Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

I honestly don't find it to be attracting only geeks.
I'm not even close to being a geek, really. I'm more of an outgoing business person with serious PR skills. As many people may have found out. ;-)
But really, FIRST attracts all kinds of people; nerds, geeks, dorks, preps, techies, PR people, financial persons, etc. It's a wide range of people, and that's the amazing thing people hardly recognize. FIRST attracts everyone. It appeals to so many different people.
What we need to let people know is that there's something in FIRST for everyone. Not just engineering skills for geeks. There's PR skills, financial skills, CAD skills, Animation, Website building, etc. The list is practically endless!
That's the message we need to convey. FIRST can appeal to all. We just need to show that to them.

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

First of all, I just want to say that the Firebirds Rock!! We are looking forward to seeing you at Ramp Riot!

My advice is, just make your team fun. Dream up some school event or reason to demonstrate your machines. Sometimes our team will just practice in public areas of the school just to watch confused people scratch their heads. Kids will always come up and ask questions. Also be open to diverse groups of recruits and keep the faith. Everything else will follow.

As far as the stigma of geekdom goes, we laugh at people that laugh at our team. When people try to stereotype our team, we get in their face. We love our geeks, but we also recruit athletes, artists and business oriented people.
FIRST is NASCAR, FIRST is a Sport, FIRST is an adventure! I go crazy when anyone on our team calls it the Robotics "Club". We are a TEAM!!!

I guess what I am saying is get some attitude. What you are doing is amazing! We have grown through word of mouth. Friends recruit friends. It is amazing how far a little attitude goes.

In terms of female recruiting, we are about 40% female. We have strong female role models, both in terms of mentors and students. Nothing makes a student want to join more than seeing someone like themselves being successful and supported.

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

Exactly. Each FIRST team is like a mini corporation, and it needs people and trains people for all walks of life. I'm sure that if it was mandatory for freshman at schools that the teams would be huge, with some schools requiring more than one team. The problem is getting kids to committ the time necessary and the interest.

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

definetly do not promote robotics based on the trips and such. at least half of our team doesnt do squat, and ends up getting into trouble at the competitions.

To recruit people, use word of mouth, and show off the bot. We put ours in the school cafeteria and show it off, it actually helped out a lot. also, try showing them how it was built, lots of kids think it is really cool using the tools in a machine shop and such. A lego team would also probably help out a lot with kids coming into the school.

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

Honor roll? What team follows that rule? I think that 818 has a minimum GPA requirement, but I've never heard of it being enforced...

I go to a magnet school for math and science classes. We refer to ourselves as geeks all the time. Who says that being a "geek" is a bad thing? :)

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

What I mean is that only the "smart kids" join up and the not as bright feel like they don't belong when in truth FIRST is tailor made to encourage them.

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

honestly in my school I'm not considered a geek or nerd-- just an ib student and person involved in robotics-- a s.p.a.m. gal-- but then again my high school isn't a typical high school where there are real cliques--there isn't that most popular girl or most popular guy- it's a different world compared to martin county -- really we are respected at south fork-- people are like that's way cool u'r in robotics-- wow! :ahh: you guys made that-- and the whole geek nerd dork thin well it is what we simply say- we are proud to be like a band dork, robotics geek, ib dork/geek--whatever-- nobody takes offense to it nor really cares-- it's like a really cool thing--well this is how i see things in my high school-- sf is just not typical what can i say--so all and all being a "geek or nerd" or whatever name you want to refer to isn't bad :D
our team is made up of different ppl of course like all the teams-- it's not just the smart ppl aka AP and ib students-- but we have honor and on level students-- everyone contributes in their own way like in society-- we each shall make a difference-either it might be big or small but the size doesn't matter cause we all make a difference :)

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

Our team name is Ubergeeks so it would be hard for us to fit what we really are. I found found it is easier to make geek cool than to distance yourself from your inner geek.



Get your geek on!

