Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

I'm riding the bus to Atlanta, but, out of curiosity, I checked out the Bush calculator. This is what I found:

1) My car, a VW Jetta TDI wagon was not listed. Maybe it gets too good of mileage?
2) You have to have a street address, not just a city and state to get a calculation, requiring that you look up an address at your destination, even to get an approximate calculation.

Using Yahoo Maps to get the distance, and a regular calculator, here is what an extra 50 cents a gallon would cost me if I drove:

506 miles/45mpg=11.24 gallons each way, or $5.62 more money if fuel went up 50c/gallon. That's $11.24 for the round trip. The 45mpg is what I get driving at around 75mph on the highway.


Or course, the reality of Kerry's gas tax proposal is that it was basically made up by the Bush campaign. Here is a summery which I found at http://infopunks.net/

"As we've noted before , Kerry's support for a 50-cent-a-gallon increase in the gasoline tax happened a decade ago, back when regular was selling for a national average of $1.01 per gallon. Kerry's support was so fleeting that the only evidence of it to surface so far are two old newspaper clips in which Kerry complains that he deserved more credit as a deficit-cutter. He never voted for, or sponsored, legislation to impose such a tax, and he doesn't support one now, when the price is just under $1.76."

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

I wouldn't say that. There have been so many casualties of these "oppressed" people. sure you could say that we liberated them but if you want to say that you would also have to say that we bombed these "opressed people" into the ground. These liberated opressed poeple were so greatful they even recently gave a parade to some of the coalition's fallen...by dragging their bodies through the streets.


Way back in the 60's the directer of the FBI was Hoover, a known racist. Hoover got his hands on some info that made him salivate uncontrollably. It turns out that there was a "communist threat" posed by a civil rights leader. A communist writer was following this guy around while researching for a book that he was writing. You may know this leader as the Martin Luther King Jr. So hoover got himself permission to wire tap this guy and some time down the road the FBI "leaked" some humiliating statements about MLK. The Patriot act poses this same threat and more. Anyone can tap anyone that they want. It gives FBI agents the right to go anywhere, on duty, without showing a badge or anything. This includes public meetings. there has even been FBI agents in chilling at protests because of this act. I think Ashcroft wants to keep a close eye on liberals.

www.bushorchimp.com

It has helped, but not very much. there is a trickle down effect for cuts to the wealthy. However there is also the exact reverse. Kerry want to roll back the cuts and give them to the poor. This means there will be more money for the masses. The masses will start purchasing more. you can see where this is going. it ends up with a boosted economy and more jobs. Cuts for the wealthy and cuts for the poor end up in the same thing. But why would bush give the cuts to the rich and not the poor? You can go ahead and decide who needs it more. If people aren't going to be getting paid for their overtime work, at least they can get some tax cuts. Bottom line...doen't mess with the working man. its just wrong.


The economy is poor in part to hog-wild defense spending. Bush's fault. though recession is natural in economics, bush went the wrong way.

wouldn't a republican congress and white house scare you? it does me. and that is reality. Don't worry about a d/d combo. congress is republican. lets put a dem in the white house.

By god! how strong of a military do you want! 87 bil! that was in one congressional bill alone. While there aren't as many deaths in Iraq as vietnam there has been more deaths in iraq than in any other conflict since vitnam.

Okay. i won''t debate. i am pro-choice. but if these beliefs are religously motivated how can you support the slaughter of innocent people in iraq? I will debate abortion with anyone who wants to be educated.

I don't like kerry. hes too much of a money man but the US cannot go another 4 years with bush in charge.

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

/rants

You can't believe everything you see on TV. The media chooses to report on horrific cases that just make us look bad in Iraq. Of course there are going to be casualties, how couldn't there be considering what we're trying to do over there? But in reality, there are so many Iraqi's that are grateful for what the U.S. has done. The media never seems to report on any of the good things we do in Iraq... and don't dare say "that's because there aren't any", because you are wrong. :mad:

/ends rant

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

There are many Iraqis (note the lack of apostrophe) out there that are gracious for our removal of Saddam Hussein. However, they also have the right to shape their own destiny - they want us out of there. We are NOT the police force of the world, and we shouldn't force our ways on them. What works here may not work there - they are a very different culture from our own and installing a US-centered government is sure to fail.

There are good things that we've done in Iraq, as well as some atrocities (sp?).

I will say, I support our troops. That's why I think we should bring them home.

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

So you're telling me we should just pull all of our troops out of Iraq??... If we want another dictator like Saddam to come to power, then yes, but obviously that's not a good idea.

