NBA or WWE you decide...
 

OK I just saw the Pacers vs Pistons vs Fans fight. I think this is totally ridiculous! These pro athletes need to show themselves as a role model. The fans were a bit over the line though. Theres no need for fans to throw bottles, cups, etc on the court or at the players. Artest and all the Pacers did go over the line when they went into the stands, I can't really blame them though...sounds sad yes I know but put yourself in their shoes. The Detroit fans were way out of line. This whole thing was started by Ben Wallace who was fouled by Artest with like 49 sends left. If he would have had some self-discipline he wouldn't have punched Artest. So, I just want to know everyones input on this thing that just happened. If you haven't seen it yet I am sure you will see it on the news....

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

I really couldn't care less... although I am pretty pissed about the ramifications for my fantasy team since I have Artest...

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

The fans were totally wrong. They think purchasing a ticket gives them the right to behave in any manner they please whether that is abusing atheletes or other fans ( I go to Bills games and there have been fights and ejections at every game. Some people have written the local people about how nasty the fans have been including the motehr of an 11 year old boy who was verbally abused after his Jacksonville Jaguars defeated the Bills in the opening game). Fan behavior has deteriorated to dangerous levels.
I just hope we never see that in FIRST (even though we had issues with a grumpy mentor at the championships who was snapping at everyone around him. Gracious Professionalism won out and there was no problem).

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

I've watched the footage of the melee a few times now, and I can't stop shaking my head. The whole situation was ridiculous. Here's list of all the culprits.

The Fans -- You can't start throwing things at the players. It's stupid and immature, amd dangerous. Not just dangerous for the target, but as we saw tonight, dangerous for the thrower and for anyone sitting near him.

Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson et. al. -- I don't care if you got hit with a water bottle, that does not give you a right to go charging into the stands. Artest can talk about self defense all he wants, but let's be serious. He was not in imminent danger. There were security and police officers who would have dealt with that fan.

So Artest runs into the crowd, attacks a first guy who actually had no part in the situation, and then attacks the bottle thrower. While all of this is happening, a riot erupts. This is why players shouldn't go charging into the stands, even if they've been wronged. Inciting riots is not a good thing. In this riot many innocent people were shoved and trampled.

So the bottom line, everyone involved in this situation is to blame. The drunk cup tossing fans, the players who started attacking the fans. The porous security who did very little to stop the whole thing. Good grief.

Honestly, I'm not going to another NBA game, until I'm given some sort of assurance that this won't happen again. Knowing my luck, I'll be the guy who's sitting beside the drunken moron who throws the next cup, that ends up getting mistakenly attacked by Ron Artest.

This is going to leave a huge black mark on the NBA, it's fans and the entire city of Detroit. It's sad considering that most of the fans and players and had nothing to do with it. 'Tis life...

I really hope there are some major ramifications for those involved. We were very luck that no one was seriously injured (as far as we know). If proper punishment isn't handed out (to the players and the fans), I fear there will be a repeat down the line, where we aren't so lucky.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Yes, the fan(s) who threw stuff at the players were 100% out of line, and disgusting. The players, however, shouldn’t have went into the crowd. There are security and ushers, especially down courtside, who would’ve taken care of the situation. They would’ve done so without causing, more or less, a riot to erupt.

It was a plastic cup and cold liquid – if they can’t shrug that off and let security take care of the rude fan, they’ve got serious anger problems they should be dealing with.

I don’t think you can blame one group of people in this thing. The fans were wrong to throw stuff, and the players were just as wrong to go up in the stands and ‘defend’ themselves.


Disgusting.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Everyone losses when situations like this occur. Why would you commit a blatant foul with less than a minute to play while you team is winning by double digits? I watched the entire game, it was a very emotional game to begin with because it was between the 2 teams that had played a very physical series during last years playoffs. The league sends a rookie ref as part of the crew and there were multiple technical fouls and a ton of whining for calls by both teams. You could see that the situation was not a typically friendly game between 2 cross town rivals on Friday night. There hasn't been a good ending to any situation where the opposing teams players (in any sport) goes into the stands. Too bad some folks didn't see this one coming, I thought it was an accident just waiting to happen.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

I didn't see any of the game, but it sounds like bad news for the NBA's image.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp..._pistons_brawl

By the way, this is one of the reasons that venues only use plastic bottles for beer and other drinks or just use plastic "party cups" now.