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

Here's another way of looking at it:

Maybe people aren't concerned as much with the "geek-bias" as much as they are worried about being excluded from another clique. A lot of you may be scratching your head or just thinking that I'm crazy but the "popular crowd" is not the only group of people on campus who can be exclusionary. I'm not saying that this is universally true, but many times a group such as the robotics team can be consciously or subconsciously exclusive, or even just appear that way to others.

It's easy to say that it's people's loss if they can't figure it out and how great FIRST is, but isn't the purpose of FIRST to inspire people in science and technology? Why is this subject so near and dear to me? Because I would have been one of those people who didn't get it. It's not that I was afraid of being labeled a geek, I already know that I am, but rather that the robotics team at our high school was a really tight-knit group, and they all seemed to be like the same type of person...the type of person I couldn't identify with. However, after some active recruitment by my friend, the team leader, I joined in and realized how unique the personalities were and how many different opportunities FIRST provided.

So in my humble opinion, I think that FIRST should not be a passive club in terms of recruitment. Sure you can have the mentality of "they can come, and we will be here when they're ready to accept our geekness" but I think if you want a spectrum of ideas and talents, you have to go out and get people. It's great for FIRST to be a training ground for people who have already decided to be engineers but wouldn't it be even better if you get more people interested in science and technology, and the different ways that people can use their talents in that field?

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

your team name definatley wins the best team name ever award! :yikes:

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

I have fought for years to control the perception of "robotics kids" as geeks. Not because I have any problem with being a geek, but because I want other students to realize that FIRST is something that anyone can do.

Despite my best efforts, things aren't going to well. It's not that we haven't tried. We've done demonstrations, displays, announcements, and all types of recruting stuff. But we still don't generate enough student interest. I still take crap from EVERYBODY (students, teachers, even janitors) about being on the robotics team. It's kind of depressing. You work so hard to recruit people to FIRST, or to at least improve their understanding of FIRST, and get nowhere. I have found there are some fundamental problems.

1. It's extremely difficult to explain to people what exactly the FIRST experience is all about. You can show them your robot, you can show them video, you can make fancy displays, catchy advertisments, and make some really good presentations, and still not be able to explain what FIRST is all about. My point: You really don't "get" the FIRST experience until you've done it, until you've worked 5 late nights in a row building a robot, until you've traveled to a regional, until you've gone on some 12 hour road trips with your team, until you've spent a day in the pits. Maybe you can bring people to a competition, if you're lucky, but you still cannot really make them understand what FIRST is all about.

2. Since it's next to impossible to really make someone understand the FIRST experience, they have to actually join the team if they will ever "get it." Joining the team involves taking a risk, doing something they know nothing about. People are reluctant to make this risk. They know what football is, they know what soccer is. It's much "safer" to join a sports team that you know something about, than it is to join a "robotics team."

3. In order to make this risk something that was worth doing, they have to get something out of their FIRST experience. Some people will join the team, and really not get much out of it. How much a student gets out of FIRST depends on what they put into it (like a lot of things in life.) Many people don't realize this. FIRST doesn't impact them the way it does to many of us because they've put nothing into it! You will only have a worthwhile expeience in FIRST if you put some work into it (yes, work. Of course, you'll also have tons of fun)

4. Many people don't want to put this work into it. Point made. No matter how much you push some people, they don't want to do any work. As such, they will not benefit from the FIRST expereince. A great thing about FIRST is that there is always something to do, if you are motivated enough.

When I first joined my school's robotics team as a freshman, all I knew was that I was joining a robotics team, I knew nothing of what FIRST was. The obvious fact that the robotics team build robots appealed to the geeky side of me. I wanted to build robots, because it sounded like fun. When I was first introduced to the FIRST/Dean Kamen idealology, I didn't really think to much of it, I just brushed it aside and ignored it. But I have come to realize how true it actually is. I look around school and the students and the teachers all GLORIFY the sports teams. The robotics team is just something there to be made fun of. And Dean Kamen is absolutly right about this, it is a fundamental culture problem. Once you realize this, you want to change it. I have tried, and continue to try A LOT. But you have to understand the forces you're working against. They are powerful, because people are stubborn, and they don't like to change their opinions.

