Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

My team i think is thinking about buying a laptop for robotics and i wanted to see what the best is. I have an HP which is pretty good, i hear dell is good. We will be running the AutoDesk and all that other good stuff.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

better have a serial port!

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Or just get a serial to USB adapter.

What's your price range?

I can tell you the best computer (in my mind) it's gonna cost you a pretty penny though.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

We're looking for a laptop for programming, some Inventor and 3DSMax, and possibly a dashboard too. However, we need this laptop to be as economic as possible, as funds are limited, but we don't have a concrete price range at the moment.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Good luck trying to get those things to work.

That's why I had an important job this year on my team. I Downloaded all the code to the robot cause I have a Serial Port on my laptop (Dell Inspiron 8100) :)

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

1 word

avaratec! awsome laptop budget prices and very small...they don;t have a serial port though but everything rocks on these laptops

i got mine for 800 bux

1.6 amd xpm
512 mb
integrated 802.11 g
integrated ethernet
10"x10"x1"
cd-r dvd combo


i love this thing

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I highly suggest you check out www.cnet.com

They do great reviews on just about anything electronic. Also check out the main pages of several pc companies and compare specs with price ranges. For programming, you do not need something awesome, but if you are going to be using Inventor, and 3D StudioMax, then you need to get a fairly decent notebook. I advise looking at Dell; their stuff is okay, but you can get stuff for a good price. Make sure you have lots of ram, a nice processor, and an awesome graphics card, and I think you should be fine. Problem is on battery life (less than 2 hours). Also note that it is difficult to upgrade a laptop due to limited space, so try to get the stuff you really want now, instead of later. I hope this helps.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

You MUST have a serial port!!!!!!!

We bought a USB adapter for our Toshiba S127, and every time we tried downloading code, it locked up the computer. We ended-up using a team member's old, but working, Fujitsu PII 366 ebay laptop running 2000 AS for programming.

Now for AutoCAD and 3ds max, try not to get a Celeron, and make sure you can upgrade the memory to at-least 1024MBs. We ran 3ds max 6 on a Celeron 2GHz, with 512 of memory, minus 64 for graphics, and a 30 GB hard drive. Now were going to run it on an S126 with 2.8GHz Celeron, 512 -64, 30GB HD, and ATI Mobile Radeon 7000, but we still have to use SW rendering.

My suggestion:

Don't get a Toshiba. Buy from Circuit City or Best Buy. Your extended warranty is your best friend; It's worth every penny of the $150-250 price-tag. Make sure it does NOT have a Celeron processor, and that it does have a built-in serial port.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I would recommend against buying a Dell laptop. I bought one last year (an Inspiron 5150) and I'm not satisfied with it, even though it has a fast processor, an excellent video card, and plenty of RAM. A friend of mine recently bought a Toshiba with the same video card, same amount of RAM, and a slower processor, and it runs much faster than mine, even though mine theoretically should be running faster than his. My laptop has also broken down twice in the past four months, and had to be sent back for repairs.

Dell has excellent service and is fine for desktops and servers, and has great prices, but in my opinion Dell laptops are inferior in performance to similar laptops from other manufacturers. I would instead recommend HP or Toshiba.

By the way, I have never had any problems programming the robot with the USB to serial converter I purchased for my laptop, so don't worry too much about getting a laptop with a serial port (just worry about getting a good USB to serial converter).

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

If you dont care about brand names, check out a site like www.discountlaptops.com, or www.powernotebooks.com.

They're all from the companies that make laptops for the brand names,(You'll notice that one of the Sager models is exactly the same as the old Alienware Area-51M) and they come with the same standard warranties, and in many cases are identical to models sold by the brand names, except for looks (As I recall, Apple, and maybe one other manufacturer actually make their own laptops).

I got the Compal CL56 from discountlaptops.com, and I saved like $500 over the same spec'ed out Notemagix B50 from Velocity Micro (Identical computer, no Velocity Micro stickers on it). My dad wanted me to get a Dell, and had I gotten the same specifications in a Dell, it would have been over $1000 more than what I paid.

