Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Alright, this question came up in another thread, and I figured it was a fair question.

Should the requirements for the office of President of the United States be changed to allow foreign-born citizens to be elected?

(For the purposes of the poll question, we'll assume the other requirements (being 35 and living in the US for the past 14 years) remain the same.)

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Keep it the same.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

As soon as I said in the other thread that this is an issue that I'll discuss at another time, in another thread, I was waiting how long it would take for it to show up.

What exactly does the natural born citizen definition consist of?

With so many nuances, natural born citizenship to me seems like such a technicality. In my opinion, where you were born is as arbitrary as your skin color or gender. Besides Native Americans, don't we all really come from lineage that is of immigrants. Our nation's motto is "E Pluribus Unum," which means out of one, many. I think if we want to fully embrace this, then it's time for change.

What is to say that I'm more equipped to lead our country than my parents who moved here when they were teenagers? Imagine if Bill Clinton (if you're a dem) or Ronald Reagan (if you're a republican) were born "at the wrong place at the wrong time." You'd have great leaders who would have never gotten the chance to be President. I believe that if you do indeed become a citizen, and we'll throw in a residency requirement (to prevent another nation from throwing in a candidate into our election in an attempt to usurp our sovereignty, which is probably one of the main fears and why this requirement came to be originally), it should be up to the people to decide in an election if that person is fit for the job.

I think it's almost important to remember that this should be an issue based on principle, not which politician or political party this might benefit. I come from California and I don't care much for Governor Schwarzenegger. That's not enough reason however for him not to be able to run for President. I say let the man run and I'll not vote for him based on his economic & educational policies, not the fact that he was born in Austria.

As Joan Allen said in the movie "The Contender": Principles only mean something if you stick by them when they're inconvenient.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Like i said in the other thread keep it the same, its not worth the ratification of the constitution

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

The constitution has already been ratified. The Amendment needs to be passed by a 2/3’s majority in congress, and then ratified by 3/4’s of the states. It shouldn’t be about whether or not you think it’s easy or not, it’s about whether or not you think the effect of the change would be a positive step for our country.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

More important than political experience, a president should have experience as a citizen of the country he is goign to govern. Perhaps, the requirement should be changed to certain number of years as a citizen in the US (or perhaps even better, as a voting-aged citizen in the US), but I definitley think some requirement should be made that a president knows what being a citizen in the US is like.

In reality, though, I don't think this requirement is neccesary at all. I really doubt an immigrant who came to the country after entering adulthood, would be elected.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

I agree with what Ryan said... i was about to post the same thing... :)

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Actually, this discussion was spawned after discussion of Arnold Swarchzenneger running for president if this could be changed. I wouldn't doubt the possibility of a campaign for Arnold, whether I like it or not.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Honestly, what's the big deal?

Sure, it's nice to say that anyone who leads America was born here, it's a psychological thing, it's one more thing in common between us and the president. That being said, it'd be fairly hard for anyone who wasn't a white, Christian, naturalized American to be elected into office in any case, but even so, what's the big deal? Due to the way most Americans will vote, I don't think this is even an issue, and neither will it be an issue for some time to come.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

But still, better to cross the bridge now than when we get to it and it becomes a problem.

Even if there's no chance that a law change will have any effect on the presidential elections for some time to come, shouldn't America always be striving to promote equal opportunity?

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

The problem isn't so much about eligibility as it is not electing a person who can't run the country if their life depended on it. It's unfortunate that Bush hasn't had more attempts on his life yet. Actually, to tell ya the truth, they are just covering them up. Just like they did 9/11. Sure, most of it was true, I guess. But a Boeing 747 DID NOT fly into the Pentagon. No wreckage, intact windows at the "crash site", concentric circular holes (planes don't do that!!), and there is no way it could be 2 feet off the ground right before it hit, when it would have just had to clear I-395. And of course this is hard to prove because the FBI confiscated all of the video from the surrounding gas stations and other places.

You got a rant, whether you wanted it or not!!

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

I beleive the reason no one has changed it yet is because it is trying to keep "americans" in office to preserve "culture." I find this ironic seeing the only american traditions are those of native americans, the rest was imported. So if we continue with that tradition of imported cultures, shouldn't we let imported people run for president? Arn't they showing the truth about our culture?

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Wasn't Dukakis the only nominee closest to breaking the mold of a typical president?
Why is it that whenever we try and have a discussion on this somone tries to make it horribly off topic or tries to inject a conspiracy theory.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

WHAT IN THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?!?!?! When somebody says "It's unfortunate that Bush hasn't had more attempts on his life yet." about ANYBODY and especially the President of the United States, they should be shamed. You are ridiculous, get a life. :mad:

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

David Kelly and I agree on something.

