Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

Actually it is all ready.:) There was a working presentation plant in Philidelphia and now there is a plant in a Butterball Turkey plant.Actually I know that. Im just saying that the caliper of education that people receive does not lead to success.

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

I have been waiting for Dean Kamen to say something about the economy and I was dissapointed in the substance of his message.

I think that science and technology are extremely important and we as a country need to do something to retain a base of technical expertise that is busy doing something other than creating the latest WMD.

I like to think of Dean as kind of a rebel, counterculture kind of guy but he seems to be a very much a corporate Republican.

Anyone who doesn't think being outsourced is no problem hasn't been outsourced.

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

It may just be me...having come from a different country and lived here for a while now. But I think the main problem and debate here is that American's feel that they are all mighty and important. They seem to forget that they are just one country in a vast world. Yes, even though the U.S. is a world power and I am very glad to live here, without the other countries...where would we be? It is very hard to loose a job, but what about a home? a life? or a family? others have it much harder than your lack of not having the latest widescreen or 3.9 Ghrz machine. Just take a moment to look at the bigger picture and think about others...and enjoy life (oh and btw its just a speech)

~Roman (just my opinion)

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

While Dean is a bit full of himself and his beliefs, the truth is that global markets have cost us 2 million jobs to outsourcing in the last 10 years and have created mulitiple times that many american jobs. You cannot choose not to compete or you have already lost. But, while they are creating millions of engineers most of them are working for american companies that export their ideas back to the US for americas use.

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

Wow, it looks like Dean Kamen knows the score. Good for him, he is annoying and arrogant, but I have to say, if he said the things that you say he said, then I should buy him a drink!

Dean's right for endorsing economic nationalism. America MUST win the technology race, it is the only way to survive. What do you think is going to happen if the Chinese get ahead of us in terms of technology? They are going to march towards Moscow and the Berring Straits and they aren't going to look back! Think I am crazy? 1.2 billion people, the world's largest army, and world history says I am not. When the Chinese are charging the Golden Gate Bridge with satellite and space weaponry, stealth aircraft, advanced body armor, and low-yield nuclear weapons don't say Dean Kamen didn't warn you! The Chinese don't believe in this One-World-Love-Everybody-Lets-Get-Together-And-Hug-Each-Other nonsense. They are smart and they always know the score!

And if you don't like outsourcing, then don't live in state where the government drives out business with insane regulation and extreme taxation (i.e Massachusetts, California, Oregon, and Washington).

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

Well lets not get insane the chineese are falling to capitalism and democracy from the inside out. Have you seen the recent news about the unrest in Hong Kong waiting for democracy.

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

I hate to break it to you, but whether its authoritarian rule by a monarch, Republicanism with warloads, Communism, Capitialism, and Democracy, the Chinese will always have a historical desire to conquer and use their vast population to expand the size of their country.

The Chinese have shattered the theory that Capitialism breeds democracy. In fact, they are cracking down harder on dissidents then since the Cultural Revolution.

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

I agree on a theoretical level, bu China would have to really work hard against democracy to pull this off. Since the chinese want democracy, I don't see this as likely. Maybe some sort of North Korean + Rebel Chinese movement...

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

After reading all the posts, I'm glad to hear the other side(s) of the story. As I understand it, the global market is a trade-off. Yes, jobs are lost within the US, and placed elsewhere in the world, but the loss also creates opportunity for the growth of developing sectors within the US. With death comes life, as Joseph Campbell would say. It's painful to lose a job you care about and financial security, both my parents have experienced that in my lifetime, but that's the way things work. The most powerful statement of Dean's speech, I think, was (paraphrase): "There will always be room for people who work together." Isn't that what FIRST is all about? We're building an innovative AND conscientious society able to survive the birthing and growth of new technologies to the world.

btw, does anyone know where I might find a transcript of the speech?

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

Man I wish that was true.

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

First of all, we need to stop mixing up the terms nationalism and patriotism, because they are two distinctly different ideas. Nationalism is the concept of putting your country's culture, political system, and oftentims, though not in this case, race above those of all other countries. Patriotism, however, is a sense of devotion and/or love for your own country. It has nothing to do with how you view other nations.

The issue with outsourcing, which it seems many people fail realize, is that it affects more than just the unemployed engineers and their families. The way our education system is set up, if a community is losing jobs, they're paying less money in taxes, which means less money to their school district. That means that suddenly you may be losing teachers at your school, or textbooks in your classrooms, not just engineering jobs. This is not a superficial "gee, rich engineer can't buy an SUV anymore" issue, it's a matter of our nation's economy, and all the government entities connected to it, including schools that most of us attend, roads that all of us drive on, and public servants. Our country needs jobs to survive, and if people don't have them, we have no chances of remaining competitive in international technology. There is a domino effect that comes from outsourcing, that we shouldn't overlook.

