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-   -   Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30) (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30532)

Joe Matt 01-10-2004 08:54

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Well, besides my democart bias, the thing is that when your presdient gets the date for 9/11 wrong (9/10 according to him) you start to worry.

Joshua May 01-10-2004 09:24

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Jones
Bush almost never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Kerry rolled his eyes when he realized that, immediately after the 10:1 remark, he contradicted himself by saying we didn’t send enough troops into Iraq.

Kerry said that we did not send enough troops into Iraq to get the job done, but who says he would have gone into Iraq anyways, at least not until we were through with Afghanistan, and Iraq posed a serious threat.

Oh, and I'd just like to point out a history-anecdote for you all. The same exact thing happened after the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, where Austria-Hungary told its citizens that Serbia had sponsored terrorism, (despite all the facts saying otherwise) and used that to invade Serbia. This invasion of Serbia, then, triggered what we call World War I.

And there is a term that Bush continues to use in this debate and in his RNC speech that really, really scares me, and that's "the broader middle east." He's not talking about just Iraq, this could include expansion into Iran and other nations, which would really spell trouble. Not to mention a draft would be needed, and I'd be in said draft.

Back to the point, Kerry won hands down. Bush paused and stuttered, and what someone said earlier about not having good skills in a debate doesn't affect a president's ability to lead. Contrary to that, however, I think it most certainly does, for this shows that he cannot think on his feet without his advisors nearby, and we need a president who can make the right decisions in good enough time to be effective, and Bush just doesn't show that. And whenever Bush asked for an extra 30 seconds of rebuttal, he couldn't think of anything, or just repeated the same old rhetoric, too.

Kerry, however, missed a couple of chances to pin Bush down, so to speak. The most noteworthy of these times was at the last question before closing arguments, where Bush had his 30 second rebuttal. The question concerned nuclear proliferation and North Korea, but Bush switched to talking about Hussein, completely skipping the point of the argument. I think Kerry should have called him on the spot right there, pointing that this shows the narrow-minded personal agenda of Bush.

MikeDubreuil 01-10-2004 09:55

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
I think that Kerry won the debate. I thought many times Bush looked foolish in his answers. Either he couldn't find the correct words or he's made dumb faces. Surface level garbage aside, Bush was not good at attacking Kerry.

Bush persistanly said Kerry changes positions because of politics. However, he never gave a solid example. Something the Kerry campaign should focus on is that Kerry has changed positions. That's not due to politics, that is due to new intelligence. When we went to war with Iraq the intelligence was astonishly incorrect. Of course we want to go to war when the CIA is saying Saddam has biological weopons, weopons of mass destruction, and might start a nuclear program. However, once we realized that intelligence was incorrect Kerry changed how he felt about our invasion of Iraq, everyone did - except right wing nut jobs.

One thing I do agree with is that Kerry alluded to the fact that the Bush campaign is trying to make Americans see the situation in Iraq with rose colored glasses. This website has two great articles written by a soldier and a journalist currently in Iraq which gives you a better idea of the true state of Iraq.

Tytus Gerrish 01-10-2004 10:18

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
ok, i see lots of biast remarks and predisposition in this thead. im going to be as nutral as possible.

Kerry- spoke with determination and did not have to spend much time thinking about what he was going to say

Bush- Had a slight sence of humor witch was nice. though he speaks like he dosent know what hees talking about. Im not saying that he dosen't

Kerry- accused that troops were used to gaurd the oil assets in iraq. when they could have been used in other places where weapons could have been found.

