Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

Well, we've heard some arguements as to why it would make sense for Segways to be prohibited from sidewalks, but is just seems to be "No you're wrong" and "Your logic is faulty" from the other side of the arguement. I'm curious as to why exactly you think Segways are so different from other vehicles and objects that are prohibited on the sidewalks. Do they not hurt as much when they hit you at cruising speed, or when they ride over your foot? I know this is bad for Segway sales, and if you have a Segway it really limits what you can do with it, but I dont think the sidewalk is the place for them. The street isnt either, but is there a better place for them in the best intrest of the whole public, and not just the few who have segways?

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

Mike,


You make mention of people using the "sidewalk" key. Really? i never was instructed that i had a sidewalk key, i go the speed of traffic, even if i am on my "too fast for sidewalks" key. People who own high-end sports cars have the capability of going 150mph on the highway. Do they? Nope. In a group of pedestrians, you slow down to match their speed. If you get a chance to pass, you cruise on by. Courtesy is the key.

you make mention of devices in this list such as ATVs, Go-Karts, and Motorcycles - in this instance, i completely agree with you, they have no place on sidewalks. They are large, noisy, have poor performance in tight areas along with many other downfalls. Keep these devices off the sidewalks.

The mopeds and motor scooters have the potential of going 25+ mph, these devices belong on the roads. The performance of these vehicles is such that you CAN go 5 mph on them, which would fit in with traffic. In the event of a sudden stop, i can gurantee you the segway can stop faster than any of these devices, as well as being able to turn in place.

In fact, say i were a jogger, jogging along at 6-7 mph, a fairly normal jogging pace- by no means a sprint. A pedestrian steps out of a store a few feet in front me, not enough stopping time and i collide. So? just like the segway i woud bounce off the pedestrian with no harm done. In fact, if i were on the segway the collision probably would not have happened, as the stopping distances are much shorter.

Lets outlaw people from running on our sidewalks. In fact, anyone that walks faster than the old lady on the corner has to use the street also. I can't remember the last time i saw a sidewalk here in Worcester that was so clogged a segway wouldn't fit.. Same case with the many times I've been in Boston. Segways have their place. Don't think everyone arbitrarily zips around at 12mph just cause it is the max speed.

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

I've had numerous Segways intentionally run over my foot to prove this very point. You barely feel a thing. It feels no different than the average pedestrian stepping on your foot pressure-wise, and since it's a rolling wheel, it's over rather quickly. If you're wearing shoes, you will barely feel it at all.

As for collisions, I've had many Segway owners demonstrate this for me as well. Think for a moment how the seg operates- how it moves. You lean forward, it moves forward. You lean back, it moves back. Think about what happens in a collision. The seg is moving forward, so it's obviously leaning forward. If something gets in it's path (pedestrian, wall, whatever), the contact will push the Segway back, thus slowing it's speed considerably and rapidly, forcing the Segway to move backward and away. The response is so quick, the damage is really very minimal. Anyone who's been on a Segway for long enough to really play with it's start/stop ability and notice the immediate response knows how safe these things really are. Inertia really isn't too much of an issue, as the seg is always in control of it's motion at all times (when used properly)- it's a requirement to keep itself perfectly balanced. They can literally stop on a dime by shifting your weight back. By crashing into something, the same force is exerted on the Segway as would be if you are leaning back, and since the response is virtually instantaneous, not much at all happens.

With a bike or a scooter, balance is obtained by it's speed and rotational force. Motion keeps it balanced. It's very difficult to stop suddenly on a bike- it's hard to dissipate the kinetic energy rapidly. If a bike drives into someone, that person will invariably get injured somehow. There is no control of the motion other than brakes, which are based on friction of pads against the rims, and the response of the human to operate them. A bike would need a few feet to stop suddenly, and something (the pedestrian, or the rider) would have to absorb the energy used to balance before coming to a stop.

Compare that to the Segway, which has no brakes, nor any need for brakes, simply because of the way it's designed and operated. It balances under it's own powered motors and gyroscopes- not because of rotational energy. It is always in control of it's own motion, and stops when any force opposite it's motion is applied. There is no need to absorb kinetic energy, as there is no excess of it required to keep it moving or balanced. As such, any damage resulting from a direct impact would be very minimal, if anything at all.

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

From the Segway FAQ :
The Sidewalk Key (maximum speed of 8 mph and a medium turning rate), allows riders to adapt well in pedestrian environments.


I don't think anyone would set legislation about the speed of walking or running. However, you can use legislation against the Segway.

You have a legitimate argument here, sort of. I wouldn't want a runner coming at me at full sprint either. I could end up seriusly injured if a jogger was running and maybe I was running and we collided. The trouble is, I don't think you could find a politician who would sponsor a bill that would block people from running down a public road.

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

My analogy to the legislation about walking/running was showing the lack-of-knowledge the people making these laws have about how the segway operates. You're more likely to get injured by a jogger than you are a segway.

As for the sidewalk key, i only use the red key. In fact, i am more dangerous on the yellow or "sidewalk" key, since the turning rate is slower than the red key that i am used to.

Tom

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

It's become obvious to me that certain people have become too attached to their segways. This is a dangerous condition that must be mitigated immediately. You're in luck, however, as I will help you break this addiction.

Amanda Morrison, Tom Schindler, Matt K, and Stu Bloom, please PM me for details on my revolutionary program, which will make you less dependent on your Segway, FOR FREE! It involves shipping me your segway and a 12 step program.


:)

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

I have been asked to post the facts...

The facts are that someone needs to prove to me why the Segway is not unsafe for pedestrians. Why it should not be classified differently from a Honda motor scooter and why it should be given EPAMD status (Electric Personal Assistive Mobility Device).

You might think why bother? "Mike doesn't get it and he's an ignorant fool."

It looks like there's a lot of politicians in Massachusetts who don't get it either. Or maybe, they are legislating the minority for the safety of the majority. Either way, you need to convince someone why you should be able to ride your Segway in Massachusetts and many other states in the United States.

To put out a bad analogy- regular citizens aren't allowed to own automatic weapons. It might be easier to take down a buffalo with an automatic, that's a benefit. However, for the safety of the majority of Americans, politicians have chosen to make them illegal.

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

Mike,

Check out Marc's post above...

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...1&postcount=33

It pretty clearly answers your question.

Tom

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

A very generous offer Joe, but I would not want to be identified as the one who indoctrinated you into our Segway 'cult' ;)

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

At least I am in good company. :D

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

Thanks Matt ... I'm blushing :o

More ammunition on the way tomorrow ...

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

I know it has been already said that segways don't hurt as much, but I can speak from experience. I have been hit by a segway going full speed, a bike going at about the same speed, and by an idiot sprinting to catch a bus (I've also been hit by a car, but that has nothing to do with the current conversation).

The sprinter was looking at his bus pulling awayand I knocked skulls, and he elbowed me in the ribs. I was knocked into the street, had the wind knocked out of me, and could've been run over if there was more traffic.

The biker and I came around a corner from opposite directions, and he hit his brakes as soon as he saw me. He skidded out of control, knocked me down, and ended up landing on top of me. I ended up with a skinned elbow and a gash on my leg from one of his sprockets.

The segway was being driven by a friend of my parents, who was showing off and didn't see me coming. I did get a significant shove, but that was it. I wasn't knocked over, wasn't at all hurt, and didn't even have a bruise from where his handle bars hit my arm. Afterwards, he intentionally ran over my foot to demonstrate how painless it is, and, as advertised, I barely felt it.

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

I’ll try to summarize what he said…
- When a Segway rolls over a person’s foot it doesn’t hurt that bad.
- The Segway differs from other two wheeled devices because balance does not rely on the rotational force of the wheel.
- The Segway is different from a normal impact because once impact is made the Segway will be pushed back and will decelerate rapidly.


Let’s create a scenario with two people Jane a pedestrian and John a Segway rider. Jane is a cute petite 120 pound blonde; John is a 167 pound stallion. John has the rugged i Series Segway which weighs 83 pounds.
John is driving his Segway around Boston’s north-end taking in the city. Jane is busily getting ready for work in her studio apartment. John realizes that if he doesn’t make it to the T in 3 minutes he won’t make it on the last commuter rail train of the night. Therefore, he’s whipping around the city at 12.5 MPH trying to get to the T station. Jane’s running a little late for work and bursts out the door of her apartment building and gets side swiped by John who was traveling at full throttle down the sidewalk. What happens in the collision?

I think there will be a major collision. Jane will be thrown to the ground and may need to visit the emergency room for a broken bone. John will probably be thrown from his Segway as well.

My reasoning is simple; it takes 18.6 feet for a Segway to stop when moving at 12.5 MPH [1], or an average deceleration of 4.2 ft/s. Therefore, there is absolutely no way that the 250 pound mass will cause Jane to experience a slight push, or anything that one would consider casual contact. There will be a violent collision.

[1] http://www.humantransport.org/bicycl...way/Segway.htm

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

I like how you included several newtonian physics "buzzwords" in your post, almost as though you would use actual physics to back up your argument.

Then kinda trailed off and didn't provide the relevant calculation.
Interesting tactic.


I'm blonde, but not cute, or petite. I don't weigh 120 lbs.
I worked around segways all summer (5 in the office). I've never been hurt in a segway related collision, despite being involved in several.
*shrug*

My name is John too... I don't think I'm a stallion though.

Re: segway license, turn signals, and no sidewalks?
 

unfortunatly, i don't think that college students are going to be the only ones to ever get rundown by segways...
but, a question for those of you who have been hit by segways: while they weren't able to topple you, do you think they could knock over a child? how about an elderly person?