Just imagine if that was a glass bottle... :ahh:

Plastics make it possible. :rolleyes:

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Back in the 70's during a Cowboys/Vikings game when Preston Pearson of the Dallas Cowboys caught a hail mary in Minnasota by commiting a blatant offensive pass interference (it's in the NFL films achive and you can see him shoving the defender in the back and knocking him to the ground before the catch) an angry fan threw a bottle at a ref hitting him squarely in the head and knocking him out.
And don't forget that Cleveland/Jacksonville fiasco a few years ago...

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Artest should just be gone from the league. He keeps getting in trouble for foolish fouls, punished, and doing it again after he gets back. I guess the politics will just give him another 10 game suspension.

That punch as he was leaving was wild, and he should get charged with assault for that.

Wetzel

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Okay, that was not a blatent foul. When someone goes up for a layup, and someone else goes to block him, there's usually contact. All Artest did was go up with Wallace. If anything, Wallace was in the wrong for what he did after.

Back on subject, I won't get into who started the whole thing. Hey, the benches cleared, a few staredowns and a couple nudges occured. That happens all the time (not that it should, I'm just saying it does). And suprisingly, Artest was staying out of it. Then he got hit with a cup. And I have to say, in that situation, I kinda don't blame Artest for what he did (even though I don't think it was right). Then we get our domino effect.

In summary: Wallace started it all. :p Okay, deeper summary: I'll hold both Artest and the fan who threw the cup at him responsible. The players who followed into the stands are all in the wrong too (and since I still believe in chivalry, I kinda see why they did it as well; they were defending their leader). However, any fans on the floor got what was coming to them.

And for a second there, I thought the NHL had resolved their lockout. :D

BTW, the WWE is docile compared to what happened last night.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Karthik, I agreed with the content of most of your post, but these two statements directly contradict each other.

As I understood it, there was all of one security personnel on the floor at the time.

So while security and police would have dealt with the fan, they obviously didn't, and I'm sure that changed Artest's reaction.

By no means does that mean Artest isn't responsible for his actions, but had there been an appropriate number of security personnel there, I think it's safe to say the incident would not have escalated so much

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

First off, many people have the wrong impression about Ron Artest because all they hear about him is what the national media tells them. Living in Indy, I get to see him play almost nightly and he very rarely does something that is dirty or illegal. In fact, he received a flagrant foul about a week ago because of his reputation. A few days later, NBA took back the flagrant and cleared his record of it since he did nothing wrong. This has happened to him many times in the past as well. I'm not saying he hasn't messed up before, but I don't think he's as crazy as some make him out to be.

The melee that occurred was not completely Artest's fault or Ben Wallace's fault. I think a good portion of the blame needs to go to the few people in the stands who instigated the brawl by throwing things at the Pacers. I'm not saying Artest should have done what he did, but it is understandable. Also last night when Shaq was asked about the situation, he said he would have reacted the same way that Artest did.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Don't watch the hand thats going up to block the shot, watch the hand that is pushing him in the back of the neck/head. That's what Wallace was so angry about, I'm guessing.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Ben Wallace overeacted alot to what had happened.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

hands down artest, jackson thrown out of the league and criminal charges filed. Artest has been a loose cannon his whole life i was just waiting for him to snap. This is a disgrace to any pro sport

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

It saddens me to see such a small situations escalate into something so big. I'm actually ashamed to be in Indianapolis at the moment, that whole incident reflected poorly upon our entire city. It wouldn't surprise me if Artest and others were out for the entire season with criminal charges filed (although they won't have to do any time because they all have money). Detroit's fans have always been rough, but I just didn't think they would stoop to such a low level. The fans and the players display of complete and utter disrespect really just saddens me :(

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

We all have kind of forgot who really provoked all of this....the fans. Artest would have NEVER hit the fan if he didn't get hit with beer, bottles, and such. I do agree though he should have handled it differently but put yourself in his shoes.

On another note, Jackson, Artest, and Wallace should all be suspended 3-5 games. Wallace should get the toughest punishment due to him hitting Artest causing the fans to get out of control.