Also, is it really fair to tell people that "if they don't like outsourcing, then don't live in a state where government drives out businesses??" Honestly, when someone gets laid off, first of all, they probably don't have the money to just get up and move, seeing as how they have NO INCOME, second, many of them have families who have commitments wherever they are, third, it's happening everywhere, and it's becoming harder and harder to avoid it these days.

Sidenote: India has a larger military in terms of manpower and the US spends over 4 times as much money on our military as China and India combined, so I'm not sure it's accurate to say China has the "world's largest army."

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

I believe Dean was preaching Nationalism, putting our country's economic and technological future above others. Nothing wrong with Nationalism. It is very healthy.

The fact of the matter is that people are leaving states like California, Oregon, and Washington in droves and moving to more business friendly states in our beloved Union. California's population growth is driven by immigration.

Not true. In terms of manpower, India has around 1.2 million on active duty and China has slightly over 2 million. China is currently spending around 100 billion on defense (they will usually only admit to around 20 billion, interesting how it works) and is acquiring and developing more advanced weaponry from Russia and our allies in Israel. The threat is there people.

www.globalsecurity.org

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

Please note that this is a long rant written late at night, however I have a some reputation points to spare and I think that it is important to say:

The more I read about Dean the more I realize that our idol-worship of him is misplaced.

I didn't hear his speech at nationals, but I have heard him speak on many different occasions. He may be a fine engineer but he is arrogant, hypocritical and usually just plain wrong.

I've heard him countless times talk with pride about how many states he's convinced to allow the Segway (using his huge team of lobbyists). In the same speeches he frequently makes fun of lawyers, lobbyists, and government.

The Segway was supposed to change the world, it is a disaster. Read the book on Ginger, its a fascinating look at how a great toy was hyped as a world-saving device it never had the potential to become. Dean was so caught up in his grandiose vision that he couldn't see the forest for the trees, he couldn't understand that his product could never deliver what he had promised even when real visionaries like Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos actually told him so. As a result, Dean has lost a great deal of credibility (something he himself admits readily). This is a frequent problem with Dean, he latches onto big picture ideas he doesn't really understand and proposes solutions that, while clever, don't work. Take the Segway, or the iBOT wheelchair that didn't win approval until this year, or even in a sense FIRST itself. The fact is that FIRST isn't about what Dean thinks its about. We aren't transforming the culture and we shouldn't be (and how wrong is it for a guy who famously abstains from popular culture to criticize that same popular culture he has no knowledge of!) Dean sees FIRST as a big-picture thing, about transforming the culture of the United States, but it isn't. Take the number of students who participate in FIRST, subtract the number who are inspired by FIRST, subtract the number who were already interested in Science/Technology, subtract the number who like FIRST but come out of it choosing a career path other than engineering. The number of people fulfilling Dean's vision ends up being so small as to be insignificant on the national level. However, FIRST isn't really about that, its really about inspiring individuals and communities, and here FIRST makes a HUGE difference. Most of the people at FIRST get this, Dean doesn't.

Dean is certainly genuine - I will give him that - but he isn't all that he is cracked up to be. Dean is no more worthy of our cult-worship (which we seem all too ready to hand out) someone like Donald Trump. Its the image we're worshipping, not the man.

How about instead of talking about Dean constantly we start talking about the mentors who actually make FIRST worthwhile. They are the inspiring ones, and they are the ones who are worthy of our attention.

Has Dean ever actually mentored a team? I know that Dave Lavery and other FIRST leaders do... why doesn't Dean?

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

I understand what you are trying to say, but this is not correct. When your job is outsourced it means the work you use to do here in this country is now being done in another country, and there is nothing else for you to do - YOUR job is lost and you are unemployed

its not tasks or functions that are being outsourced, its JOBs.

I have worked for companys that had started entire new industries, and completely lost their market to foriegn competition and are now closed. I have worked for companies that took all the core of their design and manufacturing and outsourced it to foriegn suppliers. The people who use to do that work here in the US are not doing it anymore. The company is in essence buying a product designed and manufactured on the other side of the world, placing their name (lable) on it, and selling it as if it were their own. If I told you which companies are doing this I think you would be shocked.

Re: Dean's Speech at Nationals
 

And let's not forget the ripple effect of someone losing their job to outsourcing. A group of engineers is laid off because their jobs are outsourced. Now there is no longer any need for any support staff to work for them (adminstrative/secretarial support, library support, photocopying people, mailroom people, etc.) and those positions are eliminated. The woman who worked in the library was her family's health care insurance provider so now the family is no longer able to afford to visit the doctor or purchase prescription drugs. The local pharmacist, who is trying to keep his independent business alive, has less customers. He, in turn, cannot afford to do the bathroom remodeling project he had planned for the year. So now the plumber (who was married to the library worker) is also scrambling to make ends meet. It's a vicious cycle.