Re: Draft..
 

REad through the article for better info, but there is no longer a way for students to dodge the draft, and anyone who has been drafted will be kept from fleeing to Canada through more extensive border control. And pretty much everyone from ages 18-26 gets drafted, except the really really rich.

Re: Draft..
 

Thousands of bills never make it to the president each year, thousands of bills never make it out of committees each year either....I seriously doubt they'll pull this off and pass this....Every few years this issue gets brought up and is eventually killed...in fact I think they've tried at least 3 different forms of that bill since military action began against Afghanistan...it will never pass.

If they do, ill have to maintain being 25 pounds underweight so I qualify for the physical hardship clause.... :ahh:

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Ah, that was the point in the article I skipped over.

Is it just me or does it seem the at US is keeping us trapped in our own country? You can't leave if there's a draft, you can't go anywhere else any other time because 'they may harbor terrorists' or they may hate americans. Now there would be required activities. What happened to freedom?


And I don't think I can achieve 25 pounds over weight. That would probably mean I need to gain at least 50 pounds. :)

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First of all, everyone is getting worked up over nothing. The draft will never pass. If it did, America as a whole would riot. The american public might support a draft uf say WWIII starts and the united states is directly threatened. I mean ships and planes coming towards our borders and our freedom is actually at risk, not the crap they feed us about our freedom being in danger from Saddam's weapons.

I would fight if the US was being invaded. I would not fight just because the president believes a place like Iraq or Vietnam is a risk to the security of our country.

If the U.S. wants to exercise it's strength as a superpower and attack countries in aggression, I refuse to support, or be a part of that effort.

Would I go to jail? I don't know. I can say I would, but nobody really knows until it happens...

I know one thing. I absolutely will not kill people because the President of the United States tells me that they're bad.

$0.02

Cory

Re: Draft..
 

I agree with Cory that this bill will not be signed into law. With support for the war in Iraq at an all-time low, it would be political suicide for many congresspersons and senators to try to push this through. This isn’t to say that no one will try, but it won’t succeed. This isn’t the right time, and these aren’t the right circumstances, and these aren’t the right wars that should require our country to conscript soldiers.

<tangent>I don’t see our soldiers as fighting for our country’s survival in Iraq or even in Afghanistan anymore. Does anyone believe that the people in Afghanistan are any better off under warlord control than under Taliban rule? Do people believe that the situation in Iraq will so drastically change between now and June 30 so that the US government can relinquish sufficient control to the Iraqi governing council so as not to appear to be ruling Iraq like a “conquered” territory? This has turned into two giant messes when it could have just been one (Afghanistan) to focus on. Who called it? http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=14696 </tangent>

Here are some of my feelings… I don’t think I would ever volunteer for the armed services. Combat doesn’t seem to be my calling in life. I sure as hell wouldn’t volunteer to go to war without some sort of undeniable evidence that my country and my way of life was at risk of being annihilated. I would allow myself to be drafted if another country was hell bent on destroying this country and it was “us or them.” But I will not allow myself to be drafted into the situation that we are in. I will not risk my life for a lie or an “intelligence error.” I believe very strongly that I am justified and right in feeling this way. If I’m sent to prison, then I will serve my sentence, but there’s always a way out of the country and I would probably explore that option first if need be.

Mad props to Cory ;)

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I'll make it simple. If there are enemy soldiers/planes/boats/dinghies coming this way, pass me a gun. That's just plain ol' self-defense, which is fine in my book. They're taking it to you, and you're fighting back.

But physically moving people over to a hostile situation doesn't lend itself to the self-defense defense IMHO. You're taking it to them.

Personally, I hate war. You will not see me fighting in a war, unless it falls into that self-defense category above. Hence why I'm getting into the field where the worst battle is dodgeball--elementary education.

By the way, if I recall my reading right, the way the draft works is that they have two sealed drums with balls in them. One has every day of the year, the other has numbers one through 366 (leap day). They draw one date and one number from each of the drums. So if May 20 was drawn first, but the number drawn was 362, then people born May 20 would only get drafted once everyone in that age from numbers 1 through 361 were picked. Once the order is set, 20-year-olds get picked first. Then they go to the 21-year-olds, then 22, then 23, and so on and so forth, with 18 and 19-year-olds being the last to get picked.

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I agree with all the previous posts about fighting in a war. In any war where my country was being attacked, and my family was in danger, I would definitely fight, but a war half a world away for a cause that doesn't affect me, that's not something I see worth fighting for.

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You mean there's a thread on our modern military actions, and you didn't invite me? :p

One problem: not all of us are proud to be an American these days. And unfortunately, our President essentially represents every American citizen weather we like it or not. So if I go somewhere that hates the US, I'm automatically hated myself. And, it doesn't help that Americans tend to always think we're the best at everything. Problem number two: our military might isn't as great as we think it is, our sportsmen and women aren't the best, hell, we aren't even number one in technological advancement (believe it or not, we are far down the list). My point: I am proud of people, but not it's entity.