Another note, did anyone see Freddie Jones get nailed by some black dude? He was trying to break the fight up and he got absolutely NAILED. I think that guy along with the guy wearing the "police" shirt should be arrested, along with the guy that got onto the court(to me thats like a player going into the stands and hitting a fan, isn't this a 2-way street?).

Last note, I think there should be plexi-glass walls put up around the courts now and have NO player/fan contact EVER. They need to learn that the players deserve respect, while the players should give equal respect back to the fans. If they had those "shields" up none of this would have been started.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

...and sues everyone and their brother involved with the incident, and makes $$$$$$ as a result. Christmas has come early for Detroit-area lawyers this year.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Yeah, I'm not saying what he did was OK. He shouldn't have reacted to that, and let the refs do their job. I was just pointing out to Eddie that it was more than just normal contact.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Im still not sure what to say about this, but heres what i can kind of sum up.

Ben Wallace got wayy to angry over a simple foul(even if he did get punched in the head, it happens)
Then the stupid fans started to throw stuff at Artest-This is where it shouldve been stopped. Police and Security were too slow to react to the events, and they shouldve been able to prevent Artest from getting in the stands.
Artest, O'Neal, and Jackson-should never have thrown punches back because it reflects poorly upon themselves, their team, thier city, and makes them horrible role models. But, they were provoked, and these days many fans dont realize that going through heckling everyday does get to you and when your in a very heated game(no matter what point of the season) your emotions will get the best of you.

This brings up a few major things to think about.(I personally hate to have to say these, but with the conservative/strict mindset America is in, someone has to) One-Do you separate the court/game from the seating area.-This has always been one major appeal to the NBA, you are right thurr with the team, and you can really get into it.
Two-Do you stop selling alcohol at games(Im sure some of those fans were completely trashed)-Everyone likes to go to a game and have a drink, but when do you call it too much, and how can you stop it from getting out of hand(since we all know, people dont know when to stop)
Three-Criminal charges and suspensions(who gets charged and for what)?
Four-How do you prevent this from happening again.

I think Artest, O'neal, Jackson, Wallace all should be suspended(note-they already have been suspended indefinitely). Jackson will get the longest-not sure what game range-15 at the most(although that to me, is outrageous)O'Neal will get somewhere around 7, and Artest will get more then he should(acted in self defense-ya i know it was a plastic cup, but with all these crazy things happening, it could be something dangerous)-probably 12ish. Wallace will get 4 for the whole starting of the ruckus.

Criminal charges-Misdemeanors at the most(I'd hope) i see heavy fines and possible jail time for some. Like i said, they were provoked, and should be judged that way. The Fans should be banned for life, and be sent to jail for longer though, much longer.


If anything comes from this, i hope its that Alcohol is being phased out of the arenas, and more security around the players to prevent these morons from ruining a great game.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Unfortunately, the NBA has no controls over the fans. They can't tell the fans how to behave. They can tell the players how to behave though.

Artest, Jackson, and every other player who was fighting in the stands should be banned from the league.
The NBA needs to adopt a ZERO tolerance policy. The players need to be held accountable.

Most professional sports need a zero tolerance policy. This is a perfect opportunity for the NBA to spearhead this.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

I disagree with that type of policy-they are humans too-they cant control their feelings all the time too. I personally think before such a horrible restriction comes into the game, more needs to be done to protect the players/or better yet, not let fans get drunk at games, and having guards be more strict with the hecklers.

I can see a no-tolerance type rule in football or hockey because they both are playing with very dangerous equipment, that could kill someone very easily. Baseball for that matter too, but baseball tends to have calmer fans, and more calm-headed players. Football and hockey the players get heated very fast, thats the major drawing of their game. Basketball is different. Fans should be right on the court(not actually on it), its the best part of the game.