Bush- Didn't defend that by saying that the troops were gauarding the oil so that it would still be there to rebuild Iraq's econmy. Infact I don't think it ever occured to him

kerry- had a Multitude of information to give and it easily flowed out of his mouth

Bush- seemed to have little to actually say , had troubble sayinjg it, and repeated it often

Kerry- made a few remarks that were in fact, not true

Bush- Made a few remarks that were in fact, not true

Kerry- Showed Love For Florida All right

Bush- also showed love for florida but when he did Kerry had already used up all the effectiveness of it

Kerry- Displayed his knoledge of the individual solders problems in iraq and pleded to equipt them with better armor

Bush- nearly completely avoided the subject

on a side note Don't you think its kinda stupid for Assualt weapons to be legal in this country while their trying to make it illegal to buy body armor?

kerry- defended himself with well thought out sentenses

Bush- defended himself with a few facts though he sounded like a child when he's in troubble and wines about his inosence.


kerry- Displayed how he wouls be a good leader

bush- Displayed How he was a good leader



While being as nutral as possible and considdering everything that both said and also realising where they were incorect and where they were correct. John kerry was in my opinion was the victor of the debate

CourtneyB 01-10-2004 10:41

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Although im niether fan, id say that Kerry won the debate, just because hes a better speaker than Bush. I think Kerry was a smart aleck yesturday. Did anyone notice, that they never showed Kerry's facial expressions as bush was talking? But when Kerry was talking theyd have a split screen where theyd show both Kerry and Bush. I think Nadar should be in this debate. He'd kick butt. Bush nor Kerry should win presidency. Its not like theyll ever keep their promises of what they will do if they win. I think its time for the U.S to have a girl president.
-Court-

Jeff Rodriguez 01-10-2004 11:08

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
OK, my first question to everyone is: Did you watch the debate on a network, or did you watch it on C-Span? The C-Span feed never changed camera angles and always showed a split screen of the candidates. I have talked to several people who watched a network broadcast, which switched camera angles. Watching the split screen lets you see the candidates initial reactions to each other.
In the future, please watch the C-Span feed.

What stood out the most to me was the question about Kerry accusing Bush of lying about the WMDs in Iraq. To Kerry's discredit, he didn't use the work 'lye', making his point weaker. He should use strong words on his strong beliefs, which, I think, this is one of. To Bush's discredit, he didn't respond to the question. He responded by saying that Kerry flip-flops. He didn't answer any of the allegations. Big mistake.

Again, the same think happened when asked about preemptive military actions. One of Karry's main points was that Bush didn't use US troops to capture Osama Bin Laden. Instead, he used Afghanis warlords. Again, Bush didn't respond to Kerry. He repeated himself, stating that Saddam was a threat and would have had WMDs. He didn't answer Kerry's allegations. Strike 2.

On the other side, Kerry didn't elaborate much on his plans. This has already been discussed so there's no reason to go into it more. He did plug his website, though, and refer people there to fond more answers.

During the question about homeland security, Bush seemed to be using scare tactics on the American people, stating that the Patriot Act needs to be renewed or else we'll get attacked again. Scare tactics don't sit well with me.

And perhaps the biggest disagreement between the two of the night, North Korea. Kerry wants Bilateral talks, Bush wants six point talks and use China's leverage. It's up to you to decide which plan you think would be best.

Again, please watch the C-Span feeds of debates.

MikeDubreuil 01-10-2004 11:11

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogre
OK, my first question to everyone is: Did you watch the debate on a network, or did you watch it on C-Span? The C-Span feed never changed camera angles and always showed a split screen of the candidates. I have talked to several people who watched a network broadcast, which switched camera angles. Watching the split screen lets you see the candidates initial reactions to each other.
In the future, please watch the C-Span feed.

I watched a network broadcast. I forgot which network; however, they did show split screens. John Kerry was able to use note taking as an effective tool in making him not appear to react to Bush's statement. While Kerry spoke George Bush stood there making faces and drinking out of an empty water cup.

Greg Ross 01-10-2004 11:59

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JosephM
Well, besides my democart bias, the thing is that when your presdient gets the date for 9/11 wrong (9/10 according to him) you start to worry.

His exact words (according to MSNBC's rush transcript) were:
Quote:

That wasn‘t going to work. That‘s kind of a pre-September 10th mentality, the hope that somehow resolutions and failed inspections would make this world a more peaceful place.
He was referring to the way things were prior to September 11, 2001.

