National Championship or National Chairman's
 

This is a follow-up to my Regional Poll

Chairman's edged Champion at the regional level but what would you have to say about Nationals. Would you rather win the national championship or the National Chairman's award?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Without a doubt National Chairman's Award

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Never believed in the chairmans award....Championship for me

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

The competitive nature in me says Championship.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Ya i'm gonna have to go with the national championship as opposed to chairmans

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

For my four years on TechnoKats we never won the National Chairman's or Championship. Although we won the regional version of each one while I was there, and the stories I've heard from the past, and the mutliple rushes I felt from winning regional championship awards. I say National Championship.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

National Chairmans all the way. Once you win the national chairmans you can come back for life to win your first, second, or whatever it is national championship title. Plus I was lucky enough to be on RAGE the year we won the Championship and it was awesome but chairmans would be better.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I enjoy doing stuff for other people. It's just in my nature to help other people, and have fun doing it.:D
So I'd definitely have to say National Chairman's.:cool:

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

My Team all ready won National Chairman's, definetly championship for me.

-Aaron

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

The win at nats is not all its cracked up to be. they tell you all these great funa nd exciting things you get to do and it never happens. wheres the inspiration in that? national chirmans however means you are CONSTANTLY inspiring others. Now thats what FIRST is for me.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

For me, its National Chairmans Award, having a winning robot is just a part of FIRST. My team puts lots of work in year round. I started crying at LA cuz we won Chairmans Award, regionally. If we won nationally, being recognized for what we do as a whole and not just during the six week period, my team would be ecstatic for years to come. I would be crying hysterically for days to come.

The robot, its just a piece of the FIRST puzzle, whether u win or lose, u gain something, whether it be a lesson, or an awesome friend from a cross the country. I dont get worked up about that, the guys on our team get stressed out about that sometimes. Yep, all of the jocks on our team get extremely competive. Thats the only thing that gets me stressed out, when people on our team are bummed out because of a bad match.

Chairmans award, one of kind recognition, commemorating ur team as a whole. Like the gracious Proffesionalism awards we recieved from Team 60 as well as Team 22, (THANK U GUYZ SO MUCH!!! IT MEANS THE WORLD TO US)

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Oh I would most definatly have to say chairman's award. With it comes so much prestege and even hall of fame worthiness. Not to mention being qualified to attend the championships every year there after so you ahve more chances and time to win that Championship

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Championship all the way.

It depends on what you work on. For me, I was the driver, so winning the championship was as good as it gets. But for someone who works on the chairman's (which I believe Jon K. did in 2002, right?) that's as good as it gets.


Personally, I think it's called FIRST Robotics Competition for a reason.

would everyone still think the Chairman's is the 'most prestigious award' if FIRST had not told us every year?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Even though I believe in the Chairman's Award, I find it to be too corrupt. And although I like how it forces the FIRST market to constanly change and revamp itself, I don't like the reprocussions of that reinvention.

I'd much prefer a National Championship. It's easier to explain on your part, and on your sponsors part.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

i voted for Chairman's. i find it very easy to explain. use pro sports. does the best football team win every year? no. if they did...the colts would win at least once ;) the Chairman's doesn't go to the team who gets lucky (it takes luck to win...you can't deny it) it goes to the team who helps engineering the most in their community

could you tell me (through pm/e-mail (collinfultz@att.net) is fine if you don't want to post on CD the corruption? i'm wondering what I don't know and how it may be hurting me. thanks!

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Corrupt? :confused:
How so?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I second that, I dont see any problems with Chairmans Award...in fact, i cant IMAGINE any problems with the Chairmans Award.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Oy! Okay, okay...I'll explain. And please, I know that some of my viewpoints are...different than the normal FIRSTer, to say the least. That does not mean that they are not valid. Just because my opinion is different does not mean that I don't have valid, unique skills to bring to the program to make it better, and also does not mean that my viewpoints would skew my willingness to help FIRST if it contradicts what FIRST wants to do with itself. It's just how I feel, and I am trying to discuss my viewpoint in a gracious and professional manner...and I hope your responses are the same.

First of all, I like the idea of the Chairman's award itself. I think that we should be striving for something higher than a winning robot, since the point of the organization is to change the culture, not to build the best robot.

I also like how FIRST is running the Chairman's logistically now, with regional chairman's. I feel that this allows the judges to give more attention to an award of such importance. I'm also not saying that FIRST itself is corrupt. I think the judges do a fine job, and in having regional Chairmans before national Chairmans, it reinforces the judges relationship by forcing them to rely on the opinions of dozens of judges from around the nation.

That said, I think that the teams are corrupt in how they go about obtaining this award. Think back at many regional Chairmans winners, national finalists and national winners...and even to teams that stuck out in your mind along the years but never made the cut. How many of the extraneous-to-the-robot programs that they created and used in the award submission are still going today? I've been really impressed with how these winning and finalist teams have put their teams together and created innovative ways of making the competition, as well as the culture of FIRST, better...and to see these extraneous programs die after the season (regardless as to whether the team won or not) really disappoints me. Why? Just because the season is over doesn't mean the program isnt useful anymore. A need was found, a team filled that need (which is great), but to see that need reopen because the season is over is frustrating, because I feel like nothing has been gained. I don't want to name teams because I don't want to point fingers.

I also feel that impact can't be quantified in all cases. If FIRST's existence caused a 50% increase in graduates going to college, thats great, that's a valid point that absolutley should be used. But to say that the impact is greater because a FRC team has a lot of FLL teams...that seems sketchy to me. Just because the FLL team exists doesn't mean that it's always 100% effective in inspiring students, and doesn't mean that the team wasn't already going to pick up those same students once they hit high school. And it also doesn't mean by adding a bunch of FLL teams that the team is assimilating FIRST's vision to their community in the fashion that will yield an optimum effect. The team should analyse their community and create something innovative that will be the best for them - not just something that FIRST is suggesting.

Note: And I'm not just picking on FLL...there are other programs that I feel are viewed as quantitatively scored that should rather be scored qualitatively.