Like i said before, the NBA can prevent these events from happening, beef up security and get Beer out of the arena. Even if they dont ban alcohol, maybe they could have a type of quick test to tell if someone should be drinking or not. All major fan events have occured because fans were drunk and not able to realize what they were actually doing.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

What's done is done - the league and the law will enforce what they can. Anyone that thinks this was an isolated incident, has been watching ESPN sound bites for too long. Because everyone is only seeing the big fight, no one knows what had happened during the time preceding the incident. Too bad, because that is what really caused the event to occur. The whole game was played "on the edge" and the situation was fueled by the bad blood between these 2 teams and certain players. Because the score and the time left on the clock - the Pacers last possession ended up with Ron A getting inside the paint and Ben W letting him lay it in without contesting it. He could have, but must have realized that the game was over - that basket wouldn't matter, cuz Indiana had won the game and contesting the shot was meaningless. So with 45 seconds to go Ben is at the other end - probably thinking the same thing, when he feels a hand pushing him in the back of the head/neck. I think he just lost it, because he couldn't believe anyone would do that in that situation. Up by 12 or 15 and contesting a layup? Why?? Was Ron trying to send some sort of a message? I just don't get it - but then again this wasn't the first time Ron A started a fight at the end of a game between the Pacers and the Pistons - similar situation, similar results - 3 years ago with Corless Williamson. In that episode Artest hit Ben in the side of the head as he was trying to restore the peace - he got between the 2 others players and had his back to Ron. If I recall correctly in that incident and most others where fights occur between players the ref's and security immediately escort the ejected players from the court. Why were Ben W and Ron A still on the court? Why was Ron allowed to lie down on the scoring table and put a headset on?

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

While it may be true thet we can't control our feelings, we CAN control our actions. That's what makes us different from the animals.
I could go for that. It really disturbs me when I go to a major sporting event and see people getting belligerant or rowdy because of the alcohol they have consumed.
Goes right along with my contention that humans should control their impulses.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

The only thing is, our impulses can be too strong sometimes, and you might not be able to do anything to stop it. They might have chemical imbalances that make them less controllable(ya i know its completely off the wall, but some people do). I mean, most people will have a reaction to fight back, but some will contain it, with these types of players, in these heated games, its tough for them to control it all.

I also think though, that the alcohol idea, will never go through. Its too big of a "staple" in america's backbone to separate alcohol and sport.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

As long as someone is willing to say "our impulses can be too strong", someone else (or maybe the same person) will take it as an excuse.
Unfortunately, I think you're probably right.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Beer will never be pulled from major sporting events. Just today, I was selling it at the UConn football game, as one of our fundraisers.

Most of the security personel (the ones in the yellow jackets) are also volunteers. If you had a fully trained staff, you would have to pay them, and your costs would go through the roof.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Cory,

What I was trying to say was that there was enough security to handle one cup thrower. They didn't have time to deal with him, because Artest made reacted so quickly. If given enough time I think they could of handled it. They definitely did not have enough personnel on staff to handle the near riot that ensued.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Even though it may be difficult for one to control thier actions when they are caught up with feelings of anger, EVERY PERSON is still responsible for their own actions. While every person differs in their level of tolerance before they reach a breaking point, should that excuse some people from taking responsibility for what they do? Normally, when people do something wrong, they cannot say "oh, I lost control of my anger" and expect to be not held accountable for what they have done. If that were the case, how could violations of the law be dealt with properly?
I agree with this statement in terms of a complete ban of alcohol consumption.
But I think that a better way of dealing with this type of situation would be to limit the amount of alcohol consumption, but not ban it entirely. If a person looks like they are becoming intoxicated, then they shouldn't be served any more alcohol. It puts other people around them in danger, as well as possibly endangering themselves. I don't think it would be feasible to completely ban alcohol at sporting events, but I think it would be a good idea to restrict excessive consumption.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

I am fairly sure that this policy is already in effect at most sporting events.

The thing is, there's probably 20 or 30 places a person can get beer at any given NBA game, and I'm sure no matter how drunk someone is they'd manage to find one stand that would serve them.

Beer sales make vendors WAY too much money to stop doing it on account of something like this.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

One image that will stick in my mind about the fight...the little kid crying. That pretty much sums it all up. How could these "role models" do that to the little kids????

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

This seems pretty simple to me: at sports games there are spectators and there are players. The plays are expected to engage other plays and never interact with spectators.

That's not to say that fans aren't accidentally hurt. Hockey is an excellent example, as a spectator in a hockey arena you enter knowing you could be hit with a puck. In fact, at a professional game you are usually told by the announcer about that possibility and your ticket usually indicates that as well.