Joe Ross 01-10-2004 12:15

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
[quote=gwross]His exact words (according to MSNBC's rush transcript) were:
Quote:

That wasn‘t going to work. That‘s kind of a pre-September 10th mentality, the hope that somehow resolutions and failed inspections would make this world a more peaceful place.[/quote
He was referring to the way things were prior to September 11, 2001.
But, pre-September 11th would have just as accurate (or more accurate), unless he was implying that things were different on September 10th.

I definetly think that Kerry did a better job. Bush did great at his convention, but I don't think that carried through.

I'm not voting for either, though.

Greg Ross 01-10-2004 12:18

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ogre
To Kerry's discredit, he didn't use the work ['lie'], making his point weaker. He should use strong words on his strong beliefs, which, I think, this is one of.

Using inflammatory, loaded words like "lie", "lying", "liar", etc. may appeal to Kerry supporters, but it tends to repulse undecideds and marginal Bush supporters. (I don't think that's what Kerry wants to do is it? Doesn't he want to convince those people?)

Quote:

To Bush's discredit, he didn't respond to the question. He responded by saying that Kerry flip-flops. He didn't answer any of the allegations. Big mistake.
Yeah, I noticed that too. It's a politician/campaign thing. :shrug:

Quote:

Again, please watch the C-Span feeds of debates.
I think I need a few more good reasons before I decide to spend my money on cable. :)

Greg Ross 01-10-2004 13:19

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Ross
But, pre-September 11th would have just as accurate (or more accurate), unless he was implying that things were different on September 10th.

True. But I think he simply stumbled in his word choice between "pre-September 11th mentality" and "September 10th mentality". Do you know anyone who makes similar speaking errors? I do, and I love her very much. ;)

Quote:

I definetly think that Kerry did a better job. Bush did great at his convention, but I don't think that carried through.
I agree that Kerry is a more polished extemporaneous speaker, but in no way has he convinced me I should vote for him.

Quote:

I'm not voting for either, though.
One of them is going to win (he stated categorically.) Does it really make no difference at all to you which one wins? If you vote for neither, you are, in essence, ceding your vote to someone who disagrees with you.

Joe Matt 01-10-2004 13:49

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gwross
True. But I think he simply stumbled in his word choice between "pre-September 11th mentality" and "September 10th mentality". Do you know anyone who makes similar speaking errors? I do, and I love her very much. ;)

While true, when you are running for reelection and your main point is homeland security and the terrorist attacks, you don't mess up the date. It's like FDR messing up saying December 6th was a day to live in infamy.

Zzyzx 01-10-2004 16:51

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
I believe Kerry had an advantage over Bush in yesterday's debate.

Bush seemed agitated at times, almost angry. Kerry seemed to be on the ball throughout the debate. However, It seemed (to me, at least) that both of them avoided the question asked, and instead started talking about Iraq or tax cuts.

We'll see who has won in November.

Joshua May 01-10-2004 18:31

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Zzyzx
Bush seemed agitated at times, almost angry.

I picked up on that, too, he didn't seem to like sitting there and being attacked like that, and then he couldn't come up with anything to defend himself.

JoeXIII'007 01-10-2004 21:46

Re: Who won the U.S. Presidential Debate? (Sept. 30)
 
Looking at it from a undecided voter's side, I saw Bush as too slow to answer the questions or respond to Kerry, and Kerry flip-flopped once, but quickly recovered. In other words, Kerry defeated Bush like it was nothing.

Now for the pro-Kerry side of my opinion: Being quick and confident in answering his questions, Kerry was READY for this, while Bush looked like he needed sleep. It especially showed on the one rebuttle Bush tried to do, and it started with a 5-second shot of him staring in the camera, mouth open and eyes blinking. LOL. Not to mention his vocabulary was small. How many times am I going to hear the word inconsistent, freedom, and other words he said 30 times or more? If one is going to win this race by the way he speaks, he should have a good vocabulary to desribe in concise details how he is going to go about his policies.
:cool:

My parents and I cannot wait for the debate on domestic issues. It will be interesting to see how Bush handles it.


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