In short, I feel like a lot of FIRST's culture and community wouldn't be here without the Chairman's award...and I am grateful for that. But, when I see great culture-adding programs being created for the sake of winning an award - which is pretty apparent when it dies after the season is over - it upsets me, because I can't tell if they were genuinely doing it to make FIRST better, or to make their team look better. I think that we are a strong and smart enough community that we can move beyond doing things for our own team and indirectly for FIRST and we can move to doing things for FIRST. I hope that one day these culture-adding programs won't be seen as extraneous...they'll be seen as essential as the robot itself.

Now, I know I've heard a lot of complaints about how when someone posts something contravercial that they feel afterwards because of the backlash that they shouldn't have posted at all. So, I ask that you wait 30 minutes before you answer to anything directly related to what I say in this post - like how professors demand you wait 24 hours after an exam is handed back before questions can be asked. I think this will force posters to think logically and not defensively, so please abide by this, for both our sakes, and I eagerly await your responses.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I am not defensive, i promise you. Just curious to hear another point of you. You have valid points, I agree, some teams strive for Chairmans Award, then once they get it, they think that its over. I dont think that that makes the award corrupt, some teams need to rethink their priorities.

Of course there are always going to be some teams strving for their own gain. Its human nature, there is nothing we can do about that. And you know what? This is just another way FIRST emulates life. Short on time, money, and their are ppl in the world that do things for their personal gain, we just have to ask ourselves how we are going to respond to those people.

I apreciate the alternative point of you, makes ya think, how many teams truly do this for FIRST, science and technology, or just to get their own attention?

Not all teams fully understand the point of FIRST and its sad, they arent on Chief Delphi experiencing the full FIRST community. Maybe never hearing of this concept that is well known here on CD, Gracious Profesionalism. They get competitive.

For the teams that do only do it for their personal gain and then fade, its disappointing yes, but hopefully they have inspired someone a long the way. Whether during one of their exhibitions they inspire a child, or just a member on the team. Every person counts, even if the team does fade, they affected someone somehow, and it gives other teams a chance to step in.

Lets call it the Robotics Circle of Life. When one team "dies" another is "born". Continuing to inspire the nation, and soon to be the world.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Jessica,

I thought that Chairman's was the long-haul award, the award for the teams that do exactly what you say isn't happening--keep sustained programs alive and provide aid to the FIRST community throughout their history. You can't win the Chairman's just because of one year--you have to build to it and really show that you're keeping on.

I'll use my team as an example because I don't really know that much about other team's efforts (sorry). We spent the money that would have gone to another regional on a machine trailer for the regionals to have machine shop support, and have helped a lot of teams stay operation at competitions. We brought it last year, this year, and will continue to take it to regionals to help out.

Mentoring teams can be ephermal, you are right, though. I agree that teams should spend a real amount of time mentoring a team, not just mentoring as many as possible and adding them to the list. Last year we mentored Milpitas (1120), and two weeks ago we played them in the finals in Sacramento. That's pretty worthwhile.

You could very well be right; I haven't been around FIRST for nearly as long as you. The judges at a regional have to pick someone, and it may be true that sometimes they just pick the team with the longest list of "accomplisments." Hopefully, though, the teams that really do add to the community will be picked at their regionals, and the national judges will find the real sustainable programs for the national award.

Even still, I'd prefer a Championship. :cool:

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

OK time for me to step in and throw my 2 cents into the circle...


I really like the chairmans award and what it stands for. My beef really isn't about the award itself, but how certain teams/individuals try to achieve this honor. There are still quite a few teams/individuals that mean good, but do the award for the wrong reasons. Too many times I have heard "What can we do this year to help us win the chairmans award" Almost everyone in FIRST is guilty of that, including myself. Dean's ultimate goal for FIRST is exactly what the chairmans award stands for, but I don't think he intended for the chairmans award to become a bribe. In many cases thats what its turning into. Nobody can deny that. So the long and the short of it, the chairmans award is a great idea, but it is often abused and there are many people out there that still do it for the wrong reason. Ask yourself, if the chairmans award is taken out of the picture, would you still do your charity work, demos, inter-team building that occurs now? For many of us, yes, but overall the number of teams that participate would drop because that extra incentive to do these good deeds and better society is gone.

Just as Jessica requested, before you people go blasting my views take some time to think what I said. Overall after thinking about it, I hope my words can give you a better reason to better society and help spread the message of FIRST without the chairmans award in the back of your mind.

Don't do it because you have to or someone else wants you to do it, do it because you realize you can make a difference.

On that note, I go

D.J.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

To play devil's advocate the same could be said about the championship. The big contraversies that happen here on Cheifdelphi are because teams do blatant things to gain an advatage on the field. From whether the robots are student built or engineer built to rumors of teams trying to get around FIRST's rules by doing such things as weighing robots with a hollow battery or using practice robots at competitions and then taking the parts off and putting them on the 1st robot.

I think the main culprit is the need to get awards in general. At Buckeye last weekend we cheered out butts off all day long and we're dissapointed, even hurt when 808 won the Spirit award but not winning the award did not effect our overall attitide. The team continued to scream, yell, dance and have fun for sake of fun. The prospect of an award did not dictate our attitude. What speaks more about you as a person is not how you win but how you lose. It's real easy to be graciously professional and viewed as great when you are sweeping up awards left and right and place on a pedastal everywhere you go. But what about the teams that don't quite get over the hump?

We have never won a competition in 13 years of existence and I'm not going to lie and say that we don't want to but I honestly take more pride in winning awards like team spirit, sportmanship, judges award and chairman's because that's judging the entire team at the competition. The on field stuff is often dependent in how good your strategyn or driver is. That's just a handful of people on the team, most of the time. The rest of the team is just spectators.We honestly do care more about having our kids inspired and we are constantly battling with ourselves do we want a competive team or do we want kids inspired and we always choose the latter. Or infrastructure is to require our kids to do, at least, one year on the robot and they are encouraged to try all aspects of the team so they get the full FIRST experiecne.

