John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

What is your opinion of John Kerry?

1) What do you like about him?
2) What don't you like about him?
3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him?
4) WHat do you think of his ability as a public speaker?
5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)?
6) Any other comments

Have fun with this thread; in other words, be polite to those who have different opinions than you do.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) I think he is a person that will associate with the american public. He seems pretty much down to earth and does what he likes. He also seems like he will be a hard worker and really try to improve upon everything.
2) He has yet to really say about how he will go about things. And his relationship with John Edwards is getting kind of touchy...
3) Just start saying how he will go about things and nothing really past that. I pretty much like him.
4) Could definitely be improved upon, but wayyyyyyyy better then Bush. Clinton is just sooo much better at speaking then any other semi-current president.
5) Ya-most of the stuff he stated in his address i was all for. Especially the stem cell research idea, i really think it would benefit the future Americans. Just his morals seem alot better then Bush too.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

*hopes this does not start a flame war*

1) I have met him a few times, and he does seem like a good person. I was a Dean man myself but right now its love who you are with.
2) Nothing in-particular- he just does not excite me like Dean and Clinton do.
3) Get more angry- he needs more visible passion
4) He is not a *great* speaker but he does a fairly good job. I loved his Nomination acceptance speech.
5) All accept gay marriage. I think the gay population should be able to marry, not just have a civil union.
6) I think he will be a much better president than GWB

Lets keep this under control guys, I know threads like this in the past have gotten carried away (and I am guilty of helping it move in that direction along with others)

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) What do you like about him? I really like his connection to people, it appeals to me. I like his connection to his family...it definitly makes me more comfortable having him as president if he's not just in it alone.
2) What don't you like about him? He lacks details on some things, which is a bit uncomfortable for me.
3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him? Public speaking mentioned, I think he just needs to be careful where he steps and be sure to take the highroad of the campaign. He doesn't need to stoop to the level of petty insults (I don't think he has yet but these things happen) to earn American respect.
4) WHat do you think of his ability as a public speaker? Rather lacking in comparison to others, but it could be changed.
5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)? Gay marriage is definitly an issue for me since I am friends with many homosexual individuals, but I would be happy that he does support giving them more rights and possibly opening the road to more progress, rather than closing things down with a constitutional amendment.
6) I'm not political guru, but I'm really interested in seeing where this election takes us.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) I think that Kerry is more down-to-earth than Bush was and does things more for the people than for himself.
2) I can't really answer this, but I would say that if I was voting then I wouldn't really vote for Kerry, but against Bush. Also, because I don't agree with most things that he did or even his brother (governor of Florida). I also don't like how they (the Republicans) always attack people who are democrats and things that democrats do (like Clinton's incident with Monika).
3) I would like to hear him give more details about how he will do the things that he promises and be more specific. Yes someone can say "If I ampresident, I will do everything that everyone wants and make everyone happy", but he only has four years (maybe eight) and might not have enough money and time to get all of it done.
4) I don't like to elect someone based on the surface, like how well they speak. However, I do think that being able to speak well to some extent is important as president. I think that he speaks well enough. I do not think that Bush speaks well enough.
5) I agree with him in economics, since my family owns a small buisness that isn't doing very well because of companies that move in right accross the street and can have lower prices than us since their products are made in other countries. I also don't like buying non-American cars. I don't think that he will be able to do much different in the way of Iraq, but I don't know much about that.
6) One thing that I don't like is that whenever I talk to someone who is a republican and mention anything about politics, they attack me and make me feel stupid because I don't support the president or I am a traitor. I agree with Kerry and Edwards that the country shouldn't be seperated by republicans or democrats, I just think that some people should respect other people's beliefs and understand that it is ok to not agree with the president. This is not a dictatorship! Same when you talk to repiblicans about that movie F. 9/11. I don't see anything wrong with making a movie that does not support the president's decisions or actions. Making movies like that and questioning what the president does helps us to improve.

Another issue that I have about that movie is the amazing number of people, generally republican, who criticize the movie and will fight to death that the movie is attacking the president and is not supporting him and shouldn't have been made, when they have never seen the movie. Now, I haven't seen it so I won't say whether I think it attacks the president or not, but regardless, it is ok to attack the president's actions, just as long as you don't attack him personally.

Sorry if this is too off-topic.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Anybody but Bush.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

OHHHHH NO! You didn't follow the format for this thread :ahh: its all ruined!

just kidding

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Erin - comon now - you of all people should know that just saying that would start a flame war here on CD - and we are gonna try to avoid that...(like the god poll...)

Ok - now - My answers

1. There isn't much that I like about him...I will give credit for his blue eyes...? :D
2. His political views and the way he is claming about his 3 purple hearts - but on bills he has rejected - and testmony (if i'm not crossing CNN shows) of his battle group - he seems to be total tree-huggin hippie.
3. Totaly change his views on the economy
4. His speaking overall is good. I will give credit on this. Bush can't speak worth squat.
5. The economy - if you look at the trend - it's always gone up and than back down. I am quite fine that the economy is the way it is. I say keep going towards the war. Nor do I put any blame what so ever on the 9/11 on Bush. Lets be realistic - for how many people that have to go through the terminals...it's just insane...
6. Yes - I am part arabic. I will be voting for Bush for another 4 years...

