Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Kelly This is an attitude that shows up frequently that really bothers me. If a team can raise lots of money, they have the right to spend it any way they want. Some teams use their excess money to generously help other teams. While other teams use this to benefit their own students. Both options are very noble in my opinion. I for one hope many North American teams take the journey to Israel. It would be an inspirational trip for all, and it would help strengthen FIRST worldwide. That seems like a more than worthwhile expense to me.

I should have expected a response like this... I'd like to remind you of several facts.

• David Kelly, this was not intended as a "cheap shot" at you at all. I'm not even really sure how it could be a shot at you.
• This was purely my opnion and I'm not sure why my opinion should make you so angry. I am far from any position of power, outside my team, in the FIRST community.
• In almost any case I can imagine a team absolutely cannot spend it's money however it wishes. Though most teams probably get funding without signing any contract or having any official statement explaining how the money is spent as would be done in a large non-profit organization, teams either imply, or even state verbally the intended use of the money. Unless someone can explain how students will get a better experience that is worth paying probably 2-3 times the normal cost to go to a regional, then I don't agree, it is ethical to use other people's money to go to Israel.

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

What?!?

First, DK did not say it was a cheap shot at him, it was at the teams who you aimed it at. They are fourtunate enough to have amazing sponsorship, they obviously have earned it our a sponsor(s) would not be pouring thousands of dollars into them. They have no responsibility to give this money out to any other teams.

Second, most teams that get large amounts of money from big sponsors are required to spend it how the sponsor wants, either on travel, registration fees, parts, labor or other things like that and have to show this to the company. Also companies that provide a large amount of funding to teams usually also provide mentors and the money comes through the company directly, so it is monitored. I doubt a team just gets handed a briefcase full of money and is not bothered about it any longer. And even if it isn't monitored that closely, why couldn't a team spend their money how they like, as long as it is FIRST related and not for personal reasons. If a team wants to buy a team vehicle and they have the money for it, go for it. Its the team's money.

And how would traveling halfway across the world into a different culture not be worth the extra money? It is a once in a lifetime experience...

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

Wow. That is really generous of that corporation. It's pretty cool about how FIRST is becoming truely international. When you are sixteen, seventeen, and even older than that traveling halfway across the world is not a a once in a lifetime opportunity. You'd be really fourtunate to get a chance but you have all life to go across the world. Now if you were traveling to Antartica that would be a differnt question.

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

I'll make a quick reply in support of Max. FIRST's stated goal is to reach as many students as possible to inspire them. Presumably to be engineers or scientists or something. So there's two issues here as I see it.

First, effective use of money. Sponsors are allowed to use there money however they want, as are teams. I think Max is just questioning the ethics of using 2-3 times as much money on a small group of students vs. spreading that money around a bit more to inspire more students. If you don't feel like spinning off a second team or funding one that's down on its luck, you could sponsor and mentor FLL teams or BEST teams. So there might be better ways to spend the money in some people's opinion.

Second, yes visiting Israel would be a once in a lifetime experience. I'd even agree that it'd be worth it enough that I'd foot my part of the bill so my team could go there. However, I don't know that life changing cultural experiences are really a part of FIRST. Life changing experiences in engineering and mentoring and such, yes. I don't really see how visiting Israel would encourage many kids to be engineers or scientists, though. Maybe politicians or world leaders so they could help solve the problems in the region, though.

So, I have to agree that teams are mostly allowed to spend money however they'd like. I just think that some ways are more conducive to achieving FIRST's goals:
"FIRST (For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology) is an multinational non-profit organization, that aspires to transform culture, making science, math, engineering, and technology as cool for kids as sports are today."

EDIT: Right on Adam! Where do I sign up for the 2020 Antarctica regional? Won't even need to bring the Freeze-it for the motors.

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

No one was suggesting that these teams were going outside their sponsors wishes. When I said that a team can spend the money any way they wish, it was implied that the sponsor was part of the team. This is way it has been on every team I've been a part, i.e. the sponsors have a deserved, large chunk of influence on major team decisions.

I'm glad that you're fortunate enough to know that these opportunities will always exist for you. Unfortunately this is not the case for many people. Many people spend their entire lives not knowing the beauty and the wonders of Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world, let alone step foot on an airplane. For many people going on a sponsored trip like this when they are young is a once in a lifetime opportunity. This rational has been used by many teams in making travel plans.