This isn't the splash zone at a Sea World shumu show...I doubt any ticket or announcer, even at a WWE wrestling event, would say "fans, if you're seated within the first 10 rows you could become part of the action." The action? An athletic player barrels through the crowd with fists swinging hoping to land a punch to the face of any innocent person who's in front if him."

I hope that the NBA bans Artest and Jackson for going into the stands and fighting spectators. I feel the NBA should also push the state's prosecutor to aggressively prosecute Artest and Jackson- they are thugs and deserve jail time.

I bet you won't see this happen again if Artest and Jackson dump their salaries to fans at the same time they're prison buddies.

EDIT: Everyone seems to be making a big deal about the fans throwing stuff. I don't think they should do this, but please consider that nothing that the area provides can actually hurt someone. For instance, those beer bottles? At every large crowd event I have gone to in the past couple years the beer bottles are made out of plactic. Getting hit with one is the equivelant of getting hit with a plastic Coke bottle.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Yeah but if he does get the 10 game suspension his team is screwed. I heard on the news that his team barely had enough players to start with. Yeah.... I always wondered about the WWE and fan involvement. I mean they have to stage the parts where the wrestler attacks an audience member right??!!??

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

The Pacers only had eight players in uniform for the game because the NBA requires it. Due to injures and suspensions this means that 1 injured player (Scott Pollard) had to dress for the game and sit. The Pacers players rallied together and played a hard game, holding a team that averages 99 points a game to only 86. When Scott Pollard, Reggie Miller, and Jamal Tensley are healty enough to play the team should be good till the other players are let off suspension (if they are).

I don't have much to say about the game other than I thought it was pretty stupid, although I see this as a good thing for the Pacers as the people who normally don't get a chance to play a whole lot will get their opportunity in the next weeks. If they can stand strong and win some games the team will become stronger in the end with the return of the suspended players. Hopefully they can pull it together and win the NBA title this year.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Even though ben wallace was slapped in the shoulder....it wasnt even a flagrant foul...

1. Artest and Jackson were definately at fault for going into the stands, but honestly if you were in his place wouldnt you do the same thing? 99 out of 100 people would. I dont care what you say, you would do it.

2. Ben Wallace knew what he was doing by continuing to go after Artest, he knew how the fans would react...Detroits fans (in all sports) have a history of being "barbarians" The fact of the matter is that Ben Wallace started an unecessary riot.

3. The Palace of Auburn Hills is at fault for not prroviding enough security....they had 1 cop with a can of mace behind the Pacers bench. After everything had started, the ESPN crew only counted 2 cops on the floor until the riot squad came in several minutes later.

4A. Fan behavior was ridiculous...dumping beer all over the players, hitting referees with beer bottles, tresspassing on the court....(in my opinions the ones who came on the court deserved what they got...they shouldn't have been there in the first place), throwing folding chairs at players and security...just sick. After Shaq's game that night he was asked what he thought and he said "I dont blame Artest, I would have done the same thing." Could you imagine that beast coming at you like Artest did? Good god, he would remind me of Donkey Kong trying to pound you into the ground.

4B. Anyone who saw that video saw after Ron Artest went after the fan shows another fan, not breaking up the fight, but going up behind him and throwing a haymaker right into the side of his head.

If I were handing out the punishments, Ben Wallace would get 10 games. Ron Artest would get [edit] 5...he hit the wrong fan when he went up into the crowd[/edit], Jermaine O'neal would get off the hook (all he did was knock down a fan who came on the court after probably Artest) and Stephen Jackson should get 10 for trying to start the players riot back up (before the fans got involved) and then following Artest into the stands, not to get him out of there, but help beat them up.

The Detroit organization is who I place at fault here for not providing enough security....if they would have provided better security (1 cop behind each bench doesn't cut it...) nothing outside Ben Wallace getting in Artests face (where Artest didnt even do anything, he was behaving himself). I just hope Detroits fans grow up and realize what they did to the children in the arena at the time.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

You are probably right.

I had an idea... I don't know if it would work or not, and I am sure that the system would be abused anyway... but maybe not to the extent that it is now.