And at some point you realize this: FIRST is not for everyone. You have to pick your battles, and aim for small victories. Don't try to win everyone over. Talk to your friends, talk to indivdual people one on one. Anyone who expresses some interest, talk to them. That's how you get people to join FIRST. Giving presentations to the whole school is great (and our team has done it) but like I said, small victories. You can give your presentation, but most people walk away without thinking about it. But if two people come up you you after the presentation you gave to 800 people, those are the people you've got to aim for.

And as for that whole "geek" perception of "robotics kids" at some point you stop caring. People will make their comments, and take their cheap shots, but I've really stopped caring. Never let what other people think stop you from doing what you love. We all know that FIRST is not just a geek thing. But there's a lot of people who you will never be able to convince. So here's my advice: Don't even try for these people, because those are the type of people you don't want on you team. Let them think what they want.

The whole issue that you brought up, about changing people's perception of FIRST and recruting team members is a complex one. There is no right answer. But I've already given you my advice (which many people disagree with): Don't try to change everybody's opinion, it's impossible. Let some people think we are geeks, don't let it bother you. Aim for the individuals. I know FIRST is all about changing society. But my approach is one person at a time. Of course, the realistic side of me realizes we will never "win" this way. But I don't care. I don't want to win everyone over, because there are a lot of jerks out there, who I really wouldn't want on my team. Focus on the indivuals, recruit, inspire and you won't have changed society as a whole, but 1) You'll have a great team with great people and an experience you'll remember for the rest of your life. And 2) You will have inspired at least some people. It's still worth it.

Sorry for the long rant. The thoughts just kept on coming...

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

Yes, Aaron makes a VERY good point! Make sure that people earn their spot at the competition. Don't just let people go because they showed up!
And by the way Aaron... was it not your team that got in trouble for surfing at Bash? ;) :yikes:

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

In my school, none of our team cares whether people call us geeks or nerds, or those robotics kids. We have pride in our team and that's all that matters. When someone gives me a hard time, I just break out the fact that my team is the only one that has gone to the National Finals, won a Regional Competition, placed 3rd in another, and will secure me a place in a good college, as well as a good job later in life. Then I ask them what football or hockey is going to do for them. o.O

As for recruiting more people, ask to get your meeting times posted on the announcements, or talk to your friends about it. The easiest way to recruit people is by telling them what you do, how fun it is, and about all the cool people they can meet (like me ;) ).

[Edit]
And who says being called a geek is a bad thing?
[/Edit]

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

oh my poor misunderstood friend, here lies your problem, FIRST is for everyone, its for the "athlete"(human player) its for the "computer nerd"(autodesk inventor, 3dstudiomax, and robot programing, webpage design) its for the (and this is just my opinion) really really scary way to peppy people (no offense) ( Public relations, Cheering) its for the "Englishmajorextrodinare"'s(award submissions), is for those that are handy with tools(that whole building robots thing) there are hundereds of jobs for anyone who wants to do anything on a team
I think FIRST teams have evolved from just a group of kids building a robot, they now have to be thier own business and in most business their are jobs for everyone
i try to stress this every year to everyone who joins our team, THERE IS A JOB FOR YOU you just have to find it

by the way when someone calles me a dork or geek, i tell them to look up dork and geek in the dictionary, and that i would rather be called nerd :)

Re: Breaking the Geek-FIRST Bias
 

At open house this past Thursday, I found that the most effective recruiting tool was to go right up to a person and start talking about robotics and what a great learning experience it is. I got about 3 girls to apply for the team through this method and met a whole lot more.

I thought the highlight of the evening was when the wife of a Cornell law prof came up to me and started talking animatedly about engineers. One quote sticks out: "If I had to do it over again, I'd marry an engineer. You guys learn to work together instead of arguing... I married a lawyer... Plus, engineers are smart and good problem solvers." She then hailed over the wife of the Dean of the Law School @ Cornell and told her to get money for our team. I was ecstatic.

Another high point came when Steve Squyres discussed FIRST with me. He really seemed to be impressed by the program. "A lot of the things you guys are asked to do have real life applications." He has two daughters at the high school but I haven't been successful in recruiting them yet. Wish me luck.