I've had it for over 2 months now, and I love it. I havent haid a single problem with it, and I leave it running 24/7. My friend who got an HP 2 months ago can't say the same thing about his. He's already sent it in twice :D

www.notebookforums.com is also a good site to check out. I did all my research on there, and Cnet, before deciding to get what I did.

Cory

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

If you're talking about me, it's a Compaq (yeah yeah, same thing), and it was once ;-).

As for laptop, go for anything that has a serial port. Period. If you want something to RENDER movies and such, you're better off with a desktop, much more cost effective. However, if you're looking for a "one size fits all" solution, find the best laptop you can with a serial port. My friend got a Dell recently, only because it had a serial port. I, honestly, hate Dells, so that wasn't enough to persuade me, but if you're using it for a robotics laptop, it had better have a serial port on it, or else you may be in for lots of trouble.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Thanks for all of your suggestions. Most if not all of the 3DSMax animation will be done on a desktop. The biggest thing we need this for is quick Inventor drawings and programming in the shop and at competition. We might also use it to display video presentations so we don't have to lug around a desktop. Thanks again for the suggestions, we'll take all of them into account.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I was wondering if there were any teams who had an Alienware laptop?

Btw - would the intel centrino processors be good for running 3D max, inventor, and all of the other good stuff?

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Dont waste your money on Alienware... you're paying for the name.

A Centrino is fine. Depends which one though. A centrino processor multiplied by 1.4 will give you the approximate clock speed of the comparable P4 processor.

I have a 2.0 ghz Dothan processor, which is roughly the same as a 2.8 ghz P4 processor, and it can run anything I ask it to fantasticly

Inventor and other similar programs dont rely on your processor's clock speed as much as they rely on RAM and your graphics card. If you had to choose between a faster processor, or more RAM, I'd go for the RAM.

Cory

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Very true, and good point. Although, I just wanted to put emphasis on the value of Dell computers. I am somewhat satisfied with Dell's overall value, and I am not qualified to talk about their laptops, since I do not own one. But I do have a desktop Dell PC, so there is a big difference (irrelevent I guess). If money was not a problem, I would not have gotten a Dell. So get something uber like AlienWare. :D

I think the big thing about the Intel Centrino is that it does not use up a lot of voltage to operate; this is good for laptops (especially for extended battery life usage). But since the Centrino processors are built specifically for mobile use, I am not sure if they are quite at par with a regular desktop processor (or similar to an Intel Pentium IV in this case). If somebody wants to clarify, please go right ahead.

What I do know is not to get a Celeron since these processors are cheaper, and were specifically designed for basic computing needs (email, typing documents, etc.). Which is not what you want when using Inventor or 3D StudioMax.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Here is a good description of Centrino:
Because increasing the processor GHz also increases the power used, Intel created a more efficient design with the Pentium M. The Pentium M is set to slow down to 600MHz when at idle (where it will consume only 6W), and then just like using a gas pedal it will accelerate to its rated speed when you ask it to do more than just simple typing. This also greatly improves battery life without losing any of its impressive speed.

Then, with the recent introduction of the new "Dothan" version of the Pentium M, the L2 On-die cache is now FOUR TIMES that of a Pentium 4 (2,048k as opposed to 512k used in the Pentium 4).

With its efficient architecture, and the extended L2 On-die cache, the performance of a Pentium M is roughly 1.7 to over 2 times that of a Pentium 4 processor. L2 On-die cache is where the processor stores the instruction sets that it uses most often. Just picture two carpenters each up on their own ladder. They both have tool belts on...but one of them has a tool box on his paint bucket shelf as well. Now, they both charge the same amount per hour. Which one are you going to hire?

