Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

It couldn't be better said. There are people who equally covet each; and to each their own. This debate, while bringing a lot of issues to the forefront, mainly reiterates what we already know: Different people value different things.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Amanda is exactly right. The FIRST goals are for these guys and girls to be inspired, each in their own way. Each person should get from FIRST whatever they want out of FIRST. A national chairman's award would certainly be sweet, but I don't think most people think of it in terms of preferring one to another. As mentioned before, it is something that just happens as a result of what you do as a team. I'm sure there are a few people on my team that would prefer an animation award over anything else! If they are inspired by that, then hey … awesome. It sure is interesting but I wouldn’t call it alarming.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

It's difficult to word this without making it seem as if winning the Championship and believing in the virtue of the Chairman's Award are mutually exclusive. I recognize that they're not.

But, in any individual, there has to be some focus upon which they expend the majority (or plurality, perhaps) of their energy. So, it seems that approximately half of the people in FIRST are worried more about winning than they are about inspiring others.

So -- if winning is more important than further inspiration of others in certain people, I'm really interested in learning more about the qualities they admire in people like Dean, Woodie, Dave and everyone else that's typically held in such high regard. I understand that it's entirely possible to admire someone while still disagreeing with them -- I disagree with John all the time :) But, with comments from Dean that have repeatedly reiterated that this is not a "robot contest" and the like, what about him do people find appealing that helps to justify their competitive drive?

I've, in the past, also been party to saying things like, "whatever inspires people is good," and I don't entirely disagree with that sentiment. I just think it's become something of a cop out among FIRST participants who haven't examined their motivations in useful ways -- so that people may continue to be inspired by them and their actions. If a strong desire for winning a Championship has been what you're inspired to pursue, that's fine, but how is that desire to win actively inspiring other people to, well, inspire other people?

The Championship indirectly inspires people to learn more, try harder and perform better. The Chairman's Award inspires people to actively promote learning, effort, and excellent performance -- not only be example, but by direct interaction and mentorship. One effort is one-dimensional, while the other is multi-faceted and comprehensive.

Again, I'm not trying to silence anyone's opinion or render it invalid -- only encourage more discussion and examination about the unconventional ways people have been inspired and find methods of integrating those methods into a more comprehensive ideology that can do as much good as possible.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Usually, I stray from the whole Chairmans/Championship debate, but I would like to throw my thoughts out there....

I am one of those people who values the Championship over the Chairmans. Though the ideals of what Chairmans is about are good, I have never really been one to believe that the purpose they uphold is truely what "inspires" students. I come from a team with a long history in FIRST. Over my ten years of involvement, I have grown up with a number of people with a certain passion for FIRST. I love the games, I love the excitement, and I love the friendships involved. These are all things which I can honestly say that I have gained from just plainly and simply being a competitor. For instance, I look to team 121. Back when I was a student, they grew into one of our biggest rivals. Over the years, the rivalry remained, but as a result of that rivalry, a friendship grew. I am proud to call the guys from 121 my friends, and I still love to compete on a high level with or against them. This competitive spirit is in my opinion, exactly what inspires people to engineering, as it is what inspired me. What I have found with Chairmans, with all due respect to the past chairmans winners, is that the award has been judged on a gimick basis. Though deserving of awards for all the hard work and effort that these teams put into the programs they build within their team to promote FIRST, I think that these teams only represent a portion of those who truely deserve recognition for their efforts. I think there are tons of teams out there who focus extremely hard on really exciting their own students, giving them a passion for the competition aspect. That passion is most definately contagious. I am proud to say that I am part of one of these teams who goes out of their way to get all students on its team involved, as well as make sure that the quality of their education is at a high level. Lots of things go on behind the doors of NYPRO on a given night during build time that never see the light of day on a chairmans award basis. For instance, the hard working engineers who actually spend lots of time sitting down with students to tutor them in math, science, or in some cases even english. I know for a fact that my team is not the only team who does this. I think things like that are just as important, if not more important than starting up 10 to 12 lego teams, starting an offseason competition, or initiating some sort of program to promote FIRST. Rule number 1: If your students are happy, if they are excited, if they are competitive, they will keep comming back...I've done so for 10 years...I'm not the only one. I choose the national championship over chairmans because I dont need an award to tell me that my team does an excelent job at promoting FIRST...I already know they do...from within. If we win a national championship, its a feeling of accomplishment that tells me that we worked as a team, we struggled as a team, we came together as a team, and in the end...we succeeded as a team.

I'll take that any day.

Good Luck,
Andy Grady

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

That is an awesome rule Andy. You know what’s so cool about this discussion? Everyone is exactly right! I don’t say that just to avoid stepping on toes. I am a firm believer in that as long as you have good intentions, try your hardest and stay within the mission and vision of FIRST, it makes little difference how you choose to give yourself. Everyone has their own definition of what giving back and making a difference really mean and of which ways are the best. The bottom line is, students can see when you are impassioned about something and they respond to that. I agree that it is important to inspire other people to inspire other people, but I also think that it happens somewhat automatically when people are exposed to the fervor of FIRST. If you happen to inspire people in ways that lead to more tangible things that can be judged for a Chairman’s award, so be it. Those things are important, too. I just say: to each their own and thanks for doing what you do, because you are doing great.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I would gladly take either. I think our team is perceived as a Chairman's competitor but we are trying to equally build a competitive robot. The thing about the Chairman's is it's kind of like the proverbial mountain that you climb because it's there. We have studied other teams and incorporated ideas that have worked and ideas that have not worked. We also have taken some of these ideas and advanced them or they have helped us down a road to new ideas. Without the Chairman's as a goal I doubt we would have been this aggressive to develop our team. To me the Chairman's is not what a team does but what a lot of good people from that team are able to accomplish. At this point our team is going to Atlanta with every intention of winning a national championship and if we don't the Chairman's wouldn't be bad either but if neither one of those happen we have had a great time trying and we will do it again next year.