And please excuse my grammar mishap :ahh:

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

Well to somewhat pull this thread back on topic, the reason why I'm voting for Kerry is because he has a plan for Iraq which is much more comprehensive than Bush's plan. I think the only person who wanted to completely pull troops out of Iraq were Kucinich and Sharpton (and maybe Moseley-Braun...it's been a while so I forget things). Here's part of Kerry's plan:

I agree that we are not the policemen of the world but that doesn't mean I'm an isolationist either. There is a medium. That's to be a leader and pull in other countries to help us (and by other countries, I don't just mean Britain).

I DO believe in international institutions and I DO believe in having long term plans. This is why I find the Democratic party's ideals aligning with my vision. I think we look beyond the immediate and try to fix long term goals, which may not be popular, because we might have to pay the costs now for problems. However, addressing issues as they arise instead of simply dealing with them when they become huge is important because just remember who will be inheriting this world. If the US has problems in the future that requires our allies, future generations will have to deal with the countries we alienate. Future generations will have to deal with terrorism that stems from countries we angered in our unilateral actions. Future generations will have to deal with the environmental problems we let grow as we focused on other issues. Future generations will have to deal with the collapse of social security. Future generations will have to deal with the collapse of public education if we try to delay the problems with vouchers. That is unless we deal with them now. Students procrastinate, our government should not.

I tried to sit out of this thread for a few days because I know when I'm passionate about a subject, I can get long winded, but I had to address some issues. Also, Kerry delivered the speech I quoted above at UCLA and I got to deliver the speech to him and his teleprompter guy...then sit in the 2nd row. It was very cool and I had to brag. :)

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

I've been quiet and I intend to stay quiet, but I have to say this..

The last time forces overtook a country and let them recover on their own it led to the rise of a man that was mostly responsible for the deaths of nearly 10 million people...(Hitler). After that, the country was held under control of many different countries for many years...if the major countries would have followed through in the first place and helped with the recovery, Hitler would most likely never have never come to power...

Even though I agree that something needed to be done in Iraq, many mistakes were made. Since the United Nations is a big joke you really can't rely on them at all. We're here in Iraq now, and even though they don't like it and many Americans don't like it, there really isn't much you can do except play this out and guide them...

This whole Iraq thing is similar to a teenager vs the parent. The coalition forces are the parents and the Iraqi people are the teenagers. The teenager is at the age where they want to be let go from the parents and be free, but they are still developing into an adult...they are almost there, but not quite. Many positive steps in the right direction but since a lot of the media is biased towards the left all you, the people see is the violence and deaths (even though you can't disregard that..).


I don't really consider myself a fan of the Bush Administration, but you'd never see me voting for John Kerry. Honestly, I'm surprised Kerry even has set positions on issues because they flip flop so much.....he's all talk and a walking contradiction (term supplied by Ryan Dognaux :p). Originally he supported the war on Iraq and when he noticed the Howard Dean uprising and his opposition to the war he switched it to he didn't support it because apparently thats what the voters wanted to hear...now I'm not even sure what his position is. Also I saw on NBC news the other night that Mr Kerry sent a letter showing his support for Operation Desert Storm...but 2 weeks later he sent a letter out showing his opposition for the war...I mean come on people why would you want this guy to lead your country?

I'm sure he's a nice guy and all, but his campaign people really need to work on the way he appears in public. There is only so much you can do to a boring and dull person to make them seem exciting...and I think they went beyond his limit there... I wonder if he has the same people that ran Al Gore's campaign or the people that made Bob Dole appear to be this grouchy old man during his campaign in 96...


I consider myself to be a moderate republican and I'm not an uber Bush Admin supporter, but he has made great progress in protecting this country. Over the last year or so I have done much research into the Department of Homeland Security, and to correct the earlier poster who said something to the extent of Bush made the government larger with the DHS....DHS isn't really much of a new department. The DHS was created to have better communication between organizations such as INS, Secret Service, the Coast Guard, ATF and many others. Basically they took several organizations that already exist and told them all to report to one guy. Yeah so someone got a new office and there is another chair filled at cabinet meetings, but nothing new was actually created. It was just reorganized.


George Bush and his administration are no saints...duh...none of these DC boys & girls are..but the whole of the other party challenging the current office holder in a election is to convince the voting public that they can do a better job then the current person. Has John Kerry convinced me? Nope and I seriously doubt he ever will...

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

The comparison to Hitler is unhelpful, DJ. The situations revolving around Germany is *completely* different than the one around Iraq, mostly because WWI was a purely economic/landgrab/colonial war, not to mention the specific circumstances that led up to the creation of a German state at all (I'll bore you with more details if you really want my explanation behind it, just ask). To suggest that pulling out of Iraq would incite a new Hitler to rise (subtlely as you did) is just plain wrong.

The UN does not have to be a joke, and is considerably because the US disregards them while urging other countries to follow their directives, and other similar international institutions fail for the same reasons. Take a look at the Kyoto Treaty, the CTBT, nuclear proliferation. Lead by example, and that doesn't mean acting on faulty (at whatever level) intelligence that has no actual ground information network.

