Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

It won't be anything that we use this year (I doubt it is really practical), but I am working with one of our students to create a controller that reads the electrical impulses of a muscle (say a bicep squeeze) and converts it into a useable signal. If it works we plan to have a demonstration model at the St. Louis regional.

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

116 has used a steering wheel with an attached throttle control. It was mounted on the same board as the switches. It worked and we competed with it in 2001. I couldn't tell you more about how they implemented it.



Wetzel

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

Just a side note, is this really FIRST legal? I can understand modifying a couple pins in a joystick is easy(I don't know about legal, see rules below), but using a game controller is more than likely illegal. Unless it was specially designed for standard 15-pin joystick ports without MIDI In, chances are slim to work. I can't speak for all controllers, but I know the N64 & Gamecube would require special circuitry to operate.

Steven

P.S.
N64 Controller Interface
GCN Controller Interface

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

I know there is much talk of what has been done by teams in previous years and I know a lot of it has been pretty cool but what I don't see are diagrams and white papers. If your team has used alternatives to the standard joysticks then please post a white paper or a wiring diagram or something.

BTW, If anyone is interested, I posted a wiring diagram for a joystick last year. It wasn't much but it is still floating around on CD somewhere.

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

Steven,

Those rules apply to the custom circuits that are on the robot itself, not what you use in the player station. I am currently traveling and am unable to locate the rules from 2001, but I know that it was legal then. I will see if I can find anyone on the team that remembers how it was implemented.


Wetzel

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

Steven,
The rule you quoted is for the robot controller interface as suggested above. The rules on OI wiring are these...
<R85> The Operator Interface Console designed by your team must fit on the 42” wide by 9” deep shelf in the Alliance Station and The Radio Modem connected to the Operator Interface must be able to reach the mounting bracket on the operator stations. Be sure to leave at least 48” of slack in the 9-pin cable.
And
5.7.2 Operator Interface Sensor Inputs
The exact wiring configuration for the joysticks, switches, potentiometers, LEDs, and analog sensors connected to the Operator Interface is not specified. Teams may wire these devices, within the rules as described below and according to the documentation supplied by Innovation First, in order to create a custom interface for the robot operators.
The second rule goes on to present examples and add a few more restrictions. The greatest of these is that the interface not use any power supply connections to the OI other than the LED outputs and sensor wiring as shown. That leaves a lot open to designing your own human interface. As always, check over the rules when the game is announced for further details, these rules may and often do change each year.

Digital control (was Re: Hacking Various Controllers)
 

I recently hacked up a controller, just to see what was involved. The switches were easy to handle, but the joysticks were a pain. I had to replace the joystick pots with 100K-ohm versions. The new pots didn't have exactly the same footprint as the old, so it took some effort to get it back together.

Anyway, this controller also has a digital D-pad which is essentially four contact switches (fwd/rev/left/right). I was thinking about changing the software to use the D-pad instead of the joysticks. The big problem is the lack of speed control. The analog joysticks provide about 128 speed gradients in any direction, whereas a digital interface provides two (on or off). I could, of course, use some other buttons to select speed, but I'm not going to get anywhere near 128 different speeds. And I'm guessing it wouldn't be as intuitive to the operators.

I'm wondering if any teams have used a strictly digital interface to control their robots? I'm not talking about digitally encoding the joystick positions; I'm thinking about getting rid of the joysticks altogether.

Re: Digital control (was Re: Hacking Various Controllers)
 

Just add a pot for throttle to your pad switches. I am sure you will be unhappy with it, but it can be done. You will need some software intervention for the switches since you do not want to go from forward to reverse at speed. (This tends to tear the tranny out and leave it in pieces on the floor.) The joysticks are something most people have already learned and translating to robot movement come fairly easily for most drivers.

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

(Sorry, I was on vacation...) So, does this mean a processor circuit can be build on the OI(meeting all the other rules). We have thought about doing this before, but always ruled it out due to the rules stating the circuits have to be on the robot. Just curious, could be a YMC(You Make the Call).

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

our mentor found this on line and modified it to control our robot. It works reasonably well and can drive our robot easily with the two joysticks. The only problem with this design is that when both thumbs are on the joysticks it becomes reasonably hard to use the other buttons at the same time (ie. trying to raise an arm while driving the bot). We may bring this to the regionals this year if we work all of the kinks out.

link to the controller
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=FSDAGP-TR

who thinks we should hack a ddr max game "controller" to drive the robot!

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

Steve,
The rules for 2004 that apply to your question is...
R86> Teams are permitted to connect a portable computing device (Laptop computer, PDAs, etc.) to the RS232
Output of the Dashboard Port of the Operator Interface for the purpose of displaying feedback from the
robot while competing in Competition matches. Portable computing devices may not be connected to
inputs on the Operator Interface. Please note that AC power will not be available at the playing field so
these devices will have to run on internal batteries.

So I would have to say No to your question. This would give you an unfair advantage over teams that only had switches and pots.

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

I was always happy with that rule, since it forces humans to be integral parts of feedback systems involved.

Now if only we could build a human which (who?) passed through all data unmodified and in real time... We need a better human...

Last year, we planned and began construction of an audio feedback system for the command team. We never had a chance to finish it, but I will post diagrams et al. as soon as I find them.

Re: Hacking Various Controllers
 

We tried the same controller but it was rejected by the drive team. They wanted something a little more full size and some of us felt that reliability might suffer. Joysticks do get a bit beatup during competition.

Controls and joysticks
 

Can you use any joysticks or controls you want?

Re: Controls and joysticks
 

Basically, see the rules, but unless they have major onboard processors, they are ok. Also, wearable controls are kosher too.