Maybe a way that someone could keep track of how much a person has been drinking would be to have a little chart on the back of each person's ticket stub, and each time they bought a drink, they would be required to have the back of their ticket stub stamped. They could have a maximum amount of times that their ticket stub could be stamped... giving them a maximum number of times that they could buy a drink.

I can see where this system would fail if someone used someone else's ticket stub after theirs had already been filled up. I think that along with their ticket stub, people should also present a form of personal identification, such as a driver's license. That form of identification would be linked to their ticket stub within a database, and if their ticket stub didn't match with their ID card, then they wouldn't be allowed to buy another drink. I know it sounds a little bit complicated, but heres the scenario as I see it.

A person walks up to beer vendor and asks to buy a drink. Vendor says, "Can I see your ticket stub and an ID?" Vendor uses some sort of a handheld ticket scanner to scan a bar code that is located on the ticket stub. If the ID on the scanner for the stub matches the identification that is presented, and the person hasn't exceeded the maximum amount of drinks they are allowed... then the person is allowed to buy a drink. Then the vendor stamps the back of the person's ticket.

I know it's all a bit complicated, but this is a complicated issue. I think that the problem is common enough to merit action on the part of sports areas to eliminate excessive consumption of alcohol. There are probably some loopholes in the idea presented above... and if you can point them out... thats fine. Perhaps it will get other people thinking about other ways to solve the problem that might be even better. If there is a simpler way, I hope that someone can come up with it.

As for my feelings on taking no action at all... see my signature for a better idea of the way that I feel.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Thats exactly it. The thing is though, the NBA is gonna make a stupid ruling, its bound to happen. They will only look at the charging into the stands and suspend people for that. I know Artest and Jackson are gonna miss a ton of games. The coverage ive heard so far, expects each to miss at least 15(that was the lowest i've heard). Wallace will end up with 4, maybe. O'Neal will get probably 1 or 2 less then wallace.

I'd hope that none of the players would get more then 10, the fans are the ones to blame, but i know it will happen and hopefully not ruin the Pacers run for the title.

And i agree with the DET org and fans being at fault. If the organization provided more security this never wouldve happenend.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

I am sick and tired of hearing how bad Detroit Sports fans are. The misconception is that we're violent, stupid, and have no respect for sportsmanship. Nothing could be farther from the truth. How many other cities have had riots and bad fans, and the national media has given it little to no coverage? There were some scrums in Boston after the Sox won the Pennant and later the World Series, but where was the media attention? The small sound bytes that were made implied that these were just small, isolated incidents. Which is EXACTLY WHAT THIS WAS - AN ISOLATED INCIDENT! A few fans got out of control and a huge debacle insues.
People say, "Well, how typical of Detroit." But it's NOT just Detroit! Denver's Mile High Stadium has had their scraps with fans. So has LA, Cleveland, and practically everywhere else you could mention. What about baseball? There are always incidents of fans breaking onto the field, some seriously hurting baseball players. In 2001, Tie Domi on the Toronto Maple Leafs beat up a fan who was leaning into the penalty box in Philly. According to the logic I've seen against Detroit, that must mean that ALL Philly fans are evil and stupid and don't deserve to have a hockey team.
How about that baseball fan who got too excited and caught a fly ball which ended up scoring runs for the home team? Does that mean that ALL fans are like that, liable to do anything so that their team can win?
Since Detroit fans are sooooo bad at ALL sporting events, is this what you expect when you come to town for the Great Lakes Regional or Detroit Regional? Do you think that the people there are going to all spontaniously riot? OF COURSE NOT! Don't let the example of a few bad eggs ruin the reputation of an entire city.

And you never hear ANYTHING about how the fans of Detroit celebrated PEACEFULLY without a hitch in 1997, 1998, and 2002 when the Red Wings won the Cup! You never hear anything about how Detroit was calm and peaceful when the Pistons won the championship this year. All people care about is when Detroit does something bad, which just perpetuates the myth that Detroit is a lawless broken town like in RoboCop or something. We've had our bad breaks - 1984 Tigers, 1990 Pistons, the fireworks shooting, and most recently on Friday. But how many OTHER cities have had the same problems without HALF as much media attention as what is on Detroit?

