What is a "Quality" post?
 

Lately I've been thinking about the quality of the Chief Delphi Forum. Many have commented the quality of posts has gone down hill since a few years ago. I've been reading a book recently and that inspired the following question I want to ask to all of you CD forum posters:

What is a "Quality" post?

What do you consider "Quality"? Why is some post better than others? How can you tell?

Like many of the questiosn I posted, I ask you to reply with thoughtful, insightful posts instead of the normal 2 sentence quick replies I see quite a bit now a days.

Lets see where this discussion lead us. :-)

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Quality? A short and simple post like this that doesn't take a whole page to read and is straight to the point. :D Now that's a quality post.

Though you know, that if one eloborates on his or her subject with even greater detail, more facts, etc. etc. then you have a real quality post. It has to be very descriptive, simple, "modularly complex" if you get what I mean. Everything sort of comes together.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

My idea of a quality post is one that is clear, concise and helpful. I don't mind seeing a little humor but when posts go off on "tangents" or have nothing to do with the discussion or thread at hand they seem to lack the "quality". A quality post will add and carry the discussion along and not sidetrack it. If a thread has to deal with a problem/issue or someone is looking for an answer to a question a "quality" post should answer the question or give information or suggestions to deal with the problem/issue. Providing facts or formulas to how you came about the answer is helpful too.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Another quality post is one that does not repeat the words of its predecessors. If a person asks for help in a thread, the answer or answers only need be stated once so that said person can find what is needed right away without having to search through the different posts as much.

Also, a post that doesn't point out what another has said in a negative way is quality. I really don't like to see any tension here on the forums.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

A quality post is the persons thoughts that make you think and make a point.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

This would be an example of a poor post:

Poor quality posts are made by people who respond to questions or make suggestions offering little beneficial advice. Essentially just posting so they can get their name in the thread.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Also, posts shouldn't be redundant.

But seriously, posts that offer factual information, not just speculation or an opinion (unless asked for) are high-quality

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Great question! I recently started a thread that I thought had become stale and unproductive. After a couple of slaps on the wrist (well deserved I might add) I sat back to look at the thread again. Sometimes what one person sees as a quality post and helpful, another finds useless. I think that every post should be looked at from more than one set of eyes and at different angles to tell whether or not it is a quality post. Even the state of mind that we have when we read something can alter our view of the post.

What is quality? My feeling is that a quality post is one that has been thought out and expressed with a sincere positive thought process.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

The way I see it, your role as a poster is to provide interesting material for others to read, such that they read it through. If they want to read it through, chances are that it's contributed to the discussion in a positive way. Using this basic test, one can determine whether or not a post is worth reading in its entirety (because that's what this is really about):

A quality post shows the poster's insight toward the topic.

Basically what this means is that (assuming a poster has any insight at all) if he can articulate his insight to readers, and demonstrate his intelligence, he has succeeded in making a good post. The fact of the matter is that good logical reasoning, reading, and writing, are what lead to a good post, and are even more important than actual knowledge of the topic. An intelligent poster knows when and what to post. The lesson we should learn from this is that these skills are the things we should be thinking about when we make a post. Am I really making sense? Am I being helpful? Someone who can CAD with the best of them is useless at helping a rookie to CAD if he can't make a readable post, and it really can be as simple as that.

Ken asked "How can you tell," and that's what I'll go into for a second here. Let me explain my reasoning: First of all, we need to admit that there are posters out there that we really like to listen to, and conversely, those whose posts we couldn't care less about, based on experience from reading their previous stuff. I personally triage posts for skimming based on a few points:

• Going off-topic without good cause does not show insight. If you can't show your ability to reason or develop an idea, save me the trouble of reading the rest your post.
• Agreeing, disagreeing, or saying that you don't know is useless. Nobody cares what you have to say unless you're actually offering something useful or helpful.
• The inability to spell or form coherent phrases does not show insight, and serves as a way for me to skim and decide whether reading a post is really worth my time. Much as we hate to admit it, this is the best indicator of whether a post is not worth reading through.
• An argument is always good, but unfortunately, many of the people on this forum are not mature enough to participate intelligently in one. This makes threads get out of hand, or results in people trying to lock perfectly good ones. So while argumentative posts are not bad per se, they can mess up threads, making them pseudo-bad-quality.
• As it turns out, expository essay skills really help. If you can state your position and then support it later if anyone cares to read, you've made a good post. As such, there's nothing necessarily wrong with "the normal 2 sentence quick replies" we are seeing. In fact, chances are I'll read them, which, as I theorized at the start, is the whole point.
• A new problem in this forum is what I call rep-bait. These are fluffy posts meant to appease one or more individuals in order to garner rep points. My stance on rep has always been that it holds little water in reality, but since not everyone shares my enlightened view, a lower quality reply is more and more likely these days.
• Rep-bait is closely linked to all the esoteric discussion and inside jokes that go on between a few individuals on the forum. They actually ruin the experience for everyone else. "But Jon," you say. "Those people have lots of rep points." Yes they do, but they're having their own little party on the forums. Do you think everyone knows what a JVN is? Edit: I should note that this isn't a shot at anyone, and that I've probably done this a few times too, before someone takes it the wrong way. Pfft.

