm goes out, comes back in, and then hits the ball off while inside the pipeing?

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

ok two things yet both are the same penalty which were assesed against our team at GLR

1.) Human player touched the line at teh back of the box.. yes touched not went over... 10 point penalty

2.) Coach stepped out of the box 25 seconds or so after a match and prior to the head ref signaling to get the bot... 10 point penalty

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Team 007 and their partners got 2 10 pt penalties in one match, in NJ, in an early match, but no clue why. On the card was just the ref's name and 10pt checked off twice. They guessed that someone touched the line twice but no way to find out.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

I think I know the match you're referring to. Actually, your coach was standing on the line at the back of the box (10 pt penalty), and when I told him, he misunderstood me and jumped out of the box, then came back in (another 20 pts, but I only gave him 10). There wasn't any penalty for stepping out of the box after the match.

Also, the referees made it clear to all of the teams on Friday morning that the lines counted as out of bounds. There's a lot of room in the boxes to move around in - no reason to push your boundaries.

Still, you guys did a good job. Don't let a little thing like penalties get you down.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

OK folks.... here is the summary for you:
Point Penalties

• 25 Point
  • Bonus Ball removed by reaching around ball tee pipe structure
• 10 Point
  
  • Crossing starting line in autonomous mode
  • Player or coach leaving team zone
  • Touching balls in autonomous mode
  • Robot assisting small ball into goal
  • Robot goaltending or de-scoring (10 point increase to opposing alliance)
  • Robot blocking more than 1 ball chute at a time
  • Pinning > 10 sec
  • Robot in ball corral, pushing another robot into the ball corral
  • Human player touching a mobile goal in ball corral
  • Stepping out of driver-station area not affecting score

Disables

• Robot operation deemed unsafe
• Out of bounds and applying force to out of bounds to rejoin play
• Ignoring warning regarding damage to field, and /or goals
• Human player touching a robot in the ball corral
• Coach touching controls
• Violating starting envelope

Disqualification

• Repeated damage to field and/or goals
• Destructive / malicious behavior
• No-shows

DISABLE AND Disqualification

• Team members extending any part of body onto playing field
• Objects or persons aiding human player
• Non-human player ball throw
• Coach touching controls
• Intentionally tipping a goal or damaging goal pole
• Extending under or illegally grabbing goal (after 1 warning)
• Outcome of match affected by passing starting line or leaving team zone

:)

Aidan

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Aidan if it is all right seeing as how you will be a judge for UTC could I just ask for clarification? Is their two different pinnings (you said it twice) or just the >10? By starting envelope you meaqn where the robot sits and is touching the player station right? and finally for the human players is their a line drawn on the carpet benieth the metal so the plane is clearly marked?

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

I'll field those questions.
A) Lol, Aidan must have been copying from the Referee Guide - they have pinning listed twice (Assume it's a typo).
B) Yes - Starting Envelope is the 30"X36"X60" spot straddling the line against the diamond plating where your robot should be before the match begins.
C)The ball corral actually has a 1" aluminum "lip" at the bottom which clearly defines the plane. If you go over the lip, then you have crossed the plane.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

^^^^ Yeah - what he said.

:)

Aidan

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

I was just wondering if it is in question the a robot is shooting a projectile of some sort more than ten fet per second how would you check to make sure that they are not. I saw a few teams with like fishing rods or something flexable like that fling it towards the bar. It was obvious that they were not launching it over ten feet per second. It made me wonder though how they would check that.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Videotape and freeze frame with single frame advance makes an effective speedometer for things like that.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

If I'm not mistaken, I believe there was an update, as well as already been incorporated into the Game Rules (G20) that a robot that goaltends or de-scores small balls will be assessed a 10pt penalty. In the "marked-up version" of the Rules, it strikes-through the part about adding the point to the opposing team.
Can you confirm my understanding of that?

I also assume that if a small ball were de-scored from team A, that team B would get the 10pt penalty, and team A would still get their original 5pts for that ball.
Sorry, I know this isn't the original intent of thread, but wanted to bring up the point and have it verified.....

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

If you goaltend, as in using the robot to block or aid a ball into the goal, your alliance will be fined 10pts (blue/green or red/green flag). The first version said that for goaltending that the opposite alliance of the robot goaltending will given twice the ball's point value. That was striked out and replaced with the first sentence I posted.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Crossing the plane was the biggest one we saw. We got nailed once and it cost us the match. However, in one match our robot was on its back and our partner had forgotten to take out their battery so they couldn't run, but we still managed to win the match because our human player rocks and the other two teams got two penalties.

It was actually a bit discouraging that so many matches were being decided by penalties.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

The only penalties I saw were offsides (35 or 40 points a piece)

our alliance partners kept on crossing over

It happened twice to us, the first time it happened we won anyway
:D
however two matches later it happened a second time we were ahead by 39 points and we got a 40 point penalty and we lost by 1 point. :mad:

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Hey! Check the date. You are two years ex-post-facto.

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Im gonna start a new thread for this year

Re: New Penalty Thread -
 

Well - OK, if you must. But a word of caution to any and all who value their reputation, we get to use 47 reps/day.