Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

Well, as good as a combination robot may seem, think of it this way. You can either have a combination robot, which is like a Jack of all trades master of nothing (not saying all combo robots aren't great), or have a robot designated to 1 or 2 main tasks, and it could focus all of its efforts on those tasks. I would say a good alliance would be composed of the following: 2 teams that can hang and cap very efficiently, and 1 team that is an efficient ball herder. Even if 2 big ball teams are playin a match, most robots can still push a couple balls into the corrals...and with the 100 points from the 2 hangin robots, theres a better chance of winning the match. Same deal with when a big ball team is playing with a ball herder...human players shoot in all the balls they can, and the big ball hangin team goes up to hang.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

I think that the winning ALLIANCE will have an elite hanger, elite herder, and a robot that rocks at doing everything.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

From watching the regionals, the winning alliance will be the one that can have two hanging robots at the end of every match. I don't care what kind they are, if they can cap, herd, collect, etc. If they can get that 100 points (and perhaps block the opponent from hanging) they have a great chance.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

Of the teams at Championships, that sounds like 48 (har har har, Delphi "Elite"), 33, and 254. If only those teams were in one division. Though it'd be more interesting watching 4 awesome teams go against each other rather than partnered up.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

I predict that hanging won't be nearly as valuable as it was at regionals. Now that teams are getting large small ball scores, the 2x balls are much more valuable. Let's put it this way.

Alliance A has 1 robot hanging and a capped goal with 11 balls in it.
Alliance B has 1 robot hanging, a goal with 17 balls in it (think 45 or 33), and a robot with a 2x ball picked up.
There are 20 seconds left.

If you are the alliance A robot that is not hanging, do you:
a) Go to hang, or
b) Defend the cap

Obviously you defend the cap. It also would have been smarter for the other robot on alliance B to decap allaince A rather than hanging.

I may be completely wrong, but a lot can happen on the field when even the fastest hanging robots stop playing defense and go to hang.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

cap

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

I agree with whoever said, great hanger, great collecter, great at everything alliance combo. However someone has to play D-fence. Running screens, anoying oppenents, that kind of thing.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

Combination robots seem to get swamped in my experience. It's great for a robot to do everything, but when you have an alliance with two highly specialized robots, one hanger/bar defender and one ball gatherer/capper, they're invincible. Each dominated their respective specialties because they're not trying to do anything else. Also, looking at average points scored (about 110 or so on the high end, 50 on the low) two great hangers could possibily win it as could two really good ball gatherers/cappers.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

Well, as someone in their 3rd year of FIRST, I can say that it's a wild guess. The varables are high in any game, let alone this one. If I had to choose, I would say combination herder, small goal capper, and hanger.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

Whatever robot wins you can guarantee that the final matches will be awesome. And will most likely have 4 robots hanging, and stationary goals filled possible one being capped.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

Now, I could be wrong, but coming from a driver's perspective:

Combination robots are not really effective during matches unless they can do at least one task very well. You simply don't have time in the match to Herd a bunch of balls, then go cap it, then herd some more, then cap the other goal, then go and hang, and put some Defense in there while your at it.

Our team is breaking down the game into two periods. First minute of game play is either defense or Capping (It is also predetermined which before the match starts) and then the last minute - 45 seconds is hang. If you try and do everything, you'll end up doing all the tasks halfway. Halfway on a hang is zero points and halfway on a cap is zero points.

At UCF we tried to do everything a few matches, defense, capping, herding, hanging. We sucked it and the strategy's been revised. Stick to what you know, and do it every time.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

unfortunately, i can only comment on what i know, and i have not seen any other regionals than BAE, but i can tell you what i saw there:

winning alliance
501- good hanger, cap/uncap, minimal ball herding, auton=push goal
69- awesome hanger, cap/uncap, auton=?
aces- (sorry, i forgot :confused:..anyone from aces feel free to fill this in)

runner-up alliance
138- good hanger, cap/uncap (unused ironically), decent ball herding, auton=5sec knockoff of bonus ball (2 stage, gyro for angle of attack, then IR to find ball)
40- awesome hanger, decent ball herding, uncap, auton=?
175- no hang, ball collector, cap/uncap 2x, auton= line follower: 13sec

most of the quarter/semi/finalists had many hangers on the alliances, and fewer ball collectors. those who are saying that hanging is important are right, however it is important only when coupled with another robot that equalizes the balance. in the finals I believe ALL possible strategies are going to be critical as odd as that sounds, and the teams that omit one are going to sink VERY fast.

also, I was disappointed at the lack of autonomous mode functionality this year. though the balls end up on the floor anyways, I believe it is important to control your environment quickly. if you can nail the auton, you have 30 seconds more than you normally would in order to collect and score balls, and that is a substantial advantage if paired against a team that has to wait for the 45 second limit to pass.

/suddenly realizes length of post, runs :ahh:

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

i think a combination robot is benificial to have, but what it comes down to is durability, strangth, and quality. last year our robot was only really good at knocking down the wall, not stacking. however, our strong base and drive train led us all the way to the championship semis. all we can do good this year is go up on the bar, but our good base and drive train still help us a lot. our robot isn't the best or most versitile one out there, but its still very good because of the high quality base.

basically i am saying that the best design should not be judged by what the robot does, but by how good and reliably it does what it does.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

Amen to that. In the previous years, my team has tried to do most everything, and at best managed to to them mediocerly (???, don't even know if thats a word), anyway this year we tried the approach of just building a strong drive train that can play defense, and a bot that can hang well. So far it has worked to our advantage, and I think that we will focus on this strategy for years to come.

Re: what kind of robot will win?
 

Thanks for the compliment, but don't forget about Team 60 =). I think that herding isn't as important if you can't cap, though, which is where 33 takes a few knocks. Team 45 is the one that really frightens me...they got 170 points on balls in one match at Midwest! That's...just...scary. Proof positive that a team comprised solely of hangers is not going to carry the competition.