Now, I love military history, strategy, and technology. It's just who I am. And while being a fighter pilot would be wicked awesome (very cool, for those who don't speak New Englandese), I would never volunteer for the United States military (note that I only said United States). Now, one exception (and I don't think you'd call it an exception, as this would fall under "basic life"): if we were attacked (and even then, there'd still be some scrutiny on the definition of "attacked"). If me or someone close to me is physically threatened, I will defend. That's also just who I am (yay, hero complex!). That being said, I'll probably never be joining up. Of course, I suffer from one problem myself: I'd make a pretty decent soldier. I'm big (not to be confused with tall), I have good aim, and I know my tech. So that brings me to this next thing:

Agreed. I personally don't think the draft would pass (although if it does, I'd love to see what those pro-war citizens think once they're the ones fighting). If it does, I'll be leaving this country for good (I hear Sweeden could use a FIRST team). A person should not be forced to fight for something that he doesn't believe in. Our country was built on fighting for what you believe in. Forcing us to fight for a cause we don't believe in is simply un-American, and downright hypocritical. And to be fair, I also don't think a draft should be done even if we were invaded. Again, if someone doesn't believe in the cause of defending ourselves, then they shouldn't have to fight it. Of course, if we were invaded, I'm sure we'd have plenty of willing volunteers to defend their homeland, so that's almost a moot point.

Conclusion: yeah, I'm not too big a fan of our government. We should not be in Iraq, I have mixed feelings on the invasion of Afghanistan, being in the Balkans was very questionable, and don't get me started on Vietnam. Now, my biggest point of the day: I turn 19 about a week before election day. I have a certain right. It's called voting. In case you couldn't tell, I'm not voting for Bush (and it should be noted that Kerry will probably get Rhode Island anyway, so I'll probably be voting for an Independent). If you are over 18 (and I know a lot of us FIRST veterans are), you gotta vote. And I'll even be frank on this. One vote doesn't matter. It's the voice behind that vote that matters. Make your voice heard.

So, how 'bout them Red Sox?

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I see that exactly as one of the major flaws within America's society today. Being that American's are not proud. If individuals will not stand up for what our original founders wanted us to represent, then why do people continue to flock here? Why do individuals stay here? America is about freedom. I see opportunity after opportunity, I was fortunate enough to be one of the first few generations of my family to be born here, and I would die for her. She provides so much to so many, yet so many will not provide for her. I think they need to have an emphasis in the new draft write up that ALL Americans holding citizenship will be drafted.

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Last I checked, the original founders fought to get away from a tyrant 3000 miles away. So we invade Iraq (for no real reason other than oil and to reelect Bush), and set up a puppet government. Not much different if you ask me.

On a side note, this is a very good debate we're having here. :)

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Thankfully, being proud of our country at all times isn’t a necessary precondition for being an American citizen. I believe that blind love and not questioning authority are more of a threat to this country than almost anything else. If you just go with the flow you’re just going to get your rights taken away (Sedition Act of 1918, Patriot Act, etc.), or you’ll end up fighting in some desert or jungle at the very best to save face to the rest of the world.

If you want to talk about standing up for what our founding fathers stood for then why do political parties exist after George Washington warned against them in his farewell address? The world has changed in many ways since 1776 and we should not be confined to the ideas and ideals of the 18th century. Doing so would only doom our country to fall sometime in the future. We must always adapt.

There are lots of reasons people come to America. A lot of people flock to America for better wages than they would make in their old country. They also come to America to practice their religion in the way that they want, and not just to the point that their old country allows. People come for better education for their families. This just scratches the surface of reasons people come here, but I don’t think people are always coming to America just because they think we’re doing the right thing with regard to the rest of the world. It would be a foolhardy mistake to believe that a country’s legal and illegal immigration rates equate to how well liked or supported that country is by the rest of the world.

America provides some limited assistance to those in need, but apparently second chances for all is not what America is about. If America was dedicated to assisting those in need there would be government sponsored healthcare for everyone inside our borders, the credit card companies and banks wouldn’t be allowed to push a “Bankruptcy Reform” bill through congress that would gut bankruptcy and make it impossible to get out from under the draconian shadow of MBNA, CitiGroup, et al. There are lots of problems with our country and the worst things that could be done are to ignore them, just talk about how great we are, or assume that things are good enough and shouldn’t need to be changed.

Re: Draft..
 

Dear Canadian Teams,

Anyone want a mentor? :D


Nah, with all due respect, those who support the war should be the first to go, then those who don't. If you want America to be in 5 countries fighting wars, then YOU should go and help. I'd happly support America, but not when it takes my citizenship for granted for the persut of money.

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I think that you guys are worried about something that won't happen. What is the likelihood of this draft?

Here is a better question:

Who authored and sponsored these bills and what is their intent?

Without even looking, my guess is that the authors are from the far left and the far right sides of the political spectrum. Both the anti-war (left) and protectionist (right) movements would have reasons to start the draft: they both want us out of Iraq right now.

I would be very suprised if I am wrong here, but please point it out if that is so.

Andy B.

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It's a really interesting subject, American identity. I'll have to confess and say, frankly, I don't have much. Yes, I live here, but I'm a first generation American (I think? Born in Russia...) and my loyalties are too liberal for war and such things. My main question is how can we have an american identity if we're constantly prejudiced against our own people, be they of any gender, race, etc etc. I don't see how a person can push pride in a country if there isn't pride in all the people of the country.

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Actually, I believe first-generation means the children of immigrants--your case seems to be immigrant. (My only reference is my grandmother, whose parents came from Ireland...and she's first-generation Irish.)

But back to the topic.