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

I like that he can speak well, in ways that connect to and with people, rather than divide them. I was very impressed with both his and his veep candidate's speeches at the DNC. We need a representative of this nation who can not only speak well but speak to more than just their preferred portion of the voting public. And he does so this very well.
Well, to tell the truth, despite claims of him as a crazy Massachusetts$@#liberal, I don't consider him liberal enough... there are a few issues I consider very important that I don't think he takes a stand on enough, among them gay marriage.

I very much dislike the way this country is moving right now... economically, politically... even a moderate would be good right now. I consider George W. Bush neither compassionate nor conservative. John Kerry, in my view, is moderately liberal, if that makes any sense.
I think that he needs to do a better job.
Very good. Not only is he good at creating speeches (or at least his speechwriters are, if he has any at this point), he is very good at delivering them.
Most of 'em, although in many cases (see above) I don't think he has expounded upon or taken enough of a stand on certain issues I consider very important.
Like Erin, although I wasn't going to mention it, I am also for Anybody But Bush. As I've written in previous posts in other threads, I cannot with any conscience vote for George W. Bush, so Kerry it is, despite some of the issues he doesn't address.

Endcap: I'm not trying to start a flame war here, just explaining what I think of him. He's got my vote, at any rate.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1.) He isnt bush
2.) He is still a politician
3.) Like all politicians, be who they are, not who they think the public wants them to be.
4.) I was at his first stop after the convention, and I can honestly say I was impressed. (yay for Scranton, North East PA for life yo)
5.) I agree with him more than bush
6.) Personally, I dont like him, or bush, but I feel Kerry is capable of doing a better job.

I did not enter reasons for my views because they are mine. I feel that not enough people draw their own conclusions anymore. So I will keep mine to myself, unless personally asked for them.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

He is VERY good, with the reasons being that he KNOWS how to make the economy grow larger and produce jobs for families that currently are poor or near it, struggling to get by. I mean, he's a Democrat, just like Bill Clinton was, who created millions of new jobs and gave the American Economy a $1 TRILLION surplus, which BUSH wasted on an unneeded tax cut (NOT put here to cause a major debate, war, etc.) Using the money in that economy, he boosted the education, healthcare, and other systems in this nation, giving the people what they needed. John Kerry will most likely do the same, and with the new fronteir of terror to tackle, he'll probably be better than Clinton was. I can say so much more, including his Vietnam and other events he shaped in his political career. But, that's it.

For more information and ideas, goto Kerry or Bush and Why?

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

John Kerry appears to be a good guy. But I disagree with him on many issues.

1. Likes: compared to other politicians, he relates to the people pretty well. He definitely could improve in this area, but he is better than Bush with regard to charisma.
2. Dislikes: I disagree with the majority of his voting record. The money allocation / income generation / budget issues are different than what I would prefer. As a fellow Catholic, I disagree with his stance on abortion. I dislike the fact that he claims that he would defend our country well, but has seemed to vote against most defense budget items (he voted against many defense programs that we currently use).
3. I would like and respect him more if he simply stuck to what he is. While I still disagree with his voting record, he seems to be trying to appear more moderate these days. This may earn votes, but his character suffers.
4. I thought that his DNC speech was excellent. Sure, he rushed through many points, but he had to get it done. He was sweating, passionate, and clear. He laid out the issues and sold a good story. Up until that speech, I have not seen him give a good one. He hit a home run, I thought.
5. I disagree with him for many of the issues. Lowering the taxes on middle class and small businesses is great, but where is the $$ coming from to fund a socialized healthcare industry? He would have to raise taxes greatly on the upper class (who already have a drastically higher tax bracket, btw), raise taxes on large corporations (you know... the companies that put many of us to work), and decrease spending in many areas. I agree with his plan to bring other countries to help with Iraq, but we don't need to cow-tow to France and Germany to do this. I agree with his positions on early childhood development (Early Head Start, etc.).
6. It is going to be an interesting campaign. Hopefully, the voter turnout will be high.

Andy B.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) His down-to-earth nature. Besides Dean, he was definitely the next best candidate (not counting Sharpton - kidding). I like Dean's excitement better, but Kerry seems more the "presidential type." He's strong in his convictions and isn't afraid to say what he feels (plus his wife told a reporter to "shove it").
2) The fact that he tends to change his point of view. It isn't as bad as the right likes to make it out to be, but still, it is a bit frustrating sometimes.
3) Be more excited. Like I said before, I liked Dean's energy a lot better. I must say, though, that at the DNC his speech was excellent.
4) Excellent. Very convincing. There is something about him that makes him seem trustworthy. I had to take myself down a notch once or twice while watching the DNC because I found myself believing absolutely in everything he was saying (though I know most of it has either been said before without result or just said to gain votes).
5) I agree with his positions. To respond to something someone said earlier, he is not ashamed of his voting record in the Senate - it's no big secret that he came home from Vietnam and became and anti-war protester. And I respect him for that.
6) I have no other comments for this post, but I would just like to say how surprised I am that everyone is being mature about this thread - considering that it's one of the three things you shouldn't discuss (the other two being religion and, of course, the Great Pumpkin).