I think too many teams veiw thier season a sucess or failure on how amny awards they have compiled that year and if they got none then it was a failure when that is not the case at all. FIRST is privlidge that I am glad to be a part of and any award we recieve is a blessing to be cherish not an expectation to be agonized over.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

wow.. interesting questions.. this is a topic i have considered myself with us running for chairman's this year... it is weird because this year we did a lot with the community and the team... it is only our third year and a lot of the original core group is graduating, so i think we wanted it to be special for them...everytime we did something, in the back of our minds the chairman's award team was thinking "will this help us get the award?", and every once in a while we suggested something to the team to help us be a more qualified team... it carried more weight coming from us...

The chairman's award shows a team straight off how important it is to embrace gracious professionalism and your community... when a team understands what the chairman's award is about, they understand the spirit of FIRST... this is something that beyond a doubt is a benifit of the chairmans...

You have to wonder if the award is becoming a bribe for a team to embrace that spirit, but i think it is pretty obvious when a team does something for no other reason that to get the chairman's award. if my team, with our 1 lego league team and lack of mentorship of other first teams, both of which are traditionally valued by the chairman's award judges, can win at our regional over teams who had many more of those things, I think you have to admit that the award works the way it is supposed to.

We put a lot of effort into winning the chairman's award, but we also put a lot of effort into being a good team... i think the seniors will go off with the memory of that and that the freshman will continue with the memory of that and carry it into the next few years...

Winning the regional chairman's rocked on every level... it let our entire team see how important our other activites are and made some of the more engineering driven members recognize the value of the chairmans and marketing teams. To watch our team come together with this award and our pursuit of it, was so important and amazing that i can't help but think it is an incredibly powerful award.

Were our team to win a Regional Championship that would be great too, but that would almost be just another subteam winning something... like the software group getting Leadership in Control, or the Marketing team getting the imagery award... The chairmans involved our entire team, in all the activities and presentations we did this year and in the history of the team.. it involved both past and present members and mentors... and we all are better for having been involved with it.

It is FIRST's most prestigeous award, and for me there is no question that it deserves to be...

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I think the chairman's is a more worthwhile award.. Is is more exciting? Probably not.

Winning the chairman's award means your team has made it in FIRST. The award means very little but the journey you took to it means everything.

Championships are more exciting because it happens so fast. Teams can become champions after having a hard Friday. Or you can make a run at it with little experience. My team was ranked 1 in Archimedes until our last match and you know the teams that came out of there. Given a little luck and minus a tip and we could have been competing for the championship.

But we are even on the same level as some of the chairman's winners. Maybe a couple more years and we will be.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I think the Chairman's Award is the top. Every competition we have ever won or lost was, in the end, a result of luck. Alot of hard work, a good robot, lots of practice, but in the end , either good or bad luck. The Chairman's Award, on the other hand, is a great recognition of the quality of the program. I have always told everyone that the Chairman's Award is not something to try to win - you build the best program you can and then let it be judged. Never do something just for the sake of an award.

I have always been more impressed with any award than with winning a competition. I have some medals from over the years but the awards are sweeter.

I am most proud of the enduring program we have. Five National Chairman's Award Finalist (in the old days), One National Chairman's Award, and one Regional Chairman's award, since '96.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Competitions are the result of whether you got lucky or not. In 2002, my High School team was lucky to go on to win in our division, muchless placing as Finalists. 311 picked us, the reason.... we beat them at KSC that year and had a good bot that they wanted then. But liek to pick, some teams jsut get lucky on who they are allied with.

Chairman's Award shows in most cases that here is a team who is an example of FIRST values and ideas, a memebr of the community, etc.... yeah medals and the other awards are nice but really the only teams that have any sort of "bragging rights" from year to year are Chairman's Award winners. If you win a competition, its only good until next season. And who wouldn't like to go to championship every year with out worrying to qualify?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I have to say Chairman's, I know I am one sided because it is the one of the few National awards I didn't win. But in my eyes it is still one of the most prestigious awards you can win.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I would perfer the National Chairman's Award because if u win the Chairmans you can go to Nationals every year for ever and it is the highest award a FIRST team can recieve.

and plus my team has already one the National Championship

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Exactly, my opinion too.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Also, to sum up my thoughts, from what i am reading, you guys are treating Chairman's too much like an award you can win. It is not so much as an award as an honor. Chairman's Award points out that your team is the team to be. You team is FIRST, it embodies all the spirit, the ideas, everything that is FIRST. Team 27 recieved chairman's at Great lakes Regional, and I would VERY MUCH rather recieve it at nationals than win the tournament. Not only would be invited back every year, but we would be the team that all the rookies (and veterans) should strive to emulate. And if we do win, we will still maintain all of our values, because what type of role-model would we be if we stopped being one?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Well, Miss Daisy won Galileo Division last year at Nationals, so this year we are definitely shooting for National Chairman's. We won the same regional two years in a row...as far as I can tell, no team has won as the SAME regional two years in a row. They switch regionals and then win it. Atlanta here we come!!!

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Dosen't competing for the chairmans award totally defeat the purpose of it??

Definetly championship for me....the only chance our team would ever have.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

No
Why Go for the Chairman's Award?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

If you guys really want to see what teh Chairman's Award is about come on over to the FIRST Hall of Fame display (I have no idea yet where they are setting it up) and talk to eight different previous Nation winners and they will give you the low down on why it's so important (and it's not just because you earn a ride to the championship every year neither).

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Well, Miss Daisy won Galileo Division last year at Nationals, so this year we are definitely shooting for National Chairman's. We won the same regional two years in a row...as far as I can tell, no team has won as the SAME regional two years in a row. They switch regionals and then win it.

Since this is just the second year for Regional Chairman's, this is probably not a good statistic.

Doesn't competing for the chairmans award totally defeat the purpose of it??

Absolutely not. The competition is different - everybody really "wins" by all of the great things teams think of to do for other teams and the community. The potential of a chairman's award is an enticement to continue to be creative and find new ways. It provides a venue for teams to highlight what they are doing so others can copy and improve on them. The potential of the award might motivate some teams to start specific activities, but I would bet they continue with them because they get immersed in it and the good they are doing. Ask previous winners if they stopped after winning - I would guess "no".

My vote: Why not "both". They recognize different aspects of a team and they are not mutually exclusive. But if I really had to pick one, I would say "Chairman's".

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

First of all, I really don't think the Chairman's Award is something you can "compete" for or expect to win every year. We honestly just go about our daily work because it is fun and rewarding.