To Ryan above, it may be true that the media portrays the violence too much, but consider the violence they don't portray at all: that towards Iraqis. Approximately 10000 Iraqis have died since "Operation Iraqi Freedom" began. I am dissapointed in all the Democratic candidates for missing that (save Kucinich, you go man).

Peace is a process. Knee jerk reactions to perceived threats, leaving thousands and thousands dead and more injured, Iraqi and American alike, are not going to make the world safer or more peaceful. In fact, attacking Middle Eastern countries will only create a hotbed of terrorist recruitment. Do you think they really care what the debate over here is?

What is really needed is for everyone to calm down and first try to understand why these things happen. Why did Osama break off his friendship with the US? Permanent bases in Saudi Arabia, considered holy land. Why do many terrorist organizations form, and why do they hate us so much? I don't know all the answers there, but I'll bet you that US foreign economic policy is not helping in the matter. If we can start tracing the reasons back, we can understand why we hate each other so much, and that is the first step to dissolving that hate.

I realize I rambled from what my original point was, and from what the topic here is, but hopefully I didn't make any overly stupid comments. I believe we can have a better world, but Bush isn't really interested in trying. I want to vote Green, but if California is tight in November, my vote is unfortunately going to have to go to the lesser of two evils.

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

The main terms of the Versailles Treaty consisted of transferring a number of German colonies and territories to other countries, and:

(1) occupation and special status for the Saar under French control;

(2) demilitarization and a fifteen-year occupation of the Rhineland;

(3) German reparations of £6,600 million;

(4) a ban on the union of Germany and Austria;

(5) an acceptance of Germany's guilt in causing the war;

(6) provision for the trial of the former Kaiser and other war leaders;

(7) limitation of Germany's army to 100,000 men with no conscription, no tanks, no heavy artillery, no poison-gas supplies, no aircraft and no airships;

(8) the limitation of the German Navy to vessels under 100,000 tons, with no submarines;

Basically, it was an extreme case of the implementation of what are now called "sanctions" that probably led to the rise of Hitler. Just the forcing of huge, for the time, "reparations" on a bankrupt and war ravaged country was enough to insure disaster. Then there was the attempt to demilitarize Germany, which worked for a while, but obviously not for long.

Sorry about this post being a little off-topic. I won't let it happen again.

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

Kerry.

I'm suprised that there's really no posts about jobs. Bush has watched as companies have begun shipping jobs overseas. Not to mention sat idley while numerous layoffs occured in the tech sector.

I was watching the nightly news yesterday and they talked about the jobs coming back. Something like 308,000 jobs were fulfilled last month. What they failed to elaborate on was the other number they reported: the unemployment rate; which increased. Just great guys, it's wonderful we have created more jobs, but it doesn't really matter if more people are losing them than having them created.

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

Even though there have been a lot jobs moved overseas during this administration, its nothing new. That has been going on since the Carter Administration when businesses first started figuring out that they can have foreigners make their products for 10 cents an hour over paying an american worker 20 dollars an hour..yeah I know it really sucks.

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

I am not surprised that CD seems evenly split on this issue, I think, but I am a bit surprised by the candidate that's currently in the lead. It's not what I would have expected. I think anyone who knows me remotely well knows who I'm going to vote for.

More important, to me, however, is the discussion about a gas tax. Even if it is something that's practically ancient history -- what's wrong with it? I mean, really, I'd be happy if we made gas $10/gallon or something. Maybe people would reconsider using their cars for everything and start taking public transportation. Where none exists, maybe they'll start demanding it. Imagine that.

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

I registered to vote the other day. I'll turn 18 on October 18th, but it isn't 30 days before the election (as is required), so they got me all signed up (as under age, it'll get switched to active voter on my birthday)so I can vote in November. I come from a very political family, so I've been following local, state and national politics and races since I was little.

Anyway, after years of watching and learning, I'm happy that I can finally give my input (in the form of a vote, every one counts). My choice is Kerry, and I hope he picks Edwards or Clark as VP. So...yeah...Yay for being (almost) 18!!!

Take care,
--Phyz :)

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

I love the point of public transportation, we americans love our cars too much, and we have to stop complaining about gas prices, in europe they pay three times as much, and isn't it surprising that public transportation there is more common? I think not.

Re: Kerry or Bush and why?
 

Bush for me...if I could vote :rolleyes: .


I'm not going to go into a great deal of explanation because....I'm sick of debating this with my friends..etc. So basically..I agree with conservative principles, and bush is a president who has actually done something. Everyone likes to bash him for going to war in Iraq...but they forget to mention all the atrocities Saddam commited. Yeah...I could spout about this for a long time..but I'll shut up now.

And another thing...from an earlier post...I'm from Iowa....so I'm not conforming to the map.