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Lets keep it clean- that is just a low blow

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

C'mon David...no need for that toilet humor! :D

(sorry, couldn't resist)

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) What do you like about him?
He's the best hope of getting Bush out of office. He's not running a negative campaign.

2) What don't you like about him?
He tends to flip flop with whatever the media is saying.

3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him?
Impress me as a public speaker---the man lacks charisma in comparison to his running mate.

4) WHat do you think of his ability as a public speaker?'
Not impressed. Edwards showed him, and everybody else, up at the 2004 Democratic National Convention, in my opinion.

5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)?
For the most part, yes.

6) Any other comments.
I'd rather see an Independent candidate in office, but if everybody doesn't suck it up and vote Democratic this year, we'll have Bush back in office, which isn't good for anybody. Err, well, not the lower 99% of people, anyways.

To sum it up: Kerry may not be much more of a solid candidate than Bush, but Bush has proven his inability to run the United States of America already---Kerry is yet to do so.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Nothing

Everything

Publically admit that he is a sycophant and is seeking help.

Very good, but irrelevant: I am only interested in policies supported by a candidate, not how well he can "charm" people into voting for him.

None

Don't vote for him. Instead, check out the great variety of third parties available, like the Reform Pary (my favorite).

Regards.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

And "Anyone but Bush" isn't? Please. :rolleyes: I've read a few statements in this thread I would considering low blows as well - but oh man, when someone posts an image... that's when it gets SERIOUS. :ahh:

/ends rant

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) What do you like about him?

I think he can spell Massachusetts. I hope he stays there.
He’s one of the most successful gigolos in America.

2) What don't you like about him?

He spent four months in Nam and 18 years in the Senate, but didn’t “report for duty” until last month, when he flaunted the former and ran away from the later.
He trotted out his “band of brothers”, each of whom must have forgotten that he spit upon them all in ’71 before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
He voted for the war, and against body armor. Yada Yada…
In short, he’s a phony – with a capital PH.

3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him?

Enter into private practice with Al Gore. Together they could patch the ozone hole, assuming they can stop the reversal of the earth’s magnetic field.

4) What do you think of his ability as a public speaker?

He does his best to sound presidential. I bet he practiced it way back in Nam. Maybe he has some footage.

5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)?

What positions? All I hear are empty promises – 10 million jobs – French kisses.

6) Any other comments

Who would Osama vote for?

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

To take a different route on this thread...

What do you like about this thread?
It is meant to discuss the question of the incoming political candidates in such a manner that would highlight why people like or dislike them and also promote means of discussion.

What don't you like about this thread?
It is turning into a battle of parties, all based around a set of assumed insults. It's immature, on both sides.

What could happen to improve my opinion of this thread?
Maybe people should start answering the questions that are asked. I am honestly interested in hearing why people like George W Bush and why people like John Kerry. Stating who you are voting for means you are stating that you prefer who you are voting for over the other candidate. Let us leave it at that.

What do you think of the abilities of those posting flames on this thread as speakers?
There are personal attacks...read on above. Enjoy. Some of you may not get along, but at least make an effort to do so. I don't have a high opinion of people who can't keep their political jokes in good taste to pms, no matter what party they are from.

Do you agree with the policies posted here?
I believe I posted earlier as to why I support John Kerry. I agree with some things people have said. Mr. Dognaux stated there were also targets against republicans. A good point, but that doesn't mean we can return an insult for another. I too am guilty of "party bashing" for that I apologize because reading thru I just realized how much of an idiot I must have looked like.

Any other comments?
I was under the impression that FIRST was a program for those of highschool age, as well as their mentors, and that the forums are a place to discuss all issues between high school aged participants, their mentors, volunteers and anyone else involved with the FIRST program in anyway. Read: this is not a misinformed kindergarten class.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Let's focus on the issues, and not make this a flamewar. Genia is right -
Our country is based upon the fact that you can say and believe whatever you want. Let people express their views, and don't blast someone based upon what they believe. You are free to express your views as much as you want, but just don't bash others because they have different beliefs.
With that said, I am a democrat, I will be voting for Kerry, and I think he's the best man for the job. Keeping with the original format,
1) What do you like about him? He is a strong family man who has America's best interests at heart. His principles on social, economic, and world issues coincide with mine, too. He is also a good public speaker
2) What don't you like about him? The fact that he can sometimes come across as boring
3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him? Let Edwards do more of the talking
4) WHat do you think of his ability as a public speaker? Not the best in the world, but better than GEorge W, who blinks every time he has to think on his feet and cannot say anything in public that isnt scripted
5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)? ALL
6) Any other comments Stop the flame war.

And Check OUt http://www.johnkerryisadouchebagbuti...manyway.c om/

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) What do you like about him? His war experience and he knows that war is NOT the always the answer.