We get excited about mentoring teams, running our off-season events and working with elementary students.

It may seem hard to believe, but we really don't have any elaborate plan for winning. We just dream up fun stuff to do and then try to document it during building season. You would have to be insane to put in this many hours for a banner and a trophy. We do it because we love it!! Plain and Simple!

Good Luck to everyone in Atlanta and during the upcoming off-season!

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Chairman's is everything about FIRST that made me volunteer in the first place. The big picture. It's all the stuff that makes sense to me. I'll never be an engineer. I'm forever learning and have a very patient group of teens who will explain differentials and spur gears. But somewhere along the line, I've become a mentor for an a bunch of future engineers. And how cool is that?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Winning in 2001 was exciting, but it's not something that is on my mind when I try to describe my achievements. Actually, except for the excitement at the event and the short lived aftermath, it hasn't been that great. I guess while I do take pride in it, I associate a low level of pride. However, when I think of something I'm very proud of and is a major achievement, starting 1020 pops into my mind instantaneously every time.

Why I feel that way, I won't say. However, I would estimate that if everyone were to experience winning the championship and then winning the chairman's, the poll would be tipped over to the chairman's side. Putting your heart into the robot and doing well is rewarding and we should never diminish that - it's why FIRST has been so successful. However, I would expect most people to find it much more rewarding, especially over a long period of time, to have made a real difference in their community, the FIRST community, and the world as a whole.

My vote is for chairman's and my 2 cents above are worth a gumball if you choose to redeem them:).

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

The effect of Chairman's is not just to create an attitude and aura that is gracious and professional. Chairman's represents a number of achievements that have been successful in inspiring FIRST values. If done honestly and correctly, even those teams that "compete" for Chairman's are doing the world a favor, and improving the place where they live. This is the same as saying that if you win the competition fairly, without trying to break the rules, but do so for the sake of victory rather than for the challenge or enjoyment, you still learn something.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

i completely respect all chairman's award winners, but the championship is where it's at. i have pretty much thought of nothing more than winning the championship since i started seeing the signs last year after nats. that's the way it folks. :cool:

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Actually, This is the third year for Regional Chairmans. Philadelphia Regional Chairman's Winners are : Miss Daisy in 2004 & 2003, and Miracle Workerz in 2002. I was quite suprised when Daisy won it again, because I didn't think that a team could win the same regional 2 years in a row. Good Luck at Nats Daisy!

Another odd thing about the Regional Chairman's award is that teams that have already won the National Chairman's can still win Regional Chairman's and thus can potentially win the National Award again (I think this has happened every year). I don't think National Winners should be eligable to win any Chairman's award again since there are already one of the 11 teams in the Hall of Fame and there are hundreds of teams that have never won (X-Cats should stay the only double National Winners (92 & 94) since FIRST was much smaller back then).

I already won a National Championship, and I wouldn't trade that 2001 season for any award. After winning a Regional Chairmans the next year, I would rather win National Chairman's Award than the National Championship. I am a mentor now and I would be more proud of a National Chairmans Award which acknowledges my many years of service to the team and the community rather than a National Championship which acknowledges one great robot I helped build.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Sometimes, it seems like there's just one thing that the staff and leadership of FIRST is unambiguous about -- the importance of the Chairman's Award.

It's amazing to see that half of the people in FIRST ignore the people they hold in such high regard.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

If FIRST told you to jump off a bridge... would you? ;)

I'm always torn in this debate, but even an old "robot nerd" like me has begun to see the light of the Chairman's award. Just remember, everyone is entitled to their opinions, and just because FIRST says something is "most important" doesn't mean everyone will rank it that way in their minds.

John

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I don't think its a matter of ignoring, nor a matter of not respecting anyone here or anyone within FIRST at all.

But we are allowed to have a differing opinion. If we weren't, then whats the point of the forum? Even though FIRST may have one opinion about it, doesn't mean that we have to totally agree with it, just as long as we respect everyone's opinion and the winners of both awards. Just because I at this time in my life prefer the Championship doesn't mean that I think Chairman's is a load of hooey - and it doesn't mean that I may never change my tune and think the other way.

I honestly don't think anyone who took a side in this at all hates the choice they didn't go with....they just have a preference, and I think that was shown beautifully in the earlier posts. And they're allowed to have that, as long as they respect the opposing opinion.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

If they managed to, at the same time, convince me that jumping off a bridge would bring about a necessary and overdue change in how our society perceives worthwhile contributions, I probably would do it. Metaphorically speaking, I feel as if I already have in a lot of ways.

I understand that people will not always do what they're told and that they have their own opinions about what is the most important aspect of the things they participate in -- but it just seems a bit disingenuous to praise the vision and accomplishments of people like Dean and Dave and Woodie in one breath and completely ignore their sage advice and wisdom in favor of opinion in the next.

It's alarming.

Edited to add: I'm not at all suggesting that people who want to win the Championship deserve less respect than people who would rather the Chairman's Award. It should be obvious by now that I like conflict. I just don't understand how the personal accomplishment implicit in winning a Championship satisfies FIRST's goals, and I'm still undecided about the worth of people participating who harbor a varying agenda. I have to be undecided because, much of the time, I feel as FIRST doesn't even know what it's trying to do anymore.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

It couldn't be better said. There are people who equally covet each; and to each their own. This debate, while bringing a lot of issues to the forefront, mainly reiterates what we already know: Different people value different things.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Amanda is exactly right. The FIRST goals are for these guys and girls to be inspired, each in their own way. Each person should get from FIRST whatever they want out of FIRST. A national chairman's award would certainly be sweet, but I don't think most people think of it in terms of preferring one to another. As mentioned before, it is something that just happens as a result of what you do as a team. I'm sure there are a few people on my team that would prefer an animation award over anything else! If they are inspired by that, then hey … awesome. It sure is interesting but I wouldn’t call it alarming.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

It's difficult to word this without making it seem as if winning the Championship and believing in the virtue of the Chairman's Award are mutually exclusive. I recognize that they're not.

But, in any individual, there has to be some focus upon which they expend the majority (or plurality, perhaps) of their energy. So, it seems that approximately half of the people in FIRST are worried more about winning than they are about inspiring others.