An attempt on a life, no matter who you are directing it to, is immensely serious and not the appropriate topic for a mild rant here or elsewhere. While everyone has their opinion, I don't think this is the place to take a dislike for one particular candidate to that level.

No intention of starting a fighting match over this suggestion...

I don't think this thread is going anywhere. And it's just going to be another shouting match, and I've been in enough of them recently to realize how stupid they are. Can we lock or at least moderate this thread before it really starts becoming an issue?

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

I agree with you Eugenia.
Making light of the assasination of ANY person is completely innapropriate.
As I have read more and more of these types of threads, the more I realize how useless they become. Somehow, a lot people are under the impression that they can change another person in an instant. By arguing on a thread like this, you are not going to be able to change the opinion of someone just as stubborn as you are, especially if it is done in an argumentative manner. People will be LESS open to another's opinions if they are negative in tone or are directly attacking them on an issue. While I think intelligent discussion of a topic is useful, this type of discourse hardly ever occurs in a politically charged thread topic. Conversations often quickly go downhill. I wish that the CD community would take a step back and realize that political topics are just inviting another flame war. The FIRST community does not need this type of division amongst it's members any more. Please close or at least moderate this thread.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

I completely agree with you. It IS important to contribute to society as our generation must be prepared to take leadership in the future. I just hate it when people take things out of control, context, and/or end up hurting people. Sometimes this happens on CD, and I just want people to chill out and think carefully before they take things in the wrong direction.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Soooo what about those requirements to be president - should they be changed?

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

A good point. However, the problem with doing it in this thread is that many people see political thread and go BLEH. I personally think that Political threads should have their own category in chitchat. A lot of things that are said on these threads do spur constructive criticism, so where shall we start?

I don't think people will ever stop being cruel on political threads, but you're right constructive criticism is important. *shrug* I learn things in political threads from people who know what they're talking about or ask questions to learn.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Alright, I guess it's time for me to weigh in on the question. (well, and steer it back onto topic, but still...)

Personally, I think the natural-born requirement should be tossed (all other things being equal). I get the feeling that if you're a US citizen and have lived here for 14 years, you've learned enough about this country to have a crack at the office. Besides, if people are scared about it, they have a solution--don't vote for 'em!

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

I just wanted to apologize for Blue Orion's Comments on behalf of Team 341. These comments were insensitive and way off base. I am personally embarassed and so are the many team members that emailed me to tell me about this post.

Yes, this is a free country, but with freedom comes the burden of acting responsibly and with dignity. Unfortunately this did not happen with this post.

I also wanted to thank the Delphi online community for not turning this into a bashing session. You certainly have conducted yourself with dignity in this matter.

Unfortunately this posting will be a major topic of our next team meeting.

Please accept my apology and that of our students.

Thank You!

Al Ostrow
Team Leader

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

I personally don't think there is a reason to change this rule and don't think it should be changed. This president regardless of what we like, represents the US to the world. I don't want a president that is holding any special foreign allegiances. Also I think there are far more serious and more important issues to worry about than if a foreign born citizen can run for president. Barring a campaign from Arnold this isn't even an issue. Making it one is absurd. I would way rather put effort into issues such as helping the economy, affordable health care, fighting poverty, national security, peaceful solutions for the world, and other issues that are hard issues that make a difference. People really like to get onto minuscule laws and regulations and forget to look at the really big picture. I say, who cares.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

You're absolutely correct. A Boeing 747 did not fly into the Pentagon, as no Boeing 747 aircraft were hijacked on September 11, 2001. The aircraft that was flown into the Pentagon was a Boeing 757 (this one, in fact). American Airlines hasn't operated any Boeing 747 aircraft in more than ten years. Now, did you want to share more of your expert crash site analysis with us?

Anyway, I'm not sure how I feel about the qualifications for President being changed. I believe that the circumstances for which they were written are no longer plausible and that there are just as many dangers in putting the wrong American into office today as there might've been in allowing a foreigner into office two hundred years ago and that suggests that the existing qualifications are no longer relevant.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

On topic now, that's why amending formulae for constitutions are in practice pretty silly; you need an overwhelming number of people that care (as opposed to an overwhelming number of people who agree) in order to change them. In Canada, we're lucky that most relevant non-procedural constitutional law was drafted in 1982; our values haven't 'progressed' enough to warrant a public outcry. Americans aren't so lucky.