2) What don't you like about him? He is still a capitalist that only worries about money.

3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him? If he would make more health care plans and helped the lower class find jobs... also if he would make the middle class more important than the upper.

4) WHat do you think of his ability as a public speaker? i think its just like any other trained politician that had attended classes to learn how to speak to the american public with lower IQs(still better than bushys nuclear speaking)

5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)? He seems to just tell people what they want to hear, after Moore everyone wants no war (which is good) but that is mostly what i have heard him talk about. The main thing i like is the "Improvin' forgien relations", becuae if the world hates us where will we live... Maybe nasa can spend 9.8 billion dollars and have us on mars by then.

6) Any other comments Ralph Nadar once said "if you dont get onto politics, politics will get onto you" he is the one people should really vote for.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) What do you like about him.
He is experienced, smart, and even though (or because of) his war experience he is anti-war and knows that war should always be the VERY last option, and he knows first-hand the consequences of war. He also cares more about the middle and lower class Americans, who are moreso left behind by the Bush Administration.

2) What don't you like about him?
He doesn't believe in gay marriage, which I support, but at least he says its a state's right issue.

3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him?
He could take a bigger stance on outlining what Bush has done wrong and how he will do differently.

4) What do you think of his ability as a public speaker?
He speaks as an intellectual, but he speaks to the lower classes, and he carries himself excellently. And he doesn't say "nucular."

5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)?
I agree with his economic policies and his mission to restore the respect of America abroad, but not the vote to go into Iraq. Overall, I agree with a vast majority of his positions.

6) Any other comments.
I think that Kerry will really steer America in the right direction, and get us back on track. And Teresa Heinz-Kerry will make a much better First Lady than Laura Bush, she is an intellectual and she is not afraid to speak her mind, which is much better than Laura who sits behind Bush and simply nods in agreement.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

1) What do you like about him.
He's anti Gay marriage (this is effective until he flip flops again...)

2) What don't you like about him?
Very dishonest. Check out www.swiftvets.com its a site created by his fellow soldiers in vietnam

3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him?
Actually look at what bush is doing (iraq, terrorism, etc) and see that is what we should keep doing. We have been on the receiving end of first strike for a VEEEEERY long time. When we finally attack first, everyone is all "BUSH SUCKS!!!!!"

4) What do you think of his ability as a public speaker?
no comment

5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)?
No comment as his positions are very unclear (i.e. flip flops)

6) Any other comments.
As far as i can tell so far Edwards is a better candidate than Kerry is.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Not to go off topic, but what is it that you have against gay marriage? Anti-gay marriage is the forcing of gays to become a second-class citizen. It is the persection of those that are different that yourself, and I see nothing different in homophobia than racism and anti-semitism.

Please tell me you don't believe the so-called "Swiftboat Veterans for Truth". They are liars and have supported Kerry in the past until they were paid to say otherwise. In fact, they didn't even serve with Kerry, they simply served in Vietnam at the same time, none of them were actually on Kerry's boat, none of them were there when he earned his medals.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Actually I know of at least one of them who actually did serve alongside Kerry for some time. I believe his name is Steve Gardner, look him up.

I really wish the whole Vietnam issue would be dropped - Bush has denounced ad bashing as a whole and has praised Kerry's military service. He has no control over the Swiftvets who use soft money - just as others do as well - to put political ads on TV. What more do you want? I'm failing to see how Bush is a part of this.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

I agree, the issue should be dropped, but there is at least some connection between the two. It has already been found that one of the vets in a SwiftBoat ad is a Bush re-election advisor. Or at least he was, he recently resigned after the connection was reported. Whether Bush knew of this connection and/or used it is still to be determined, however.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

I guess it’s that time again…

What could he do to improve your opinion of him?

He could stop pulling an “Al Gore” and loosen up a little. I hope that when he’s on the Daily Show tonight that he’ll be wearing something other than a suit; preferably something like jeans and a polo shirt. Something not overly relaxed, but something to show that he’s not always uptight. It’s superficial, but so is the American public.

What do you think of his ability as a public speaker?

He’s a great public speaker. He can go on and on about many topics as is the case with many Representatives and even more so with Senators. He speaks very eloquently, but I think that’s more of a liability than a positive for him (just like it was for Gore). I believe that the American people are afraid of intelligence. In general, we’re afraid to think that smart people might know better how to handle our country’s affairs. Clinton was extremely smart, yet he spoke in a way that everyone could understand him. Kerry speaks wonderfully, but you can sometimes see that he loses the dumber or less politically knowledgeable people with things like “I voted for [the war in Iraq] before I voted against [it].” That was a perfectly correct statement and a valid position if you knew the specifics of the two bills he was talking about. Things like that loose the stupid people. It’s rare when you see Bush lose the stupid people…

Do you agree with all, most, some or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)?

I was against the Iraq war from the outset. I was involved in debates even here on CD about Iraq back in the fall of 2002. I was right then, and I’m right today and it will be hard for me to forgive the Democrats for allowing Bush to, unquestioned and unchecked, have his way. It was bad for the world, and it was bad for American politics. I would stand even more firmly behind Kerry had he held a stance towards the war like Howard Dean’s or Dennis Kucinich’s.