So -- if winning is more important than further inspiration of others in certain people, I'm really interested in learning more about the qualities they admire in people like Dean, Woodie, Dave and everyone else that's typically held in such high regard. I understand that it's entirely possible to admire someone while still disagreeing with them -- I disagree with John all the time :) But, with comments from Dean that have repeatedly reiterated that this is not a "robot contest" and the like, what about him do people find appealing that helps to justify their competitive drive?

I've, in the past, also been party to saying things like, "whatever inspires people is good," and I don't entirely disagree with that sentiment. I just think it's become something of a cop out among FIRST participants who haven't examined their motivations in useful ways -- so that people may continue to be inspired by them and their actions. If a strong desire for winning a Championship has been what you're inspired to pursue, that's fine, but how is that desire to win actively inspiring other people to, well, inspire other people?

The Championship indirectly inspires people to learn more, try harder and perform better. The Chairman's Award inspires people to actively promote learning, effort, and excellent performance -- not only be example, but by direct interaction and mentorship. One effort is one-dimensional, while the other is multi-faceted and comprehensive.

Again, I'm not trying to silence anyone's opinion or render it invalid -- only encourage more discussion and examination about the unconventional ways people have been inspired and find methods of integrating those methods into a more comprehensive ideology that can do as much good as possible.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Usually, I stray from the whole Chairmans/Championship debate, but I would like to throw my thoughts out there....

I am one of those people who values the Championship over the Chairmans. Though the ideals of what Chairmans is about are good, I have never really been one to believe that the purpose they uphold is truely what "inspires" students. I come from a team with a long history in FIRST. Over my ten years of involvement, I have grown up with a number of people with a certain passion for FIRST. I love the games, I love the excitement, and I love the friendships involved. These are all things which I can honestly say that I have gained from just plainly and simply being a competitor. For instance, I look to team 121. Back when I was a student, they grew into one of our biggest rivals. Over the years, the rivalry remained, but as a result of that rivalry, a friendship grew. I am proud to call the guys from 121 my friends, and I still love to compete on a high level with or against them. This competitive spirit is in my opinion, exactly what inspires people to engineering, as it is what inspired me. What I have found with Chairmans, with all due respect to the past chairmans winners, is that the award has been judged on a gimick basis. Though deserving of awards for all the hard work and effort that these teams put into the programs they build within their team to promote FIRST, I think that these teams only represent a portion of those who truely deserve recognition for their efforts. I think there are tons of teams out there who focus extremely hard on really exciting their own students, giving them a passion for the competition aspect. That passion is most definately contagious. I am proud to say that I am part of one of these teams who goes out of their way to get all students on its team involved, as well as make sure that the quality of their education is at a high level. Lots of things go on behind the doors of NYPRO on a given night during build time that never see the light of day on a chairmans award basis. For instance, the hard working engineers who actually spend lots of time sitting down with students to tutor them in math, science, or in some cases even english. I know for a fact that my team is not the only team who does this. I think things like that are just as important, if not more important than starting up 10 to 12 lego teams, starting an offseason competition, or initiating some sort of program to promote FIRST. Rule number 1: If your students are happy, if they are excited, if they are competitive, they will keep comming back...I've done so for 10 years...I'm not the only one. I choose the national championship over chairmans because I dont need an award to tell me that my team does an excelent job at promoting FIRST...I already know they do...from within. If we win a national championship, its a feeling of accomplishment that tells me that we worked as a team, we struggled as a team, we came together as a team, and in the end...we succeeded as a team.

I'll take that any day.

Good Luck,
Andy Grady

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

That is an awesome rule Andy. You know what’s so cool about this discussion? Everyone is exactly right! I don’t say that just to avoid stepping on toes. I am a firm believer in that as long as you have good intentions, try your hardest and stay within the mission and vision of FIRST, it makes little difference how you choose to give yourself. Everyone has their own definition of what giving back and making a difference really mean and of which ways are the best. The bottom line is, students can see when you are impassioned about something and they respond to that. I agree that it is important to inspire other people to inspire other people, but I also think that it happens somewhat automatically when people are exposed to the fervor of FIRST. If you happen to inspire people in ways that lead to more tangible things that can be judged for a Chairman’s award, so be it. Those things are important, too. I just say: to each their own and thanks for doing what you do, because you are doing great.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I would gladly take either. I think our team is perceived as a Chairman's competitor but we are trying to equally build a competitive robot. The thing about the Chairman's is it's kind of like the proverbial mountain that you climb because it's there. We have studied other teams and incorporated ideas that have worked and ideas that have not worked. We also have taken some of these ideas and advanced them or they have helped us down a road to new ideas. Without the Chairman's as a goal I doubt we would have been this aggressive to develop our team. To me the Chairman's is not what a team does but what a lot of good people from that team are able to accomplish. At this point our team is going to Atlanta with every intention of winning a national championship and if we don't the Chairman's wouldn't be bad either but if neither one of those happen we have had a great time trying and we will do it again next year.

Go Blue
"CyberBlue that is"

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I'd take either...but I'd prefer the Chairman's. I don't have a long and poetic reason for why I feel that way...I just like helping people. :)

Looking at the current poll results...does this make sense to anyone else? Shouldn't it be equal?

(Screenshot is attached so you'll know what I'm talking about if it changes)

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I would choose a National Championship over Chairman award I think that from winning nationals you get publicity and therefore helps with the Chairmans award. Now let me elaborate on this a bit more. Last year as I reacall team 111 Wildstang won nationals. Later that next week if I believe they were featured on the CBS Morning News(i think). From that I'm sure in their interview they mentioned where they were from. So here their city is getting nationally known and Wildstang is spreading the spirit of FIRST. I'm not against the chairmans award infact I love the award, but i think that you accomplish more for FIRST on a national level if you win the Championship. When is the last time a team the won the National Chairmans award was on National Television?

sorry if it sounds confusing i can elaborate more if needed.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

The thing with the winners from last year appearing on TV is more people get that they are there because they won a competition. But how many people will understand this team is on here because the won an award for be spreding the spirit and idea of an organization. Not to say that they both shouldn't be honored every chance they can be, but the average person won't care about the that was chose by a group of judges to spread an idea opposed to winning a competition.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I think that winning the National Chairman's would be amazing. The whole idea of the Chairman's Award is what FIRST is all about. It shows that the winning team has done more than just build a robot. It shows that they have inspired others to build robots or enter into engineering. The team that wins national Chairman's is spreading the word of FIRST and getting other people to get involved. However, building a successful robot is also very important. If your team can build a winning robot, great! But if your team can become a part of your community and can inspire others and do more than build a robot, kudos to you! I also think that having a good robot is part of the Chairman's Award. I haven't seen a team win a Chairman's Award that has a failure of a robot. Some of the teams that win the Regional Chairman's win the Regional too (or are close to it).

