Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Here comes most important aspect of the game v2.0. have fun voting.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Really, if you can hang consistenly and your human player makes 5 or 6 balls, most of the time you have it won. :)

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

The Multipliers
The Mobile Goal
Human Player Accuracy
Hanging
Handling Small Balls

auto is only for strategy this year.... not as important as last years auto....

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Hanging
Autonomus
Small Balls
Multipliers


If you're really good with the small balls...then the multiplier goes up in importance. In qualification rounds the multiplier made little difference...but in the finals it decided most of the matches

A hanger will win most of their qualification matches..but you need something more if you go in the finals. Just pure hanging and herding would be a close call if you're trying to win. (which I think everyone is)

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Small balls defense and hardcore strategy seemed to do really well for us in philly

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Auto
Plow
Cap
Hang
WIN!!!!

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Exactly.

Though you can often win without a hang if you corral long enough.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

I think I'm going to have to say hanging is the most important part. (And by hanging I mean being able to hang yourself as well as being able to stop your opponent from hanging.)

Basically, everything else is dependent. If you corral balls really well, you need a good human player in order for it to do you any good. You need both of those if the multiplier ball is going to be of any use to you. If you can knock the 10 point ball in auto, you do gain an advantage by releasing the balls early...but you still need to corral and score them.

Hanging= 50 points. Period.

Obviously it's not quite that simple, but those are my two cents.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

i think its pretty easy to do it all this year. I think hanging well is definately a plus, but only if u hang at the end. I kinda dont like the bots that just sit there and hang though whole match, whats the point?

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

at the beginning of the design...i thought hanging would be most important...now...i'd argue that small balls can make or break a game. it only takes 5 balls doubled to equal one robot hanging. i see teams getting 14 balls in the stationary goal (70) doubled is 140 points...more than two opponent robots hanging and you are still pretty set on ranking points (or is it qualifying points...i don't know)

watching teams like 45, 111, 71, and 469 (sorry if i forgot anybody) at Chicago last week simply wowed me with their ball handling capability. good job guys! you changed one sceptic's mind

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Not it your ally has a good HP. Or if you drive a mobile goal you can just dump them over the wall(im not saying thats exactly easy, but most HPs can at least 50% of those shots). Sure hanging helps, but the small balls win the game. Look at the first match where all 4 robots got on the bar, one alliance had 5 balls, the other had 4. The small balls won it. Look at many of the winning teams. In richmond the #1 seed was 165, a herding team, but 33, another herding team won the regional. In Annapolis 3 of the 4 semi-finalists had a herding based team on them. herding and small balls are the key.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Small balls will be the key to winning the championship event. You cant deny that.

Now that teams are getting better at collecting/corraling (and some wickedly talented human players out there) 2 robots hanging on a side really isnt necessary to win anymore. I say 1 hanger with a bot that collects and caps is the ideal team on the field.

Autonomus mode is nice, but it doesnt mean much this year. Our alliance scored 190 points (with only 1 robot hanging) and nobody triggered the 10 pt balls...

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

I'll stick with:

Luck
Marketing/Scouting

To win the championship this year it will take a lot of luck since there are so many ways to lose it.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Sadly, that is true... :)

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Human Player
Small Balls
Multiplier
Hanging

Lets say the Blue Alliance has 2 hangers, one of which can grab the mobile goal and manipulate the multiplier balls. They parks their mobile goal under the ball dump (4 balls). Then one human player puts his/her 3 balls into it and they cap it (7 balls x 10pts = 70 pts). The other human player makes all 3 of his/her balls into the stationary goal (now we're up to 85 points). Then both robots go hang (total points = 185).
Lets say the Red Alliance has a small ball bot with a reliable human player (us) and a capper. They spend the entire match gathering balls and end up with 18 in their moblie goal (we did it in Philly). Then they cap the goal (total points = 180). Unless the Blue Alliance performs flawlessly, the match will either end in a tie, or a win for red. Keep in mind that, while the ball bot is gathering balls, the capper could be playing defense. In short,
Small Balls Dominate

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

This is the way to win small balls do dominate. It is a proven fact. And one good ball bot with one good hanger will rock it already has: UTC with 571 handeling balls and caping with 230 and 716 hanging Next at the midwest regional were 45 did balls and caped really well and there parteners hanging and last that i have see would be NJ were 237 hung and had 303 and one other team do thre balls and cap

I dont belive there has been an aliance who could just hang that went far in this years game. balls are KEY!!!!!