I’m in favor of Gay Marriage or some other equivalent that would allow homosexuals the same legal rights and status as heterosexuals. The idea that marriage is either for procreation or that allowing homosexual marriages would somehow damage the children of America is a ridiculous statement. Not all married couples want or attempt to have children. Should they have their marriage licenses revoked? Homosexuality exists and has existed for thousands of years… Why does homosexual marriage have to be the threshold where it supposedly damages children in our society instead of homosexual relationships? This argument is based in religious roots and makes no sense to us nonbelievers (by the way, we have the right to not be religious, too).

I tend to agree with pretty much everything else he stands for with regard to abortion, economics, science, education, and other issues.

Any other comments?

“There you go again.” This whole “flip-flopper” thing has to end. Everyone in politics does it, and then in the same breath tries to use their opponents’ changes in mind frame against them. If you think Bush has never changed his mind, then you’re sorely mistaken. A ten-second search on Google brought up the following three sites which have Bush “flip-flops” and sources to back them up.

http://www.compassiongate.com/promises/index.htm
http://www.flipfloppingbush.com/
http://www.americanprogress.org/site...RJ8OVF&b=42263

This whole line of attack against Kerry should end since it’s OBVIOUS that he, like almost all other politicians, is being pragmatic.

My opposition to the war against Iraq doesn’t sound like “Bush sucks!” It sounds like…

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=28
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=34
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...9&postcount=44
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...0&postcount=54
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=68
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...5&postcount=69
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=70

If you want to have this debate, I’ve had more than enough time to refine my thoughts and I’d be willing to share them. Feel free to start another thread.

His positions are only unclear to those who are not willing to listen to them. Enough with the flip-flops.

They all served along side Kerry in the sense that they were in Vietnam, but every single soldier who served on a boat with Kerry supports his 5 medal career and also supports his candidacy. But yes, I agree that this whole thing should be dropped as long as the American people are told about the deceit by this organization.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

I'm not reading all that...Cliff notes please? :D

(Comon - you know ya wanna laugh. Just something to break the tension in the thread :p)

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

(ok, Mr. Spider, I will be the Fly)

Bill,

Boy, look at you! I know you're right fine young man, all growed up now, but don't need to be a-slightin' us stupid people. You see, just 'cause us simple folk don't reckon what's the difference between them thar two bills that Kerry voted on, it doesn't mean that we're stooopid.

Ooooo-weeee... Mr. Bill goes off to Washington for a summer and he comes back all high and mighty. What do I tell Thelma-Lou?

Now, if I cotton to your way of thinkin', then it's right fair for me to say that if you don't know much about pig farmin', you are plum stupid. Does that seem right to you? I don't know much about no politic'en, and you most likely don't know your way around a barn lot. That makes us 'bout even, you figure?

This has got my dander so riled up, I've got half a mind to go out to that Sanny Fransciso bay to whoop your behind. Come to think of it, I'm-a-gonna do it! Boy, I'll be in your neck of the woods during that Cal Games thingy you have out there, and you better get your head on a swivel. Look out for the guy in the overalls and arse-kickers.


Bubba the pig farmer


:)

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

LOL. Sorry Andy... Thank god you know I’m not a total goon. I usually end up refining my posts, but I forgot to proofread this time. I should have said something more along the lines of…

“That was a perfectly correct statement and a valid position if you knew the specifics of the two bills he was talking about. Things like that loose the people who spend less time paying attention to politics than I spend on CD. It’s rare when you see Bush those people…”

Or something less offensive...

But there are definitely some voters who pay attention to all things political and keep themselves up to date with everything that’s going on, and then there are some voters who read snippets here and there, see the ads on television, and watch a debate or two. My point was supposed to be that the first kind of person is more likely to realize that the famous Kerry sound byte was a legitimate statement, but when shown to the second kind of person it seems bizarre and further fuels the false idea that Kerry is the only person in the world who can’t make up his mind on issues.

<sarcasm>I’m not sure what to tell Thelma, but Lou (my sister) already knows I can be an arse sometimes. I didn’t become high and mighty out there in DC… I’ve always been a liberal elitist :p!</sarcasm>

I’ll try to keep my head on a swivel in October, but just in case I can’t, can I buy you a drink to make up for being an arse ;)?

Bill the left-winger in a top hat and monocle :p

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

I meant this guy was actually with him... like in his Platoon, or something. At least that's what they said during the interview and he definately didn't support him. I tried finding a transcript of it, but couldn't locate it... it was on *gasp* The O'Reilly Factor :]

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

It's a date, my friend. I just thought that you deserved some good-natured ribbing for your "stupid" logic. :)

-----

Bill does have a point. It is sad to see that many people don't care about politics, and they don't understand the point that Kerry made in what he is saying. In today's world, it is tough to blame a frustrated, disinterested voter.

In a perfect world, we would have informed voters, clean and truthful campaigns, and scandal-free candidates we can all look up to.