Also, I've heard no discussion on the brilliant questions of meaubry. The officials made a rookie mistake of not breaking up Wallace and Artest and the rest immediately. They let it escalate for nearly a minute before a fan saw a perfect (perfectly stupid, albeit) shot at Artest sleeping on the scoring table.
What was Artest thinking being so casually flippant that close to upset fans? If I had just ticked off an entire arena, I'd want to put as much distance between me and the fans as possible, not stick my head in the lions den. He was asking for trouble that way, but I'm not defending the drunken fans. Artest did break the cardinal rule of sports though, going into the crown and beating up (THE WRONG) fan.

Where was security? With 50 seconds left where do you THINK that they were?!?!?! Controlling traffic out in the parking lot, of course. Who expects a riot with less than a minute to go? Most of the fans were gone, trying to beat the traffic onto I-75.

Don't blame Detroit, and don't blame the Pistons. It was an accident that got out of control, and the blame should be placed on the INDIVIDUALS responsible. The Palace has no less security than any other basketball team. In fact, I think the security is great. They were just caught with their pants down on this one. Would you expect anything more from any other stadium in this circumstance?

Incedently, I don't even like or care about basketball. I'm a hockey fan, myself. Maybe Hockey is too blame. No hockey season, then people actually GO to Pistons games. Something to think about...

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Suspensions
Artest-rest of season
O'Neil- 25
Jackson-30
Wallace-6
Johnson-5
others were suspended just not sure who, I heard miller got one game.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Im not saying just because they are detroit fans this happened, im saying it was there stupid behavior that caused this.

Unofficial suspensions are out(and i hope they are complete bulldunky)
Artest-gone for season
O'Neal-25 games
Jackson-30
Wallace-6
Anth Johnson-4
and reports of another 4 with one gamers.
Miller-Billups-Coleman-Campbell.


I think its complete nonsense that the person who started it all gets 5 games. It was pointless for him to fight back-i hope the NBA rethinks there decision and gives him something worse.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Stern said he was going to give a punishment to make a point....well I think he pushed it too far...

The National Basketball Association
Attn: Fan Services
645 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10022

Send them a piece of your mind...I know I will

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Im with ya. The NBA has gone wayyy overboard in this punishment, its time to punish them.

I hope someone sues these fans or some of them get arrested, or more morons like them will start to do these things, and really ruin the game.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Oh don't worry. They'll be getting their in the comming weeks. You can bet on that.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

The Pacers had a really good chance of making another Championship run this season, but it's over for us now. 3 of our players best are now out for half the season. That means we (Indianapolis and Indiana) are going to be losing out on a lot of revenue generated from the games. Nobody will want to go to games this year because we are going to suck. Artest did deserve to get a severe punishment but the rest of the season is a little much. Another way to send a severe message would have been to fine them. I think something like a 30 games with a $500,000 - $1,000,000 fine would have sent a very harsh message. I hope that they identify some of the "fans" who sat behind the bench in Detroit will lose their season tickets or be banned from coming to games. They don't deserve to be in the stadium with their rude and immature attitudes.

But the biggest losers in this whole thing are the fans. Last night's game against Orlando was pretty exciting but our fans will only support these young guys for so long. Having 6-10 very young players eligible players can only keep up so long.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Nice job by the commissioner. If you think he was too harsh, just wait til the Law enforcement officers serve up the arrest warrants and the lawyers go after the really big money. Too bad - but, think how'd you feel if a guy as big as a pro basketball player hits you right in the face - for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. The guy he went after wasn't even the right guy. Think about it, what if that guy was your friend, brother, or uncle and he didn't do anything to cause this nut case to attack him. Think about what you'd do? Most normal people would just stand there and let the guy whamp on them - without cause - just because it's okay, because someone else dis-respected him? Sorry - get real, there is NO justification for that. I felt sorry for that guy - just glad it wasn't a woman or child. The action taken should justify assault and battery charges. Self defense would have held up nicely if he'd actually attacked the right guy. That guy that Artest hit will be laughing all the way to the bank. Now, after the next so called professional basketball player pushes another - we will see if it costs them 6 games. The actions that occurred during the game need to be separated from what happened in the stands. Ben wasn't in the stands, