Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Hi everyone! Thanks for the wonderful replies to last weeks question. Here we go for this week!

Question of the Week (7/26/04):

If you could choose a playingfield surface other than carpet, what would you like it to be? Why?

As always, you can suggest any questions to me by contacting me through PM, e-mail (skrach42@aol.com), or AIM (QuietRiverRage1).

Have Fun!
-Andy Grady

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I know it's completely implausible, but I'd love to see a game on ice. It would just be cool and present a new challenge. Or maybe (warning, another crazy thing from my mind) a surface like they have on air hockey tables and make it so the robot would hafta glide. I think that would be cool...

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

How about shreadded cardboard? :D

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I really think ice would be cool. It would require teams to worry alot more about traction and driving.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

dirt/soil - bots would have to build wheels with tires to prevent dirt clogging up the gears and getting in with all the electonics, and the tires would need strong traction. This would be tough to put together but would be fun to see!

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

It would be interesting to see a combination of very different materials on the field. For example, rubber matting and the relatively polycarbonate from this year. If the game was designed properly, there could be some robots that would try to stay on one surface because they perform better on it.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Velcro...

Imagine the playing field with one side...the tires with the other...
The power needed...The Sound Made!!!!!!!

Positioning would conquer!

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I like the idea of a lot of different surfaces...

If I had to pick one... rocks. Lots of large rocks. That would be hard to do...

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I have to agree with the idea of different surfaces... I remember seeing a demo on TV for the Segway when it first came out and they showed it traversing gravel, sand, water (puddle) as well as a smooth asphalt surface.

Of course, people who help BUILD the playing fields (like my husband) will kill me for that idea!

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

How about... um... tile or concrete? Something that every team has available to practice on... not very creative but highly practical.

If not, sand. We got plenty of that out here in Phoenix. ;p

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Many times on these forums people have suggested using some sort of very tough, not smoothe surface. I agree that it would make constructing the robot much more of a challenge, but I think it will never happen because it puts most kinds of autonomous modes out of the reach of all but the most advanced teams. Look how many teams had trouble this year on carpet with a field of exactly known dimensions...

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Very Punny.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I think a field with different type of sufaces is cool. Like this past season and 2003. maybe with two extremes like ice and then rubber or something like that. But I think that carpet is too old.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

frankly i like the practical choice of concrete.....i liked that grating in 2003....i also like the fact that the surface changed from the carpet to the grating.....

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Sure, ice is a nice idea. But why not some snow on concrete? Wet concrete? Concrete with oil spilt on it? Why does concrete seem like such a great idea? Is it because it is so concrete? :rolleyes:

So yeah, I would go with concrete. I know someone mentioned it before, but thought I'd add to it.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

As a voice of reason I like carpet. The big thing is all of the idea so far entitle a lot of work for setup and tear down. The base for the venues change from place to place. We have had ice with hard plastic covering. Ice with fibre board covering, hardwood flooring, concrete and asphalt. I can just see us trying to bring in 3 trucks of dirt into a gym with hardwood flooring.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

yeah i agree carpeting is goin on forever--- concrete is simple and easy for everyone to practice on--it's everywhere and so is title--but yeah not much fun--

now ice umm hard in florida to just get ice to practice on now-- all well0-it's all good

other surfaces--lol--rocks well interesting--tough but would be a nice challenge-- how about grass and dirt and all that stuff-- just keep it junk out of the gearboxes that's all

as long as it's easy to set up i'm all good-- we don't have that much to store stuff and place to practice on my team-- don't want the school to kick us out now ;)


happy thinking of new surfaces!!!

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

just a little twist in this thread... the field size...

the field size has been same for a few years... does anyone think that the size should be changed that way more obstacles can be added in the game....?

also all the ideas that were pointed out in the thread sounds really interesting...

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

You can't really change the field size to the venues for the regionals. Like UCF you barely fit the playing field inside the gym.

Now for types of surfaces for a playing field.... what about plywood? I mean we use enough of it to make the components of the field. Actually if there is going to be multiple surfaces like in 2003, a simple field like the one in 2002 would be nice.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I've got an idea...

Duct tape.

It's cheap, widely available, and traction would be FUN again!

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I really like the multiple surface challenge, especially the way it was employed in 03. There's something about that slippery HDPE on top of that ramp that was very cool to me.

That being said flat carpet with simple field objects like in 02 made for a "go get em" kind of game that led to some awesome machines. After two years of really "busy" fields, I'd love to see the game "opened up" again.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Actually I want to use it on the robot. They could give an award out for it where everything but the penumatics, wiring, motors, etc.... has to made out of it. C'mon, they've already got a contest for making your outfit out of it for prom. That and I am sure anyone who has worked in the pits wished they could use it to fix or tape something down.

I agree that the fields have gotten crowded with massive obstacles and other elements of the playfield like balls and bins in the past two seasons. In 2000, you had room to move around (well under or over) the main giant obstacle of a ramp and ball hoppers. That type of game had some interesting designs as well. 2002 too with a big open field produced some neat designs as well. But as 2002 showed, it needs to more than just a shoving match. :yikes:

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I would really like to see a King of the Hill type format again, but this time have the top be an incredibly slippy surface and say the area surrounding that would incredibly rough and tough to get up. i think that would make it a true king of the hill.

I do think that itll end up being carpeting and if there is another surface-it would be for king of the hill, and most likely slick, but not to an extreme.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I'd have to go with Max L.'s idea (different surfaces), those of which would include ice...a rough, irregular, rocky surface would definitely be interesting too. This whole idea of different surfaces would definitely take FRC to a new dimension and would be a challenging game element....:)

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I would say either a trampoline surface cuz that would be funny to watch the robots drive around on it, or sand because it reminds me of the beach and surfing. haha Ice would be cool too. A bit slippery but cool. If I want to be really creative id have to say peanut butter because that would just be kool. a little sloppy and messy and impossible to drive on, but cool haha :yikes:

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I'm surprised noone's added the obligatory "let's have a water game!" comment, yet :p

While it would be incredibly cool, it's also entirely impractical. I suppose you could try to hold competitions in venues with pools... but it really would be a huge hassle.

I can see it now.. "yes, I'd like to reserve the pool for a robotics competition." "The pool?" "Yes, the pool."

In all serious, though, I agree with Steve W. Carpet is the easiest material to use, and I forsee FIRST sticking with it, at least for the main flooring of the field. Other materials may be used, sortof like the HDPE and wire mesh in previous seasons, but the main flooring will likely stay carpet. It's just the easiest to deal with.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I'll second (or third) the carpet. Anything involving liquid or something potentially messy can cause all sorts of trouble in terms of electrical systems, not to mention a mess to clean up when removing robots from the field. Water, snow, oil, ice + 120 amps of power = recipe for disaster. Concrete would be interesting, but not readily avaliable as a surface in all venues.

I also like the variety idea. Perhaps one section of the field could be lexan, another shag carpet, and yet another something like astroturf. The most practical materials are the ones which can easily be carted around from regional to regional, applied over any existing surface, and are as re-usable as possible.

Barring those conditions, I'd say rolls of sod would make an interesting field. Nothing beats a lush green lawn for robots to play on!

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I'd like to see dry ice, it melts into smoke, so it's hard to see through it, but also it melts, so after a while the carpet is there. It's like you have to deal with this hard drive on surface, then for the last few seconds you have good traction. Only problem is price.... and melting.... and cold....

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

i would also like to see a multiple surface playing field. Dirt, rocks, an inclined plane, and some asphalt.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

That's prettymuch taking the thoughts out of my head.

Although to actually answer the question: dried corn, just because it's classic.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I think maybe like a king of the hill only will a trough filled with sand or like those rounded pebbles that used to be on playgrounds would be cool. I also think something like a smoke screen would add an interesting element to it, but it would also increase the hazard level and therfore not be practical, but it would be cool.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Grass would be pretty sweet to see. The all-natural stuff. It's somewhat irregular, so teams would have to compensate for the abnormalities somehow. And they'd have to be more careful so as to not ruin the playing field.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I think we need to go back to the beginning and have a field of corn. I know that sounds wierd but it might be kind of cool. It would most likely require a drivebase without the regular tires. In the middle, or somewhere, there should be some other type of substance. (Could be ice, grass, tile or keep it with the carpet.) My other idea for a new field surface is the type of tile schools usually use.(Big waxed tiles) That would make the field slipery like ice but hard like regular tiles. I think that would be fun to see robots on slipery surfaces!
-Kyle

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Sand... the texture changes almost constantly as it is driven over aaaaand you have to deal with the ever-present danger of small particles getting into electrical equipment.

muahahahaaaa ;)

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Rok on! ya that would be so cool if it went back to the beginning with the corn stuff again. I think theysum year they should definetly do that again. I also think that ice would be cool too. slippery lol itd be tough. The carpet seems to boring haha

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

How about a ball pit like at Chuck-E-Cheeze or having rollers (like on a conveyor) made out of PVC pipe? This wouldn't cover the whole field but instead form a "hazard area" that you could either try avoiding or designing a robot to deal with it. This would partially divide the field and your score could be partially based on how long it takes you to get across the field. You would either take the "scenic route" and avoide these but lose points or if your robot is capable ignore the hazards and go staight across.

Or I still like the snow idea. Nothing like seeing a robot on skis or a snowboard :cool: For the southern and southwest teams don't worry, we have plenty of snow up here and we'd be happy to ship you as much as you want. ;) I might even try to convince those in New Hampshire to include snow in the KOP for you too! :p

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

AHHHHHH!! You stole my idea.. lol I guess great minds think alike.. lol

Anyways, the other thing I was thinking and I know it's been said before, is velcro. I like that concept.. I would divide the playing field into zones (circa: 2002) and make 3 zones the hooking material and 2 zones the soft material.
It would be very hard to gain traction on either of the materials that make up velcro, unless you have the mating surface as wheels, which would be dissalowed if I designed the game rules, just because...:cool:

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

ooh, one more medium....jello!

it's mushy and wobbly - yet solid at the same time!!!

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I like this idea. Only instead of one or the other make it so that the ball pit is right next to the pvc conveyor, and have the teams have to go through both, and figure out some game around it. Like they have to get a certain object off the conveyor and bring it back to a base or something like that.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

:D Diffrent surfaces would be awesome, definitely ice would be cool. Sand would also be very challenging. I think diffrent surfaces is a great idea. I think a great one would be rubber that they make kids play grounds out of, but thats just me. Anyway love the idea.





Drew Disbury
Team#1251 Tech Tigers
2004 Florida regional rookie all-stars

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Along the same line of thinking...

Astroturf...

Its a diffrent surface from carpet, but you can still roll it up at the end of the Regional just like carpet.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I was thinking a 3D structure would be fun to navigate on. Like a grating at one foot spacing made out of PVC pipe. Your robot could either bump along going in and out of the openings or stay up on the pipes for a smooth ride.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Formica.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Just a thought--why not a whole playground?

I mean, they're fairly compact, can be configured a bajillion ways, and can be disassembled pretty easily (so it seems). Stick some cameras inside so everyone can see, and bada-bing! You can practice at McDonald's.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

So far, I have read about changing the field surface and size. I haven't heard anybody mention changing the robots instead of the field, other than the "water game" idea. What if they changed the game so that wheels could not be used for traction? I remember a team in 2003 that actually had a series of legs that walked instead of using wheels. I think it was team 276. Whoever had a cow mascot that year and designed their robot to look like a cow. Anyway, I think it would be cool to change the way you move.

Another option could be to change where you start from. Instead of starting on the ground level, start on top of a platform or on a wicked angle. If you give enough angle or change the way it is used, carpet can become very bad for traction. Imagine what would've happened if they put the carpet on the platform and put the HDPE on the floor this year. Changing the field surface is a good idea, but maybe changing the way they are used would be more practical. Maybe its a bad idea, but those are my thoughts. :rolleyes:

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

Masonite - shiny side up cheap and extremely slick. I like plywood also.
and for a twist dynamic smaller obstacles/challenges the field can be set up by your opponent with small ramps balls barrier whatevers of thier choice in say like 30 seconds.

Re: Question of the Week!!! (7/26/04)
 

I think plywood is definitely a good idea...its cheap and almost anyone can get their hands on it. How about sheetrock?? Also, what if you had a playing field that used materials differing from eachother radically, for example, alternating bands of rubber and lexan. That would make it really challenging to design your drive train to handle radically different conditions. I could just see robots with good traction on rubber slide out of control once they hit a slippery surface...this would create a need for good driving skills.