Crappy candidates and prevaricating campaigns cause disinterested voters while media over-exposure drives away good candidates.

Bill, next time you are in the beltway, fix this stuff.

Andy B.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

First, religion, I can give exact scripture refrences if you want them.
Second, disease, gays started a very big epidemic called HIV, its very nicely presented in the movie And the Band Played On http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106273/ there is no garuntee

I worded this very poorly, what I ment to say is his foreign policy isn't as good as Bushs'. Kerry is misleading people to think that attacking Iraq was a bad thing, and we shouldn't have done it, and we should keep out of other people's business. That was Clinton's plan, and look how well that worked. The USS Cole was bombed, what did we do about it.... NOTHING! In fact a lot of americans think that 9/11 was the first terrorist attack on america. In a sense it was the first on american *soil*, but when the cole was bombed we did nothing and we allowed the terrorists to regroup and start their next attack. In another one of Kerry's speaches he mentions how bush is not taking a multilateral approach at things, and how he would if he was in office. Do you think that when kerry gets in office France, Germany, and others will all a sudden start helping america any more than they are now?!?!?

Yes, I over-used the flip-flops. But there is a major difference in Kerry's Flip-flops and Bush's flip-flops. Bush has flip-floped in the past because the political situation has changed.(i.e. different situation, different approach) Kerry flip-flopped during the primaries to get ahead in the polls.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Allright, I'll need you to prove to me the exact instance in each religion's scripture where homosexuality is banned. But come on, religious scripture also demotes the position of women as well, do you believe women should still be held as second class citizens? Secondly, HIV is not based around homosexuality.

Actually, 9/11 wasn't the first terrorist attack on American soil. There were many racist bombings upon blacks in the 50s and 60s, then there was the '93 bombing of the WTC, then there was the OKC bombing, (I just thought of these off the top of my head in about 3 seconds) and many, many, many more attacks on American soil that are, or should be by definition, terrorist. There are also many terrorist groups in the US, the KKK, Christian Identity, and many likewise organizations, but I don't see the government going after these very much.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Ok, quick note: Piguy, not at all against your opinion, but would you possibly start a separate thread on the idea of scripture and homosexuality, though many have been done? Politics and religion should be separate, I think is the point being made, because this country SHOULD be based on the principles of Separation of Church and State. Though the scripture may disagree with, and this is a digression to a necessary new thread if you wish, at the moment the law and politics is the primary concern. Let us leave the scripture to the religious threads and the Kerryness/Bushness to the political threads.

As for the Kerry foreign policy issue, how exactly do you feel about foreign attitude towards the United States, or rather, the lack of positive attitude? That is among the more crucial issues of the time, imho.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Sorry Eugenia, but I just have one more point to make.

The allowance of gay marriage could help stop some of the spreading of HIV. It would encourage gay couples to stay together and not have many sex partners, just as "heterosexual" marriage does.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Ok, maybe some people don't know the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, They were cities that were destroyed in biblical times for their many abominations most prominant being homosexuality, thus comes the term sodomites being used to describe gays. These are scriptures condemning homosexuality:
Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind...(many other sins)...it is an abomination.
1st Corinthians 6:9 ...nor abusers of themselves with mankind
1st timothy 1:10 ... them that defile themselves with mankind
Jude 1:7 as Sodom and Gomorrah ... going after strange flesh
(btw these refrences were from the King James Version of the bible, you can probably find one readable online if you don't have one)

my mistake

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

First of all someone asked me why I personally had somthing against gays. Secondly, seperation of church and state was a law originally intended to keep churches from controlling the gov't like the roman catholic church has done in the past. This does not mean we should not use the bible or laws from the bible. In fact the bible is just as much a history book as it is a church law book, And the point of remembering history is so we don't make the same mistakes twice.

Also HIV started with gays, then there were some "unfaithful" gays who had sex with women and men and then it bacme widespread. Its not based around only gays.

But what's stopping from another disease similar to HIV from starting also. And you can't say that gays won't cheat on their partner as much as a heterosexual would.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Pi guy, I would really love to discuss this over pm. You mention some fascinating points, and while I respect that you feel probably a bit targeted right now, so is everyone. Please start a new thread.

There are points you make that can be applied to today. You mention that we should incorporate the bible and its laws into legislature. However, how about the Koran? The Torah? Aethiest principles? Pagan beliefs? If the bible has a place in law, then so must all other religions, including cult followings that consider themselves religions. This up for discussion in new thread. Meant to lead to -

I am not saying I consider George W Bush a violater of this law at the moment, I am just really unknowledgeable about this issue: Is there anybody else that is worried that President Bush is infringing on Church and State Separation? That is one of my main concerns in this election. I'm also not up to date with how Kerry has handled this issue. Someone clarify? Please?

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Religious beliefs should have no influence over whether or not our country recognizes gay marriages. There are many religions that oppose gay marriage, but there are religions that accept them. We should not eliminate the rights of the so-called minority. That is not what democracy is about. The minority needs to be afforded the same protection under the law as the majority, lest we become a tyrannical nation. Also, this whole AIDS/HIV thing being blamed solely on homosexuals is going way off base, and should be retracted.