Go Blue
"CyberBlue that is"

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I'd take either...but I'd prefer the Chairman's. I don't have a long and poetic reason for why I feel that way...I just like helping people. :)

Looking at the current poll results...does this make sense to anyone else? Shouldn't it be equal?

(Screenshot is attached so you'll know what I'm talking about if it changes)

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I would choose a National Championship over Chairman award I think that from winning nationals you get publicity and therefore helps with the Chairmans award. Now let me elaborate on this a bit more. Last year as I reacall team 111 Wildstang won nationals. Later that next week if I believe they were featured on the CBS Morning News(i think). From that I'm sure in their interview they mentioned where they were from. So here their city is getting nationally known and Wildstang is spreading the spirit of FIRST. I'm not against the chairmans award infact I love the award, but i think that you accomplish more for FIRST on a national level if you win the Championship. When is the last time a team the won the National Chairmans award was on National Television?

sorry if it sounds confusing i can elaborate more if needed.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

The thing with the winners from last year appearing on TV is more people get that they are there because they won a competition. But how many people will understand this team is on here because the won an award for be spreding the spirit and idea of an organization. Not to say that they both shouldn't be honored every chance they can be, but the average person won't care about the that was chose by a group of judges to spread an idea opposed to winning a competition.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I think that winning the National Chairman's would be amazing. The whole idea of the Chairman's Award is what FIRST is all about. It shows that the winning team has done more than just build a robot. It shows that they have inspired others to build robots or enter into engineering. The team that wins national Chairman's is spreading the word of FIRST and getting other people to get involved. However, building a successful robot is also very important. If your team can build a winning robot, great! But if your team can become a part of your community and can inspire others and do more than build a robot, kudos to you! I also think that having a good robot is part of the Chairman's Award. I haven't seen a team win a Chairman's Award that has a failure of a robot. Some of the teams that win the Regional Chairman's win the Regional too (or are close to it).

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I would have to say National Championship, for one simple reason, that as a driver that is what you strive for - above all else that is the ultimate goal.


...my 1/2 cent from my retired driver mind.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Frankly I'd take either...

This is talking from regional experience with both.

Last year we won regional champion which was awesome for us as rookies. We were so into the competition is was a lot of fun and our team was completely clicking. And I know national awards are like 100 times better easily (National Rookie All-Star) than any regional award.

This year we are still doing good. Creativity award and 11th in seeding but everything hasn't quite been clicking like last year. We've struggled a lot more, learned a lot more at times, and worked way harder than last year at time(if it was possible). But everything just really never got to come together quite as well as last year. It was the whole second year after a really good first year thing just hard to match up to expectations. But I couldn't be prouder of my team. Through all this trouble they have managed to put in the effort to make a difference. I know this seemed hard on the everyone at times. Winning the regional chairman was the reward they recieved for this effort. I know they were really inspired by this in that they did get some recognition for their hard work and the whole year started to look a lot better (don't take it as our year was horrible, just not as smooth as the previous).

Now being inspired both through winning and the spirit of FIRST I don't know which has made the biggest impact on me. I still am definitely driven by the competition but can tell I really enjoy the chances to pass on the knowledge to others.

So everything else the same: Chairman's trophy is better (and probably has higher resale value..j/k) so I stick with Chairman's.

BTW - I will take any trophy they hand out. They are all so shiny.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I agree with that completely, I would love to get either one. I know our team won't get chairman's award because we didn't get it at a regional, but even though we can't get that, winning the championship looks great when you get back home. The people at school don't understand what Chairman's award is anyways, all they understand is whether you won or not and to them, the championship is winning, anything less just isn't. We got 3rd in the world a few years back and our school barely noticed. They were still focused on winning the state football championship instead of our placing 3rd in THE WORLD . This year I hope we can bring home the 1st place medals and show our school that Robotics can be cool, maybe spark some interest and get some more community support.

Thats my 2cents :cool:

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Our team would probably rather win the cahapionship, mainly because we didn't submit an app for chairmans. We hope for possible

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

i have to agree 100% winning the national championship does more for first than national chairmans. Team 25 has been able to do more for first because of the national title. We love spreading the word of first. Please do not think i am trying to take anything away from the national chairmans (we go for it every year) but it does not spread the word of first better than national tv. For people who never heard of first before there is more instant gradification of hearing National Champaion than National Chairman and a hell of alot easier to explain. Another thing everyone one builds a robot to win. NO ONE builds a robot to lose. Even if they know that they can not win that year they learn to become a better next year. Why even go to nationals with a robot if all you want to do is go for national chairmans.

shaun