Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

Atleast all of the refs' decisions are uniform. Every example that has so far been given of similar incidents they were ruled as a no hang as well this one for 41. If half of those were counted and the other half were not then I would be cocerned, however, with all of the judges seeming to agree that it is a no hang, then that must be the rule and not up to interpretation.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

I'm sorry my post, was a little to harsh, i edited it. You guys are right, the refs obviously had no bad intentions in mind, its just that its a little frustrating when it seems like your playing by two different sets of rules. Once again, i apologize.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

Yes it is frustrating. We were having some operator (me) errors and when we first hung in the real competition our back piece of Lexan with our numbers on it was being held on by one cable tie and was touching the platform and it didn't count as a hang. The refs made the right call because of the specifics of the rules it was just a lil frustrating to lose the round.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

Isn't that the same as saying "well, we had our hook up on the bar but didn't have the time to winch up. But if you removed our wheels we would be hanging."

The belt is still a part of the robot and is touching the platform. Looking at the rules, I agree with the call that it's not hanging.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

Yea, that match really did suck. We sheared our left drive pully and we managed to get up and hang with only our right side operational. Cruel twist of fate. Luckily we got someone to the machine shop to make another timing pulley from some Al bar stock. In the meantime, we used the dremel to make new notches!
Thanks to whomever took that pic!

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

I say give them the hang because is that tread really supporting any weight. If they believed that it was then they should have taken the tread away and seen if the robot would have fallen. Its like sayin OMG there a little piece of string that is touching the platform and its supporting weight :ahh:. They seriously should have been given the hang.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

Looks like that white nub of a piston or something is supporting weight.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

Based on the way we called the rules at the Detroit Regional, I would say that is not hanging. Yes, the robot is supported entirely by the bar. BUT, a part of the robot is touching the platform. You can try to argue that it's not supporting anything... but it doesn't need to be supporting to discount the hang; just touching.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

This is strange. It has been established already that, according to the rules, if the robot is still touching it is not hanging. Furthermore, even if that part wasn't in the rules, one could deduce whether the robot was hanging or not with a little common sense:

1) The tread is still part of the robot, being partially attached, and all.
2) The tread is supporting its own weight.

The fact that the tread doesn't weigh very much does not preclude the fact that part of the robot is supported by the ground. Sure it's unfortunate that they couldn't hang, but that doesn't warrant them getting 50 points. For those of you that say you could remove the tread to see if the robot would hang, I implore you to read this again and think about it.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

I understand the wording of the rules and all, it just seems pretty dumb that if they had had a worse malfunction where the tread came completely off, they would have got more points. They should have designed their robot to break more spectaularly, i guess.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

That white nub is completly in the air.


People, will you please read all the posts before throwing in your two cents.
Also, please read the rules before commenting on them

Thank you.
Wetzel

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

No, hang, as the rules state no part of the robot may be touching the ground. Though, if I was on 47 I probably would be feeling very different. Though the rules state it. I'm a little surprised at the ruling. The refs at the midwest regional seemed to be extremely leniant about hanging. I saw a couple of robots hanging on the very inner part of the connecction between the vertical and horizontal bar, which was ruled illegal in other regionals.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

What if the belt was no longer attached to the robot in any way, but just lying on the platform. Then would you count them as hanging?

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

I would say, yes that would count as hanging. If the timing belt was lying on the carpet or on the platform, in no way attached or semi-attached to the robot, this hang would be counted. If portions of your robot unintentionally detach from your robot they are not considered parts of your robot anymore for the scoring of the match (like light covers from last year, etc.). But in this case, the tread is still in the robot and touching the 1’ tall step. Last year teams were deemed not on the HDPE platform because a string or zip-tie was touching the grating. To me this seems perfectly consistent with FIRST’s past interpretations / enforcements of rules.

Re: pic: YMTC: Is 41 hanging?
 

Joe Ross has a good point - the rules as written are already lenient and forgiving - if a part falls off your bot completely (say a piece of foam bumper somewhere on the field) it could be agrued that your bot is not 'hanging' because of piece of it is lying on the floor in the middle of the field - therefor your WHOLE bot is not hanging - but the rules do not go to that extreem

the reason the bot in the photo is not hanging is the belt is part of the bot and its supported by the floor - that part is broken though, right? ok - so what if an arm broke and was supported by the floor? what if a cable broke on one side and two wheels were in the air and two were on the floor - you could argue that if the bot was lifted high enough the remaining cable would support it

but that IS the nature of the challege - to get your WHOLE bot up in the air, not just the working parts, the broken parts too - if its still attached then no hang.

BTW something similar happened last year - a team put a little flag on their bot so they could see it on the other side of the ramp - at the end of the match the bot was ontop of the ramp, but the little flag was drooped over and touching the top of the side railing - no 50 points for them either.