There is no official state religion in the US, and the fact that everyone has the right to practice their own religion is a cornerstone of our democracy. It allows you to be a Catholic, a friend to be Jewish, another friend to be Hindu, and me to be an Atheist. You have the right to live by what your religion tells you to do, and I have the right to not have my life be affected by your religious quirks. Some things like not being allowed to kill people are both in your religion and in the law, but only because it’s absolutely obvious that people are morally significant figures, and logically it’s immoral to kill a morally significant figure. Do not incorrectly assume the fact that since a law corresponds with part of your religion that it’s there solely because of the religious influence. I shouldn’t be forced to live my life by the code of a Roman Catholic, Muslim, or any other religious person. As an American I deserve to be free from those strict beliefs of others.

It’s incorrect to say that “Kerry is misleading people to think that attacking Iraq was a bad thing, and we shouldn’t have done it, and we should keep out of other people’s business.” Kerry does not support isolationism which you imply. Kerry is also not misleading anyone when he says that attacking Iraq was a bad thing. Iraq is really about opinion, and yours is different from Kerry’s, which is different from mine. I do believe that attacking Iraq was a bad decision, and set a very dangerous precedent for the world. We were given false intelligence that was the basis for the case to go to war with Iraq. We didn’t provide convincing evidence to what Bush later backhandedly referred to as “Old Europe” (France, Germany, and Russia). We decided to, pretty much, unilaterally preemptively attack Iraq (with more than 10x the troops we sent into Afghanistan to try to find Osama bin Laden). We didn’t find weapons of mass destruction that were promised and testified to at the UN and in the Congress. Kerry’s the one misleading people? Wow…

Yes, I do believe that if Bush is removed from office that Kerry could convince France, Germany, and Russia to provide troops and/or funding to help stabilize Iraq. Every single one of us realizes that we need international support. That’s, luckily, not in question. If all we do is piss other countries off and tell them how ancient their thinking is they won’t want to help us, right? Well, that’s what Bush has been doing. He is obsessed with trying to appear steadfast that he cannot even bring himself to apologize to those other nations. If we apologized, stopped excluding companies from those nations from contracts in Iraq, and offered to give up sole control over military operations in Iraq to NATO or to the UN there would be the necessary incentives to help rebuild Iraq. We’re still the strongest country in the world. What harm does apologizing do?

To say that Bush changed his mind, but not to get more votes is ludicrous. Politicians move towards the center during election seasons to try to gain moderate votes. That’s the political cycle. In 2000 Bush stated that he thought Gay Marriages should be left up to the states, and this year he recommends an amendment to the Constitution that prohibits Gay Marriage entirely. There are many other examples in the links I posted previously of completely flagrant attempts by Bush to appease moderates back in 1999/2000 that were reneged after he attained office.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Allright, I am concerned about the infringement of church and state by bush. Bush is a very religous man and has shown religious motives. Now I'll talk about the one instance here where I know of an infringement between the seperation of church and state in which Bush supports: vouchers. Vouchers can be used to leave public schools and pay for private schooling. This includes, religious schools, within which religion is also taught. Thus, vouchers can be used to pay for religious schooling, a clear infringement of the separation of church and state. Proponents of vouchers say that they are to be used to get kids out of poor-performing schools. However, a main reson these schools underperform is because they do not have completely adequate funding. The money that would go to vouchers, however, could go towards the funding of public schools, which do not teach religion. And Kerry, as far as I know, does not support vouchers.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Dear Pi_guy578,

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your posts, and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind him that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the specific laws and how to best follow them.

-When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odour for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
-One of my mentors would like to sell his daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
-I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
-Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
-I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
-A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
-Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear contacts. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
-JVN gets his hair trimmed, including the hair around his temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should he die?
-I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
-Andy Baker has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev.24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev.20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

A Deeply Devoted Catholic,

::Sources Happy Fotoplasma?::

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Thanks Dan for recognizing religion.
I want to try and close my comments by saying a religious president is better than an athiest one. They usaully are more compassionate, thoughtful, overall are better people. (this applies to both kerry and bush, in fact all presidents, i don't know of any atheists ever being in office)

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Oh, now don't even go there. I myself am an athiest, and I find myself to be very compassionate, thoughtful, and I think I am a good person. Now just because I am a good person because of myself and not because a book tells me how I should behave does not make me any lesser than you or anyone else. One's religion does not make them better or worse than anyone else, which is something that I think carries with many athiests.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

This thread has been derailed, but I cannot, in good conscience, let this slide…
That is one of the most offensive things I’ve ever read. How dare you claim that you’re a better, more compassionate and thoughtful person than I am because you’re religious and I’m not. You have no fact to back up your absurd statement. Are abortion clinic bombers more companionate than Atheists just because they have religious ideals, however fanatic they are? The idea that a religious background makes you superior to those who do not practice a religion is tantamount to the supremacy ideals of the Nazis and White Supremacists.