Anyway, think about your audience and try to get them to read your whole post. If you do that, you've probably made a quality one.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

FYI:
People who coddle my ego with "JVN" comments are rarely, if ever are rewarded for it.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Just a simple reminder, although a post may be short, there is no reason to say that it isnt a quality post. *sigh* the whole matter of a quality post in its purest form seems rather subjective in my opinion. Naturally theres the ease in being able to tell a post that contributes to the discussion with an idea or a comment that others will find interesting, as outlined in all the replies above, but whats to make one post better than another post if they ask the same thing in different styles? Although none of the posts are actually physically rated aside from reputation, it seems pointless and rather banal to me that we are constantly pushing for quality, but we often point out when a post isnt needed or it may not be saying the most insightful thing in the world. There isnt a need for that in my opinion. Like any internet board, CD has its ups and downs, but it remains as great a tool as ever for communication, but when the chips are down or one is making a quick response to something, there isnt always time to elaborate or put together an essay like topic. There is a lot to be said for brevity too.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

My opinion: Any post that doesnt break any of the Chiefdelphi rules ... :)

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

A quality post, huh, Ken?

My Idea of a Quality Post:

- Kind of like a news article. Something that keeps you interested, and doesn't force you to read to the end of the post to get the main idea. ( <- Don't yell at me for this). I do read to the end of the posts, but I don't think that a quality post is one that makes you read to the end to find the position of the person or the idea that they have. I guess this would be more like a standard 5 paragraph essay form, with a "Thesis Statement" and support, BUT please don't write 5 paragraphs. I promise no lit teachers will subtract points for lack in symbolism in the posts.

- And like it was said before, posts that are relevant to the thread.

- Oh yeah, and non repetitive.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

A quality post is...

• A post which directly answers a posed question accurately
• A post which provides useful new information or insight
• A post which stimulates good discussion
• Thought out and planned
• Well written, with few grammatical or spelling errors

A poor post is...

• A post which offers nothing new
• A post which was not proofread
• A post which is off topic
• A post with incorrect information, or even information that you aren't sure of
• A post which is insulting

These are just a few guidelines. In general if we take some time to think about what we write, and exercise some common sense, we should have no problem making quality posts.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

A quality post is an intelligent post that adds to the thread and is pertanent to the thread. It doesn't nessesarily have to be a long essay post or contain large words or witty wording meant to impress people. A post should not be like that of an English paper containing lots of fluff. I like posts that give me the information needed - sometimes short and to the point. If needed a post should contain the information to back up what the poster is trying to say such as the appropriate math or explanations for technical questions. The occasional humor is appreciated too.
Eric

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

I'd like to add another 'quality' item to the list - those that post something solely without the intention of targeting one, or a group, of individuals. This has happened entirely too many threads and posts during the 2004 season.

I've heard an awful lot about reputation since the whole system started, and it seems that the consensus is that the system is fine. There are a few individuals that still complain - do you think the people with the most reputation are undeserving? Do you assume that since you have lower reputation points, which bring no rewards or prizes, nobody is reading your posts? I am afraid that in both cases, you are sorely mistaken.

I suggest you read this, too.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

I don't think there's anything wrong with posting speculation or an opinion, though it appears other people do, as I've gotten negative reputation for doing just that.

Speculation, though it may, at times, be inaccurate, is the basis for most ideas brought forth from ChiefDelphi. Everything starts with an idea, an uncertainty, a "What if...". If we have potentially useful, but not verified information, why not share it? Good things can certainly come of this, be it the poster being proved wrong, resulting in him or her learning a lesson, or the speculation being proven right, offering a solution to the problem or whatever the situation may be. I see no harm in offering your share of knowledge.

Posts, in my mind, should be:

• Concise and focused enough such as not to be rambling
• On-topic enough such as not to be on a tangent (though short tangents for humor or related purposes are OK, as long as they do not grow out of hand, at which point a moderator should step in)
• Not repetetive, unless that repetition serves to reinforce an uncertainty
• Clear in both spelling, coherency, and format

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

I really read through these and laughed....

btw this is probobly a perfect example of a poor post
or is it
I am making a point
I am providing clear and accurate information
and i am presenting it in a manor that (hopfully) doesnt offend or upset anyone

i dont know what makes a quality post, quality but i know that things like one word replies that involve just agreeing with someone, w/o adding to the conversation are examples of poor posts

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Personally, I think it is good when someone makes a post (especially if the thread is someone asking for help about something, or asking a question such as this one) by bringing a different view-point in... although not always helpful, it can sometimes allow the thread-starter to get kick-started into finding the solution if people just giving simple answers aren't enough. Whether it be in the form of reading material that could help, or by going far over-and-beyond what the question is to help the person not only find the answer they're looking for... but also understand why that is the answer and/or how it works.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

It's an uncertain and opinionated question, therefore illiciting uncertain and opinionated responses. Repetition is bad, in forms of certainty, as I attempted (albeit poorly, as the case may be) in my first post. In certain situations, however, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

What is a "Quality" post?
 

This is.

:D

MrToast

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

In my opinion, a "quality" post is most of what has been said (non-repetitive, few or no errors, no incorrect info, etc.). In every post, though, you should ask yourself one question: is this post contributing to the discussion? If the answer is no, then don't post. I use it as my benchmark for every post, both when making my own posts, and reading others' posts. If you can honestly say that your post is contributing something new and valuable to the discussion, you can't go wrong.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

I honestly dont see the differnece in the "okayness" of repetition in this thread or in a thread discussing Gear ratios or wiring methods, or anything else for that matter.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

What do you mean by targeting someone/some group? As in answering a question for someone, commenting on something someone said? Maybe give me an example of a post of mine that doesn't and/or does do that.

P.S. This is not a worthless post. I think.

--EDIT--
Oh, yeah, I have no none-repetitious opinions on post quality. However, I do get what Aignam means by this being an opinion thread and repetition being more understandable. It's like a poll; you don't look at the results, see that the one you'd vote for has already got a vote, and then don't vote.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Er, it is fine. If you think I'm complaining about it, you're reading into my comments too much (and incorrectly).

Also possibly a poor supposition, but you are partially correct; while the rep point system rewards the deserving, it also rewards the undeserving in a select few cases. Anyway, this is the point I was trying to make - the abuse of the system. I said in my previous post that I didn't take the system too seriously, so long as it didn't start to affect the quality of posts, though you appear to be ignoring that comment, instead suggesting quite the opposite. I presented an idea that rep-bait could potentially lower the overall quality of posts in very specific cases, and while I'm not going to point fingers, let me say that there's a huge case of this going on in certain parts of the Chit-Chat Forum. My point was that other people took stock in rep points too much, and that while I don't, it does result in prejudging, and thus not reading posts. Edit: remember that my original thesis was that you've made a quality post if people want to read it. I probably have enough green dots for this to not be a problem, but others aren't so lucky.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

A good post either:

Asks a question to help a team / team member

Tells about a specific event (with accurate information)

Answers the question asked, in an accurate, factual manner

Causes the readers to think about something new and challenging

Or acknowledges a person or team for something extraordinary

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

i have to say after reading Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values, and questioning on the word "quality"-- it well, i have no idea really what quality means at times, but it's what u interpret it as and the same thing here with posting-- you have to def. though keep it a reasonable size and def. too stick with the rules of cd-- without the rules it gets too messy

enjoy writing all the great quality posts!

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Flashback: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...t+source+bu y

I really appreciate not only that post, but all of the posts referenced there.

There are some technical threads that read as chatty conversations -- a million short posts adding snippets of information or incite here and there as the thread grows. There are other threads that spontaneously develop into a short series of well spoken people writing full treatises on the subject at hand, covering all the bases and presenting their argument in full and at one. A couple of fantastic drive train conversations from last summer come to mind as examples of the latter. I think there is a place for both, and whichever personal preference is at least part of the friction over "quality posts." I submit, however, that the biggest element of quality in my mind is a posts utility for people in the future. There are some threads out there that will still be pertinent and oft-referenced years from now, and there are others that won't make any sense when you wake up tomorrow morning.

As an example: try to do a search on this board to figure out what the internal gear ratios are for high and low gear on the Bosch drill. There are a million posts to sift through in identical conversations with uninformative titles and one line posts disseminating only one precious statistic at a time. When someone asks for the specs on a drill motor, a million people chime in with one number representing only their best recollection of its free rpm.

Support your Local Wiki.

Re: What is a "Quality" post?
 

Most of what I believe makes a good post has already been addressed in this thread so I am going to skip the bullet points on that end no matter how much joy they bring.

However I think there are more sides to the "why" we need good quality posts. Obviously bad posts can be very annoying but also we are eating up Chiefdelphi resources. "Bad posts" should not be present on Chiefdelphi in the same way that we should not have "bad logins." I think this is an issue that goes hand in hand with bad posts and one that has not been addressed yet as much. When I check the main page at this very moment I see 141 users on the board. 16 of them are spiders so there isn't much we can do about that. However the rest break down to be

1 - Announcements
16 - General Forum
1 - Rumor Mill
2 - Career
16 - Robot Showcase
5 - Technical Discussion
4 - Programming
1 - Control System
1 - Pneumatics
4 - IT
1 - Championship
1 - Regional
1 - Off Season
6 - FIRST Related Organizations
9 - Chit-Chat
1 - Televised Robotics
1 - FIRST in the news

That...unless my math is terrible...is 71 users. It is not very likely that 53 users decided to move to a new forum exactly as I hit my refresh button.

Considering the new announcement about having to limit access to the board to 300 users I think we should all start making an effort to sign off and leave the site alone when we wander away. 1/3rd of the people here wasting resources is too much. That isn't counting people who have just left Chiefdelphi running in a specific forum while running off to eat dinner. I really do not believe that a faster time before accounts are automatically logged off is the answer, especially in a league centered around Gracious Professionalism. I just think that when we are talking about using Chiefdelphi resources in a non-constructive manner we should consider all ways me might error and work to correct them all.