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I would have to say National Championship, for one simple reason, that as a driver that is what you strive for - above all else that is the ultimate goal.


...my 1/2 cent from my retired driver mind.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Frankly I'd take either...

This is talking from regional experience with both.

Last year we won regional champion which was awesome for us as rookies. We were so into the competition is was a lot of fun and our team was completely clicking. And I know national awards are like 100 times better easily (National Rookie All-Star) than any regional award.

This year we are still doing good. Creativity award and 11th in seeding but everything hasn't quite been clicking like last year. We've struggled a lot more, learned a lot more at times, and worked way harder than last year at time(if it was possible). But everything just really never got to come together quite as well as last year. It was the whole second year after a really good first year thing just hard to match up to expectations. But I couldn't be prouder of my team. Through all this trouble they have managed to put in the effort to make a difference. I know this seemed hard on the everyone at times. Winning the regional chairman was the reward they recieved for this effort. I know they were really inspired by this in that they did get some recognition for their hard work and the whole year started to look a lot better (don't take it as our year was horrible, just not as smooth as the previous).

Now being inspired both through winning and the spirit of FIRST I don't know which has made the biggest impact on me. I still am definitely driven by the competition but can tell I really enjoy the chances to pass on the knowledge to others.

So everything else the same: Chairman's trophy is better (and probably has higher resale value..j/k) so I stick with Chairman's.

BTW - I will take any trophy they hand out. They are all so shiny.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I agree with that completely, I would love to get either one. I know our team won't get chairman's award because we didn't get it at a regional, but even though we can't get that, winning the championship looks great when you get back home. The people at school don't understand what Chairman's award is anyways, all they understand is whether you won or not and to them, the championship is winning, anything less just isn't. We got 3rd in the world a few years back and our school barely noticed. They were still focused on winning the state football championship instead of our placing 3rd in THE WORLD . This year I hope we can bring home the 1st place medals and show our school that Robotics can be cool, maybe spark some interest and get some more community support.

Thats my 2cents :cool:

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Our team would probably rather win the cahapionship, mainly because we didn't submit an app for chairmans. We hope for possible

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

i have to agree 100% winning the national championship does more for first than national chairmans. Team 25 has been able to do more for first because of the national title. We love spreading the word of first. Please do not think i am trying to take anything away from the national chairmans (we go for it every year) but it does not spread the word of first better than national tv. For people who never heard of first before there is more instant gradification of hearing National Champaion than National Chairman and a hell of alot easier to explain. Another thing everyone one builds a robot to win. NO ONE builds a robot to lose. Even if they know that they can not win that year they learn to become a better next year. Why even go to nationals with a robot if all you want to do is go for national chairmans.

shaun

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I thought the pink would be spark enough...Maybe if you win FIRST will make special pink championship metals for you guys.

I will agree it makes it easier for team to find support. It doesn't make it more possible for that team to spread FIRST a lot though.. Sure you will get the interest of business men and techies...mostly. Let's name programs FIRST has been on: CNN, NASA TV, Tech TV, CBS 60 minutes, Discovery Channel, ESPN2. We are trying to reach out to high school students and not everyone gets these channels (for instance I would have only been able to learn about FIRST through CBS) and most of these channels wouldn't have a giant viewing audience of people who can start FIRST teams and who will follow up. So it leaves us with the best way to spread FIRST still lies with the teams. And so the Chairman's probably does a better job at spreading FIRST. Until FIRST hits a more mainstream audience more often it will continue this way. I think people realize it is easier for their team to come home after winning a world championship and getting money and support from their community but it doesn't make it any more possible or more likely that they will come back and spread FIRST and its ideals. IMHO.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

here is a great reason why winning the national title is better. Most Schoolboards want to see results. Football, chess and ect... When i go visit a school and if there focus is on winning they like to hear from winners on how they too can become that good (not saying we are that good but it is perception). Ha HAaaaaa low and behold we have another plan and that is get the true word of first out. By getting a schoolboard or anyone that writes checks to a first comp i would bet my paycheck that i will get them involved. Once people see what kids really get out of it then they become firstalolics. But we live in a world where all anyone cares about is winning. HELL why we first started because i though it owuld be fun and we could win and we saw it on espn. But soon after going to my first few comps did i see what the real deal was.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I'm going to have to say Championship over Chairmans because we already won the Chairmans Award. The Chairmans award is great and all, like you can get to go to small places like the Paris Air Show and do small favors for a lesser know Mr. Dean Kamen, but I would also like to win the Championship becuse it is just another goal to fulfill.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

O.K. ! I really should be packing to leave but I just have to respond.

I think both have equal importance.

You have a pointless program unless "design success" and "on-field success" is your ultimate goal. So in this case the Championship is the ultimate prize.

However, the soul of your program lies in Chairman's. Because this effort gives your program a larger purpose. A purpose bigger than your team.

Also in terms of community support and corporate donations your best bet is also to maintain a solid community-based program.

As the team's fundraising coordinator, I can tell you for sure that our supporters are NOT interested in our win-loss record. They want to know two basic things :
1) How is my donation helping the kids?
2) How is my donation impacting my community?

Everything else in terms of on-field success and awards is pure gravy.

That being said, our team does smile more when we are winning!! ;-)

Good luck in Atlanta! let the games begin!