Like I said before, if you want to live your life by your religion that’s your right, but it is inappropriate to demean those who do not share your faith. We Atheists and Agnostics are not second class citizens and deserve the same respect you enjoy as a person of faith.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

pi guy did not actually say anything about you, Bill. He didn't even make a claim about all presidents. He simply said that he believed that in general religiousness implies compassion, thoughtfulness, etc. I doubt you are denying him the right to make generalizations based on experience.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

While he did not mention me by name, it was quite plainly stated in that post that he believed that being religious made you a better person than someone who wasn’t religious. I made it pretty clear that that is what I took offense at. I used us as examples to add a more human element to his statements. You’re clarifying his statement in a way that he may not actually believe while both straw-manning and choosing red herrings from mine. If his “generalization based on experience” is that religious people are better than nonreligious people, then I take issue with it, but wouldn’t censor his opinion. I’m not doing so. If you want to take a side, then feel free.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Sigh.

I'm in shock at some of the stuff I'm reading here. I'm not sure what's bothering me more, the offensive nature of the comments being made towards homosexuals, or the fact that so many people seem perfectly okay with these attitudes.

Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint and their voice. I will never deny anyone that right. I guess I just had higher expectations of people.

By the way, HIV did not originate from homosexuals, it originated from Chimpanzees. http://www.avert.org/origins.htm. (As with any link that leads away from CD, please be aware that some content on avert.org may be considered inappropriate by some.) That being said, this is still no reason to ban marriage between consenting adult chimpanzees.

*Shakes head and walks away*

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

This is going downhill really fast in a handbag.

We need to stop this with religion. The 3 things I NEVER speak about extensivly are Politics, Religion, and money. There is no right way, and no wrong way.

Eather please stop this or I will personally ask Brandon/moderator to close this thread. This has to stop right here with all the religion and stuff. Get this thread back on topic ASAP.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

What is your opinion of John Kerry?

1) What do you like about him?
2) What don't you like about him?
3) What could he do to improve your opinion of him?
4) WHat do you think of his ability as a public speaker?
5) Do you agree with all, most, some, or none of his positions on key issues (i.e. the war in iraq, economics, etc)?
6) Any other comments

Have fun with this thread; in other words, be polite to those who have different opinions than you do.

There - that is the original topic. Please continue to speak about religion in your PMs.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

Excuse me, but what is wrong with religion?

It clearly fits into question two. Plenty of people do not like Bush because he toes the line of church and state far too much (in their opinion)

As long as people can debate constructively and civily without personally attacking each other, there is absolutely no reason why religion cannot be discussed, along with a myriad of other topics.

Unfortunately there are some users of CD wo cannot do what I just described, and threads like these go bad.

$0.02

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

You can simply say that you don't like the way religion plays a role in his choices, or that he is not letting the bible (or whatever) play enough of a roll - but this has turned into a topic about nothing but religion and a nasty one at that. So - if you wanna talk about nothing but religion that's fine by me - but do it in PM or start another thread. We don't need blble quotes here. THat is taking it far off topic IMHO.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

On the lines of going back on track...

So people have said why John Kerry is a good public speaker/bad public speaker. His ideas are good, or his ideas are bad.

But nobody has actaully attempted to answer this question directly (not that I can tell at least):
Is John Kerry Good Bad or Both?

I myself would argue Both. Does John Kerry represent many of my views? yes. Is he the ideal presidential candidate for me? No, not necessarily. Does this make him bad, not really in a way, but as far as the election goes I argue both. If John Kerry weren't flawed in some way, there would be no question as to who would win this Election. Same goes for George Bush, as far as flaws go. But exactly where on your lists does he fall? Maybe even a number...on a scale of 1-10, I'm gonna give him 7.5 Fair enough.

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

After reading a few of the more "zealous" posts in this thread, I was reminded of this quote:

Who falls under that heading in this thread? I count quite a few.

Wow.
Everytime I read these threads. (Read: ALL threads involving politics or religion) I lose respect for a few more users of these forums.

Thanks guys. In my opinion, you've set a new low.
Congratulations, you should all be very, VERY proud.

Seriously.
Pull your head out of your butt, and join the rest of the RATIONAL world.


First segway flame-wars, now this... It's a veritable golden age here on CD these days. :mad:

Carry on,

JVN

Re: John Kerry: Good, bad, or both?
 

I'm not sure that I'd give him even a 7.5. However, for reasons posted elsewhere (here), I would score our beloved incumbent significantly lower. John Kerry, to me, is not nearly liberal enough. However, my views do not tend to represent a significant proportion of this country, I have found, as they are too liberal for many. Many would argue that this election will be for the better of two evils, and I am inclined to agree. Do I think that John Kerry is not a good leader? No. I just have concerns.

On that note, Kerry would get my vote, and I'd probably give him a 7 on a scale of 1-10. Not bad, but he hasn't really impressed me yet. But, if the link to my previous post didn't tell you, Kerry would not have been my pick - in fact, Dean or Kucinich would probably have been more along the lines I would have liked to see.