Pentium M is also the same thing as Centrino, it just doesnt include the Intel wireless chipset

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I guess Cory knows his stuff. Can anybody say, "Computer Engineer?" :)

BTW - Thanks for clarification.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Id suggest an ABS Mayhem G2.. 1.7 ghz centrino with b/g wireless, 128 meg 9700 video card for 3ds max and 512 ram for inventor/dashboard/ etc. Its economically priced at 1699$ for the model i spec'd which is on the laptop homepage located at http://www.abspc.com/app/config.asp?mono=1851
this laptop also has a 1280x800 reso. screen and a 60 gig 5400 rpm hd.. as you can see on the page

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I'm not going to pour out my "geek of IST" and try to pusuade you to buy one brand over the other. Personally, I just DON'T like Dells for anything as high tech as what any of us would ever do. I have an HP ze4100 an a new HP zd7000. I will only suggest that you be fully sure you have THE BEST graphics card you can get for the system you purchase. Appx. 8 months after purchasing my ze4100, and running multiple programs for an engineering/design class including AutoCad.... I internally surged my mobo/video.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

When we won the Autodesk Inventor Award in 2003, Autodesk gave us an HP laptop. It runs Inventor very well. This is the laptop that Autodesk, not our team, thought was the best laptop to run the software. So I'd take Autodesk's advice if I were you.

Good luck!

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Or it means that it's the laptop Autodesk could get a company to donate them ;)

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Thats a DELL for you, the reason their tech support and service is so great is they get LOTS of practice, my Girlfriend had a dell for school and had to get it fixed many times, and she wasn't the only one. I personallay have an HP that I bought in 2001, it has worked nearly flawlessly ( I do stuff I know I shouldnt do and it says so).

Definatly do NOT get Celeron, they are cheap for a reason ( SLOW).


The one without the tool box on his laddar, as its bound to fall off and cause damage to thigns and take longer to pick up. ;)

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

For he best I'll give you three letters...IBM.

You want the BEST laptop, buy an IBM. Expensive, but there is a reason for that. They are rock solid and rarely, if ever, have problems. They'll run whatever you throw at them!

You want value, HP makes pretty solid laptops at a competitive price point. I am always more inclined to go with a brand-name computer because I know they have the resources to back it up. I'm always wary of the "Mom n' Pop Shops" that sell their laptops for rock bottom prices and don't back them up when they fail.

A word on serial ports - many manufacturers are reducing or eliminating the number of products they provide with serial ports. When I was researching laptops for a lab at our school I learned that HP will be phasing out serial ports in their laptop lines. The logic - USB is the replacement and fast becoming a standard. At the time (about a year ago) they were already cutting down on the number of models that came with serial ports. As such our entire laptop lab is outfitted with computers that only have USB ports. We've also purchased a set of USB to serial adapters and have had good luck with them so far. Of course, as you've read here, the conversion can be a finicky proposition!

Bottom line, do your homework - check out reviews online - talk to current laptop owners - you will get a wide range of advice but it will certainly help you weed out the potential problems. ChiefDelphi is a GREAT place for advice!

Good luck!

Sean

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

This is slightly off topic, but it was discussed in this thread a couple times on the topic of a USB to serial converter...Yes ive mentioned this many times and so has Joe Johnson, but this one works....

My question to the people who have used the USB to serial cord, was it a Belkin? Cause if it was throw it away.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...8&postcount=11

read that and your problem should be solved

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I've already seen people mention this; Dells are probably one of the worst laptops you can get. Desktop wise their computers are okay, but I have one of their Inspiron 5100, and it's developed so many problems only within the first year I've owned it. Not only are their unreliable as heck, their preinstalled software sucks, their factory configurations are horrible. Add to that their stuff is expensive; basically for the same price (around $2k), you could just get some HP/Compaq which will last longer.
I second Sean's recommendation. I've used IBM laptops and they're near bullet-proof, they can take a lot of abuse software and hardware wise (non-intentional, as in not purposefully kicking it), before you see any problems. Same goes for Sony VAIO's, great media computers; only thing that might stop you is their price tag, though some models come relatively cheap for the stuff you're getting.
HP/Compaq have fairly cheap price tags but you're just about getting what you pay for.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