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Couldn't have said it better. I was with Erin at IMAPS convention and those are the questions at least I was asked besides, what does this robot do. They wanted know what kind of impact we are making in the community and the students. The Dean of the College of Engineering (COE), Dean Soyster, here at Northeastern asks me the same things. Yes he'd love for us to win Championships, awards, etc.... as it gives PR to the NU and the COE but also he understands that this is a program for high school students and we are trying to impact them. (course he also wants to know if any are going to to go to NU when they graduate but that's not related to this discussion).

I think FIRST has Championship as a short time goal (it also involves luck too) and Chairman's as your long term goal. As your program ages, it should be an example to the other teams regardless of what you've won, where your team has gone, etc....

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

This debate really got me thinking....I really do hold the Chairmens and the Championship on an equal plateau. The reason is not because I am deeply involved in my own team's ventures into each. It stems more from the fact that the Chairmans is more business and inspiration driven while the Championship shows incredible inginuity and human excellence in design and control. And my take on FIRST is about the business of technology and inspiring young people into this business. Bpth winning the Championship and the Chairmens shows success in this program.

Just my take on things


-Pat

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

The Championship is just about the robot. The Chairman's award is about the whole team. I think we'd have come to Atlanta to try for the Chairman's award (we won at our regional) even if we had to leave the robot at home.

READ THIS! ***National Championship or National Chairman's ***
 

I am a 3 year mentor, with an engineering masters degree, from a veteran team just as Chief Delphi, Baxter Bomb Squad and many others. I see that everyone needs to show results from the completion since the schools and companies see only results. I agree that results need to be the focus, so that teams can convince administrators and companies that First is worth continuing and First is as good as sports programs. As a veteran team member I wish to campaign for a next level. I say this because after winning there is an unwritten rule that your team can not win again in things other than the robot completion. The kids are new every other year and that fact is over looked in most First rules. The mentors are not and this needs to be a focus of future chairman’s awards and such. Black listing teams will be the “Death of FIRST.” This is the problem for the future of FIRST. I warn that this needs to be address by all veteran teams. Not a destroy approach and force teams in giving up their name and number and starting again. What I see first saying like telling an NCAA team that you can only win one national award in your life time and no more. I am sure that every college will agree that having a team is not worth just that one win. The chairman’s award is a way of making sure the teams are replicating and growing first. So, by “word of mouth” First may fail if it is know that the teams have no more to win. I can not stand by and let this happen! Can you? I know that not all students will be engineers in the traditional disciplines, but doctors, lawyers and many other disciplines of engineering. Promote this!

I suggest and welcome comments to what I am about to suggest. Lets create another level for the veteran teams. It may be an added level of complying for the games and chairman’s awards and the like awards. Not the death by winning. The idea is this veteran teams will have status of input to many First decisions and voting rights, not to complicate the bureaucracy of meetings for first. This is for added input from that’s with experience from the inside. The game will have an added requirement, such as a particular task that only these teams will be allowed to do. This may require an additional tournament level, but based on the same game as the others. Example, the teams that qualify can get approved to perfect the autonomous mode. This will require a mile stone to be passed/approved by first. Then if this is reached, you will have an extra amount of time say two weeks to perfect the additional autonomous task. This will set us apart from the rookie teams.

In the chairman’s side of things, FIRST could require direct replication of the veterans teams knowledge by adopting a 2 or more year team and growing them to win an award and showing community growth of FIRST. First can become as popular as sports this way. The team may gain points some way to compete against one another in the accomplishments of growth. There is money donations for the cause for spreading the word about FIRST if it becomes as popular as sports. We all know it can.

Lets create the next level of FIRST together veteran teams. Please pass on my words if you agree to the people that want to make a difference. Dean Kamen always comes by to check on our team each time he is where we are in location. Mr. Kamen worked for Baxter at one time, a still gets lots of money from our company in royalties. So, I hope that he will listen to this call of the next level. And request input from the veteran teams. He is a master and we have met his requirements, thus it is only fair to make us masters as well, maybe?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Only as a fundraiser for my team.. I mean why not, I already shaved my head when we won a regional.*


:ahh: <-- *Note lack of hair on smiley & expression. That was me this past March.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

ABSOLUTELY......who wouldn't? I would go down chanting "Let's all go nuts, ROBOTS ROBOTS!!" like 461. They had me saying that even when they weren't...very very catchy!
:D
-Kyle

Re: READ THIS! ***National Championship or National Chairman's ***
 

With all due respect, it's not "blacklisting" at all. And it's not an "unwritten rule" anymore. In the 2004 manual and documents sent to all hall of fame teams it's all spelled out very clearly. The Hall of Fame is a special place and a chance for the kids to meet special people and be held up as role models for the entire program. The same submission is required to receive Hall of Fame status each year and these entries provide examples for others to follow. My experience with 103 showed that all of our team mentors worked harder AFTER winning the Chairman's Award even knowing we couldn't win it again, because we all knew the importance of upholding the honor and obligation that comes with the award. I'm not sure what teams this means death to at all - 22. 47, 103, 151, 175, 191, 254 and the others haven't gone anywhere - and that lifetime invite to the Championship is a pretty sweet deal considering the qualification process. This was discussed at length last year in the latter parts of this thread:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=26927

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Perhaps FIRST needs a "Lifetime Achievement" award - a WFA for teams if you will - for teams to aspire to after Chairmans. What I have in mind would not necessarily be awarded every year - just when a team has made measureable, substantial contributions to furthering FIRST's goals over a period of years. Would that be what's needed to challenge the students of the Chairman's teams to even higher achievement?

(Or has this been floated before?)

