Chief Delphi - Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- Kit & Additional Hardware (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=55)

- - Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30449)

Cory	25-09-2004 16:43

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Boucher

At nationals, we picked team 386 as one of our alliance partners. Their coach wore a hat that had a mini video camera that was zip tided to it. This was used to show their coaches point of view so he would not get in trouble if he made a good call from his point of view, but from the stands looked like a bad call. To get back to the topic, they were able to view this camera form a TV in the stands and recorded it with an attached VCR. They said that FIRST had completely cleared it for that use and it was on a frequency that FIRST did not use. So I think that there is no conflict at all with being able to view or not view the feed from a video camera no matter where it is located.

My point was that you cannot be viewing the feed from the camera in the driver's stations, since your drivers would have an unfair advantage.

Ted Boucher

25-09-2004 17:02

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory

My point was that you cannot be viewing the feed from the camera in the driver's stations, since your drivers would have an unfair advantage.

Is there anything in the rulebook about not being allowed to view a video camera from a screen inside your player station, if there is please tell me. A video camera in this situation is like using a sensor on your robot. Both will give you the same advantage in the end.

Adam Y.

25-09-2004 17:10

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Please post information you know about this sensor's legality, not about the legality of using videocameras on FIRST robots.

Ooo It's not legal. Why would you even ask that question when someone answered before you posted it?

Quote:

I think this camera is not intended to be used in a "real life" situation, it just seems impossible that it could pack that much versatility and power. Tracking a single color blob just won't cut it.

Im not sure someone is attempting to use the CMU sensor to track objects for a competition that takes place in a park. If he can get the sensor to work in the outdoors then it would work during a First competition.

Robot Dude 0101

25-09-2004 17:33

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Does anyone know where to find coding examples for the CMU cam? I have seen some at this site, but I was unable to find more.

Jaine Perotti

25-09-2004 17:49

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101

Does anyone know where to find coding examples for the CMU cam? I have seen some at this site, but I was unable to find more.

I was able to find this example, but it is written in PBasic, I think. It also has a video of the the robot with this program in it. It isn't terribly exciting, but hopefully it is helpful.

Here is another resource, which I think has examples for Cerebellum and Handyboard processors. I didn't look at all of the examples though, so I hope that all of this is useful.

Good luck!!

<edit> I just found more examples!! 1,2,3,4,5. All written in PBasic for the BS2. </edit>
<edit2>Another one! my advice: Google it. </edit2>
<edit3> here is the user manual for the CMUcam2, the newest version. This will probably help you understand the code better. </edit3>

Robot Dude 0101

25-09-2004 19:32

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Thanks for giving me those links. You are helping me a lot!

Tytus Gerrish

29-09-2004 22:04

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robot Dude 0101

Im new to FIRST

Just wondering leonas, What team are you on?

Tytus Gerrish

29-09-2004 22:21

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

ok i just found you're email on our email blast list Leonas, You're deffenatly one of us. The Force is strong with this one. You seem like a Briliant kid Im glad to have you with us.

Rickertsen2

29-09-2004 23:48

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningQuestion

From the 2004 rules: (these may change for 2005, but probably won't)

If the CMU cam costs under $100, and this doesn't raise your additional electronics cost over $300, and you can buy the part from the above companies...then it looks like you are ok. Try using the flowchart mentioned above to determine if the part is legal. (again, this is by 2004 standards...this MAY be subject to change)
(a little off topic) I have heard that the CMU cam is quite a challenge to program. It has incredible capabilities. Do you know how to program it or have any resources for learning how?? If so, I think it would be a great thread topic to share your knowledge of this sensor. Please tell us!!! (even if we can't use it for FIRST Robotics)
[edit] I just found the website for the CMU cam if any of you are wondering what it is. [/edit]

According to the 2004 flowchart it is legal. According to the rules cited earlier, it is not.

Joe Ross

30-09-2004 09:19

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rickertsen2

According to the 2004 flowchart it is legal. According to the rules cited earlier, it is not.

In three seperate cases, the flow chart refers you to the robot section of the manual. The rules posted are in the robot section, and are what disallows its use. The flowchart isn't inconsistant with the rules, it just refers you to them to cover all posibilites (probably so the flowchart doesn't end up taking 10 pages).

Cory	30-09-2004 11:28

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Boucher

To be honest, I don't have the rulebook memorized anymore, and I'm too lazy to look it up.

There have been questions in the Q&A system before, such as "Can we use headphones to keep in contact with team members up in the stands?" The answer was no, because you were getting an unfair advantage in that they could see all the developing action that is tough to see from the driver station.

Another question was "Can drivers stand on a stool to have a better view of the field?" the answer here was also no.

Keeping in line with those answers, I'd be willing to bet that if you asked if you could have a screen in the driver's station showing the feed from the camera on your robot, the answer is no, for all the reasons I listed above.

Cory

Robot Dude 0101

02-10-2004 21:14

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cory

The CMUcam isn't a camera that is used to transmit video but rather it gives a digital output so a microcontroller can process the data. It would require a lot of programming to accomplish very little with the CMUcam but it is not a video camera that can wirelessly transmit video like most people here think.

NoodleKnight

08-10-2004 02:30

Re: Is there a restriction to what sensors we can use?

I use one of the recent versions of the CMU cam on my personal robot. It be one huge challenge to hook up the CMU camera to the RC. The CMU Camera can wirelessly transmit video, I've gotten it to happen once on my robot, but since I got one of their wierd versions, it didnt work, all because the graphics processor was too fast for the camera or something? Basically the thing captured at 12fps and could grab a lot of fuzzy frames.

Even if you did get it hooked up to interpret data or feed live video:
1. It'd be a hard task.
2. The camera consumes a lot of the small resources that are already given. I use acronames GP Board and Moto Board, and when I try to capture frames the robot has laggy response. But then again, I'm not too sure how fast the RC or OI are...

ahanktcd

11-01-2005 22:43

Re: Cameras At Competition

I owned the video stuff Team386 used to do this. If anyone is interested in doing this, here are the links to the products. You can build this system for under $100 and end up with a 4" color TV!
You must get this checked out by a field person before you can use it though. In Atlanta '04 they checked it with an RF meter and said it was fine, as long as the driver doesn't view it.

TV: http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=PCM-4
Camera: http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=203C-50MW-N
P.S. This site has some other neat stuff you may want to browse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted Boucher

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