In my personal opinion it really doesn't matter much. All you need is atleast 10 GB harddrive storage, even a pentium 3 processor would be fine. I use MasterCam and other 3D systems on my computers and they range from pentium 2-4. So for economic prices, you could just get a used laptop, or go to E-bay. But if you have a good 1,200 dollars i'd go with a pentium 4 processor 30 GB HD 256 MB RAM computer from any brand name or otherwise computer company.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I'm looking into getting a laptop for FIRST coding, also.
What are the minimum specs that you would need to code, compile and upload your programs? I'm guessing they won't be that high. Could I get by with a used 300MHz, 64 mb ram and a 1 Gig HD? I know thats kinda slow, but it's also cheaper then getting a new laptop.

Speed is not a big problem, btw. I have a 100MHz computer that I've tweeked till it runs faster then many 400MHz comps.

edit: I looked around a bit and managed to find the minimum requirements for the MPLAB compiler. (I didn't even know the name of the compiler when I started out, so I'd say I'm doing pretty good.)
Here they are:

I have heard that there is a linux port of the compiler too, I'll have to look for that and see if the sys specs are diffrent.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

When I started with the TechnoKats last season, the programming computer was slower and smaller than that. It worked fine. I temporarily donated a 500 MHz system running Windows 98SE, and it worked better. We eventually procured a much faster laptop, and it worked great. When compiling the program takes more than 30 seconds, one tends not to compile it very often. When it takes less than ten seconds, it's no big deal to do a "syntax check" compile after writing a small chunk of code.

You can certainly get by with what you're asking. I think you'll be happier with a significantly faster computer, but I don't think you'll be miserable if you can't get one.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

If you want the absolute best laptop, go with a Toughbook from Panasonic; specifically the CF-29. It has fast enough hardware for development and is incredibly durable.

Base Specs:
- Intel Pentium M 1.3 GHz
- 256 MB SDRAM
- 40 GB HDD

Durability:
- Can be dropped from a height of 3 ft.
- Can be frozen.
- Can be baked to 140 degrees Fahrneheit
- Can withstand a cup of water being poured onto display or keyboard

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I'm really surprised that "recommendations" have noted only 256 mb? As a general assumption of those of you running CAD, Inventor, Visual Studio, Photoshop, etc. on Delphi, do you really see reliability and speed with a good configuration and just 256 mb? I have always been a BIG guru for configuring my machines, and maxing out the memory on them. The minimum I run on either currently is 1GB, its just nice to not have to wait for anything to to appear - all a part of our "Now" economy. If you have the resources available to acquire a laptop, and choose your own specs, I'd suggest getting a little extra memory.



Additional note for above, our teams programmer used a 1986 IBM for seven years to program the robot. It all depends on just what you plan on using the machine for.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

I have a 1.6 GHz Centrino, 512 RAM, 60 HD, integrated graphics card, 15" screen. It works fantastically for Inventor and ProEngineer purposes (I have the student versions ^^) and I'm absolutely certain it's a great laptop for FIRST purposes, as it gets 3.5-6 hours battery life, depending on what you're doing...just in case you have to do some last minute coding on a bus ride or whatever. It's a Toshisba and came to around $1500. Also, if you prefer using the Linux compiler, this Toshiba had no problems whatsoever repartitioning and throwing a Debian partition on there...unlike my friend's similarly priced Dell laptop, this one had no hardware compatibility issues with Linux. Oh...eMachines don't like Linux either...I know a guy whose motherboard wouldn't even support modprobe.

But yeah, Toshiba is great. My model, for it's specs and price, is not very heavy 5.9 lbs and is just over an inch thick.

I'd recommend it.

Re: Best Laptop For FIRST?
 

Dell or Mac, if you can afford it.
As far as I know, macs have ghetto -> usb devices so that you can hook up retro things such as serial ports to a mac.