In the case of this law, by the time it becames relevant (assuming it hasn't been already), it's too late for our poor presidential hopeful. Now that there's (albeit unfounded) buzz about the Governator running, the Right as a whole is starting to consider the prospect of this law's revision, alongside an already large portion of leftists.

Nowadays we can see the stupidity and plain discrimination of a law that says people not born in the States can't lead it, but back when democracy as we know it was in its infancy, this was perfectly alright. Let me just say one more thing: I hope nobody who thinks a "small step" forward that takes a lot of effort isn't worth it, ever leads my country.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Actually, the national motto translates as "From many, one." The distinction is rather important to the meaning of the phrase.

-dave

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

You've got to look for a good return for your effort, or in this case a good return for what we pay our congress men and women for. That is for me to improve the quality of life for the citizens of the us, to take an active and peaceful presence in the world, and the create fair laws as solutions to problems. I don't see changing a two hundred year rule which has to my knowledge not be challenged for the last 150 years(just a guess) by constitutional admendment is not a good return for my tax dollars.

There is many things foreign born nationals can do in this country. They can become governors, senators, supreme court justices, and any other political office. I think it is fair to reserve our top office for natural born citizens, which covers a very large population of people.

I guess I'll never be the president of Canada because I think effort should be proportional to results. And changing this law would be a "small step" but not particularly forward, or backward, more like a "small step" nowhere. I think thinking about changing this law comes somewhere after thinking about a healthcare and prescription drug plan.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Perhaps you don't understand the significance (or lack thereof) of it being 200 years old. A constitutional law is a constitutional law and has supreme legal standing. What possible relevance to this does the fact that it hasn't been challenged have? The bottom line after all should be: is it just or unjust?

Here's a three-step plan to figure out where you stand:
1) do you believe immigrants should be afforded the same rights and freedoms to those who were born in the United States?
2) do you believe those who can run for mayor or governor should be allowed to run for president?
3) do you believe a president shouldn't necessarily have to be US-born?

I see this rather black and white: If you disagree with either of the first two, your disagreement with the third makes sense (which I believe might be where ngreen is coming from). If you disagree with only the third, you've made an error in logic. I happen to agree with all three.

That argument of yours with respect to expenditure is almost fair, but do you know for a fact how many tax dollars it would take? Would you be of the same opinion if you, or someone you knew were born in Canada, and at age three decided that being President of Canada wasn't good enough and moved to the States? What if this person, having grown up in US schools and voted in US elections, decided he or she wanted to be President of the United States?

That's my thinking.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

I would like to ask a question of those who seem to be a bit more knowledgable about this subject.

What would this change do socially really? For example, many people have cited that the more important concerns are those of healthcare and education and national wellbeing. However, socially, how would our country actaully react to a foreign president running?

And most interestingly, what comes first? A woman in presidential office, or a not-naturally born citizen?

Not meant as a criticism, I just think that socially this would have an intense impact. Many individuals currently hold prejudices towards individuals from various countries, how could this possibly change the policies if they were put in place?

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Ok, I didn't get a chance to thoroughly read this thread through and I see it started about asking if a non U.S. born citizen should be allowed to become president but I like Genia's point of what about a woman holding office. At this day and age I don't see why the Constitution can't be ratified to allow a woman to become president. Woman have made many social advances in this country in the past 50+ years and this is one hurdle they can't conquer because of the current stipulations of our Constitution. We can have woman governors and supreme court justices but why not president? What ever happened to "equal rights"?
Now as for a non U.S. citizen, I don't see why after so many years of living here they couldn't be allowed to run. Think about this, of all the people in the U.S. didn't thier distant relatives, and some not so distant relatives, come to the U.S. from other countries. I don't see why others shouldn't be allowed to represent this country since it's a country of many different backgrounds to begin with.

My .02



Now I think I'll vote Genia for president! ;)

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

Women ARE allowed to run (assuming they're natural-born, 35, and have lived in the country for 14 years--sorry Genia). It's just that neither of the major parties have staged a major campaign with a female candidate.

Re: Should the requirements for President be changed?
 

I feel horrible as a person, a team member, and as a citizen. I have taken my rights for granted and I let my feelings at the moment get way out of hand. I don't take these things lightly myself and I'm really looking at myself, hard as a person. I apologize to everyone, including my team, the coaches, everyone on CD, everyone involved in 9/11 and everyone else. It may not have seemed like it, but I do have respect for our country and 9/11 and the President. I just got sucked in by everything and let it get the better of me. I don't expect people to forget this, I know I won't. I just don't want this to hurt my team or the way things are done on CD.