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

ummm, in your example, the blue alliance(with the hanging robots), won. Note that in your example both alliances were performing flawlessly...

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

What I like most about this years game is that there are still many ways to play the game no one strategy is right or wrong. Any team can still develop something that works for them but the most important aspect to the game itself is winning.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Yup. Auto is nowhere near as important as when the bins got knocked into your side of the field and you had to spend the rest of the match either cleaning them out or moving them over. If you don't really bother with the 5 point balls it doesn't matter if they fall in the first 15 seconds of 45 seconds in.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

well if you are going to ask this, you might as well answer all of them are the most important. I've seen hangers beat small ball gatherers, cappers beat hangers, gatherers beat hangers, pretty much anything. It all depends on how the individual robot is, and how succesful it is in playing its strategy.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

In order to win this year, your alliance will have to have the best of the best of all aspects of the game. You can't win by doing one thing, unless you're against stealth bots. Its been pretty much proven that you can counter most strategys......some robots can keep others of the bar, but if you get enough balls in and double it, you can beat them (i never said it was easy)
This year's game is a good one, encorporating most/all of the aspects of the game if you really want to win, thus robots that do all (well) or alliances that can do it all (well) are the winners. There is no most important aspect of this game, everything matters, one thing can change a whole match. Whether it be a robot caping a goal or a robot hanging, there are many last second swing aspects of this game. FIRST wanted a spectator friendly game, they got a one (assuming the spectators know how to score):D

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Sorry to say that there is no most important part of this years game. The most important part of this game is knowing what it takes to beat the team you playing.

If team A can beat team B and team B can beat team C, does that mean that team A can beat team C? Not this year!

Small balls will not be the key because it is easy enough to stop teams from getting them. Hanging won't be key because it's too easy to overcome with small balls. Capping won't be most important because you need little balls to cap.

It's all going to come down to the what was said by John in the defense thread: Picking a strategy to beat the team you are playing. There is no "one" strategy that can win this year, they can all be beat. Be smart!

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

If you can't hang you can't win... That's my theory but still... Thats 50 points... Our team can hang so good now... Just wait and see... In one regional we couldnt hang... We didn't get picked.... In the next regional we could, we got picked and made it to the semi finals but our alliance tipped in both matches and we lost... Not by much but enough... Hanging is key...

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Actually seeing this years competition really made me relize what "the most important" part of this years game was. and i think the answer to this would have to be, that there truly isn't one, though i feel hanging is arguably VERY inmportant. At the reginal, there was only one instance where a robot hung and thier aliance didn't win, but that only because the opposing aliance had bot thier robots hanging. :ahh:
When we got to quarter finals it was almost imposable for us to predict how the match would go. In one instance we had an aliance partner that could open a net and catch almost all the 5point balls during auto. mode while our robot could go and knock off the 10pt ball during auto. We shot almost every ball in the goals and then our robot hung. Surprisingly, both times we did this stratigy, we didn't win :( . But it sure mad for an amazing round to watch. :yikes: We still ended up in 4th place and had a great year.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

I was being generous with the blue alliance's points. I have seen a mobile goal under the ball dump catch anywhere from 1 to 6 balls. I have seen human players miss shots on a mobile goal when it was right next to the players' station. I tried to make the blue alliance's performance a best case scenario, while I based the red alliance's performance on what I have seen our bot do, and the fact that there are teams that can cap reliably.
I guess my point was that small ball bots get high scores more reliably than hangers.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

I definitely think that the most important aspects of the game are:

Scouting
Hanging

If you don't scout right, how will your team do well? By knowing exactly what every other robot can do, its strategy, driving techniques, human player accuracy, things like that, you will do well. Also scouting is key to knowing exactly what strategy to use in a match. Scouting definitely has a positive effect on the results of the matches.

Hanging is also an incredibly important part of the game. I do agree that sometimes the small balls can determine a match, but if your robot can hang really well, then your robot will do great. Unless, you are against a fantastic ball collector. That's where scouting comes back into play.

Scouting is key! ;)

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

as a scout I can tell you that our role isn't as pivotal as one may think. the teams we pick are generally the teams we were paired with at one point or another. after watching many matches, I have come to the conclusion that too few people respect the power of the balls. Though they are only 5 points each, cap them, and they are 10 each. thats only 5 capped balls to tie a hang, and that is not as hard as one would imagine given the abilities of the robots this year.

keep in mind that a well-rounded alliance is the best alliance to keep. Defense is important to have for the win, but it is useless without an offensively strong robot... the basic premise of my scouting white paper that I have provided.

good luck all!

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

[quote=Pin Man]If you can't hang you can't win... That's my theory but still... Thats 50 points... QUOTE]

I would edit that quote to say "If your strategy is to hang, and you can't, then you won't win" You are right in saying that the 50 hanging points are important, however keeping an opponent from hanging and not hanging yourself has the same effect as going to hang yourself, but also letting your opponent hang... just ask all of the people who saw the finals in Philly. I agree with the people who say that scouting is one of the keys, because if you know that you are going up against 2 robots that can hang, and only one of your robots can hang, you can let a hanging robot from the other alliance be cancelled out by the hanging bot on your alliance, then after you have done whatever else you planned on doing in the match (small balls for us) you can just prevent the second team from hanging, because instead of hanging at the beginning of the match they were forced to defend against you.

There is a thread about teams with the most alliance points (points that their alliance actually scored, not opponents) averages, at least 5 of the top ten were from philly... we were not one of them, yet we still won... so how important can hanging really be?

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Not if you catch them ;)

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

Well it is legal to keep some from catching or to keep their nets closed.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

I can't think of any rule that it would be violating. At Philly, our opponents did everything that they could to keep us from catching the ball dump. But we were only denied the catch a few times. The only rule that I can think of that might come into play is the one saying that you can't pin a robot for more than 10 seconds.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

To get back on subject, I would have to agree with a few other people on here by saying that any strategy can win.

Even a team like us who catches the balls, we still modify out strategy each match to both fit our alliance partner and our opponets.

Something I haven't seen as much as i would like to, is good defence. Keeping a bot from hanging, corraling, or capping (or decapping) can be the best way to win (also decapping our opponets goal).

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

I think its pretty simple...

Hanging gets you a high seed...

Ball manipulation wins championships.

If you can do both well...look out world!

I also agree that its extremely important for teams to do more than one thing. Just hanging is not going to cut it against the Technokats, Cheesy Poofs, Baxters, and Paragons of the world. Paragon at UTC is a great example. They were so efficient at scoring the small and large ball, that they would just storm out of the gate, fill the goal, and cap it with time to spare. Double hanging alliances couldn't really do anything because the most they usually would score was 130. Paragon, on the other hand, had about 130 points waiting in the goal alone by the time the match was over. Add a hanger in there...game over.

My prediction, the most dangerous robots will be the do-everything bots.

Good Luck,
Andy Grady

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

And if you cant cap then keep them from capping then hang that is a win. Also your HP's have to be ok.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

if you watch match 62 from midwest, purdue was an awesome, awesome small ball/2x robot, but things happen, and at the end of the game, they didnt' corral almost at all. luck is very imprtant this year.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

This is what wins Good defence. A robot that stops someone from hanging is big. and if you stop a ball robot from getting ball is also big.

Re: Most Important Aspect of Game?
 

One observation I made: If one alliance is hanging more robots than the other, it will probably win. By this logic, hanging is most important.
Not so! if both sides are hanging equal numbers of bots, it will come down to the balls and who doubled what.
So if you can hang, but probably won't make it, shove as many balls around as you can. cap and decap goals. grab bonuses if you can. whatever scores points