I think the best way of summing up my point is, there are various ways FIRST help impact the lives of young people. We all have our opinions on how money could be best spent, but in the end teams are free do to as they please. Teams that work so hard to make a difference in the lives of their students, deserve better than to be slammed for "wasting" money that could be "better" spent.

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

Antartica Regional?

Pfft. FIRST has already broken international boarders, by this time next year, FIRST will have moved to another contienent. So what's the next step? Not another continent, that'd be boring ;-).

That being said, I'm waiting for the Mars Regional. Dave, you listening? :-p

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

When they are young yeah I would agree that it is a once in an lifetime oppurtunity. If you come out of FIRST with the right goals I don't see why it has to be a once in a lifetime oppurtunity (Especially if you become an egineer ). A lot of careers requires a person to travel. Hey you will never have to worry about anything overheating. Just ask Dave how nice it is. Im pretty sure he's been there before. It had to be a Freudian slip.:)http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pi...gle&picid=1937 Nah. The moon would make a far better choice. At least then you would still be able to control the robot with basic radio signals. Of course shipping would be astronomical. This gives me a cool idea for the FIRST competition. Make a five second delay (don't know the real number off top of head) to simulate a robot on the moon.

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

Fair enough, I didn't know that was implied.

I don't think exposure to the wonders of the world and its cultures is really in FIRSTs mission statement. That is the mission statement of many other non-profit organizations that do provide such trips. There are in fact a number that cater specifically to Israel.

I hardly think stating my opinion that it is wasteful is "slamming" anyone.


Oops, I guess I misread that one, but I still don't understand how it was a cheap shot against anyone.

I should have been more clear. I was only suggesting sponsoring a less fortunate team, there are many other possibilites. Help a lego league (or more than one), start another team in the area, enter more robotics competitions, etc.

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

Could the corporation possibly be General Motors? I believe that they meet the qualification of "private, multinational corporation," and there is an an Israeli branch of the company. A bigger clue, though, would be the fact that the regional is listed as the "GM/Technion University Israel Regional" on the FIRST website.

I know that we're not going to get an answer from Dave or from anyone who works for FIRST, but I'd like to see if anyone else here on CD has reached the same conclusion as I have. It seems obvious to me, but that might not be the case for everyone else...

If it turns out that this is the case, I would love to become involved in whatever way possible. It wouldn't be very hard for the American GM teams to mentor the Israeli teams and to offer assistance through the internet. We would be able to help build the team with what we've learned in our short existence, and the experience itself would be more than enough reward for any time and energy that was spent helping the Israeli teams.

Again, this is just speculation on my part. Dave doesn't have his flashing text tags yet, so I'll have to do the best that I can to make it clear that I know nothing.

Here's hoping that we find out which corporation it is soon. I'm very, very curious... :)

(As always, I speak for myself. My opinions are not those of GM or of anyone else on Team 818. I don't want to get anyone in trouble...)

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

Folks, let's try to keep this thread on topic. If someone wishes to discuss sponsorship moneys etc, please start another thread. I was enjoying the topic that this one started with.

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

on a back on topic note i called first yesterday asking what volunteer positions are going to be available at the regional and got a message saying they are still figuring out what they need...i really hope i get to go to this one...


if not for the robotics, just so i can enjoy the best falafel on the planet

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

not to burst anyone's bubble, but as i was perusing the FIRST web site today, i was checking to see who was signed up for MWR and i noticed that the Israeli Regional had been closed with no teams signed up

http://www.usfirst.org/frc/public/FM...s.htm&-findany
check for yourselves, is this just a glitch or is the regional simply not going to happen?

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

I found this moderately strange:

Suddenly the total number of slots seems to have gone from 14 to zero....I hope the regional didn't get cancelled! :confused:

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

Something tells me that FIRST is handling signups for the regional through a different method than North American teams. Or perhaps the fact (if I read Dave's post right) that it's just Israeli teams led FIRST to close off registration to keep from confusing teams over here.

Whatever it is, I'll bet it's administrative.

Re: ISRAEL REGIONAL OFFICAL!!!
 

Speculation: Sounds like the 14 spots are for the 14 Israeli teams and FIRST didn't want any other teams get the idea that they could sign up for it.