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Chairmans All the way! Our team won the Championship in 2003 and it was awesome but I think that the chairman's would be a better honor and shows how a team really works hard and displays the principals of FIRST. I think that the teams that win Chairman's could end up at the bottom of the seed list and would still be recognized as the best programs in FIRST.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Although I think it is much more prestigious to win the National Chairman's Award, it would be much more fun to see your team win the 12 or more matches to put you on top. That is why I voted for National Champion.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I've got to go with Chairman's. It's an easy choice considering the effect that each award would have on others. The Chairman's Award indicates that you've changed your whole community. The Championship would be great, but really only effects my team. There's no comparison.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

If we did not win the championship in 2000, it would not have been as easy to pursue our sponsors Bristol Myers squibb to sponsor 6 more teams in the region and fund the NJ Regional. So winning the championship made a huge difference in the whole community, and it was a team effort. The drive team learnt the game and the field, the scouts did their job scouting, the pit crew did their job repairing, and the volcano crew did their job cheering. The whole team was active. Yes, I know you can argue that chairmans is like "working behind the scenes" but winning the championship made a huge difference to our community which was otherwise kinda hard. Our team has been helping out in our region just because its a good experience. As D.J.Fluck said, all of us are guilty of wanting the chairmans as if its a bribe, I think he is kinda right because a part of our team does do it for that reason. My vote goes for Championship because I have seen it has a major impact in the community.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I think that the Chairman's award is a comination of having a good robot and spreading the ideals of FIRST in the community

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

So, with a poll with results pretty much split down the center, and 6 pages of discussion, is it safe to say that the best answer is....both?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Wel,l team 67 earned both, congrads!

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Hard choice...but I'm too competitive for my own good; I had to go for Champion. Even though winning National Chairman's Award would guarantee a spot at the Championship every year from now on.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I'd say Chairmans...It shows you're spreading the message of FIRST to the masses and are helping to make the world a better place. My competitive edge in me wants to say Championship, but if you win National Chairmans then you're forever remembered in the Hall of Fame, Champions aren't the same way, who knows who the champion was in 1999 off the top of your head? I know you can do a seach, but the point is that Chairmans gains instant recognition.

It'll be interesting to see what 67 has to say on the matter...seeing as how they set a new precedent, winning the Championship and National Chairmans in the same year.

Just my input to the debate.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

i would like to hear from a team 67 member and ask which one feels more rewarding and why...

:D

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I voted in this poll months ago, when it first came out. My vote was for the Chairman's Award, and my choice hasn't changed. This is my fifth year on the team -- 3 as a student, 2 as a mentor. We've had very competitive robots for years and that's great, but we've also had a heavy focus on the community outreach and spreading the word of FIRST. Without FIRST, none of us would be here, communicating with each other and sharing our knowledge and experiences. Many students wouldn't have gone on to college (be it for engineering or other things). Would we have the teams and the visibility in expanding science and technology if teams hadn't made the time and the effort to do what the Chairman's Award is all about?

FIRST is an incredible program that can give anyone involved a whole new perspective on life itself. The rest of my team is still on a bus en route from Atlanta (I couldn't go -- I'm on Kettering University's messed-up schedule and in school right now), but I'd love for them to post how they feel.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I think it would be more fun to have won chairmans. It is what this competition was originally designed for. There isn't as much stress when you win that because you automatically get to nationals.

But at the same time if you win the competition portion, it is fun because you have beat professional engineers and big name companies. It is pretty close but that bye to nationals put Chairmans on top.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

There is no way you can pick the championship. If you win chairmans you are inducted to the hall of fame. That just sounds cool.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I haven't read the other posts, but I'm very happy Chairman's is in the lead. When my team won the regional Chairman's Award in New York last year I started crying. It shows that you've really made a difference in the community, not just built a good robot.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Well said Mr. Grady...Well Said!!!!!!!

Justin

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

You asked for comments from someone from Team 67 as to winning the Championship and the Chairman's Award on the same day.

First I will say that to me the Chairman's Award is more satisfying. It puts our team into the FIRST Hall of Fame. What an honor to join the twelve teams already there. We have worked hard for nine years to be a great FIRST team. That is our "Recipe for Success".

Winning the Championship was great...Not too much time to savor that before the Chairman's was announced. But if it were not for a great move by 503 at the end of the second match on Einstein, who knows what would have happened. Any of the four alliances in the finals could have been Champions. Luck, or fate, or skill, just happened to go the way of our alliance. We had an alliance last year that was capable of winning the Championship, but we fell from the bar in the finals on Newton and broke eight joints...the wheels would no longer line up. That is why I think that the Chairman's Award is better. You can have a great robot and something wierd happen to your alliance and you are out. If you have a great team and win the Chairman's Award you are in the Hall of Fame forever.

By the way, what would you expect of someone that has spent the last eight years of his life chasing the Chairman's Award?

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Thats pretty cool for 67 for having the perfect championship. Since we have won the Chairmans already that we are going for Champianship now. but Chairmans is really cool because you always going to Championship and you're in the Hall of Fame. All of the Chairman stuff we do is really fun like helping teams and our sectional it is really cool.

So Chairmans is the way to go becuase it is the meaning of FIRST.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

i'd have to say chairmans, after a while team numbers/names that won championship start to be forgotten, but with chairmans your team is definatly remembered.

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Since I personally have not been involved with any Championship or Chariman's Award I love both...but I still love hanging out with my kids and having fun as the # 1 criteria or else I wouldn't be doing this. Awards in general are sugar on top and ingeneral I believe that's how our team feels since as Koko Ed pointed out we have never won a robotics competition until this very year (13 years -of dry luck) but Hey we kept on going like the little energizer bunny.

Ellery

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

I voted for National Chairman's award because that will allow us to compete for the championship each year. If FIRST didn't keep saying that it's all about the Chairman's award would anybody care about it?

If FIRST really believed it was all about the Chairman's award would the presentations be given behind closed doors or for all to see? The same goes for Animation. FIRST gives lip service to both of these pieces of the puzzle, but you never get to see the results.

When FIRST decides to showcase Chairman's and Animation like they showcase the robots, then I might think it's about something other than a robot competition.

just my .02

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

Well I was only on our team for one year and we have never submitted for a Chairman's award in four years. That doesn't mean we don't do anything that would constitute as work towards an award, but the team has simply never actually collected all the stuff together and submitted it. Anyways, I don't know what it feels like to be *hoping* to win a Chairman's award, be it at a regional or the championship. Of course I would like to, but I am just saying, I haven't.

That being said, I *do* know what it feels like to make it to the finals of a regional event or even just watch our six weeks of work take the spotlight at any point during a competition. So personally, I would love to know the feeling of going all the way and winning the National Championship (especially as an underdog!).

Re: National Championship or National Chairman's
 

my other team already won the chairmans award so would say national champion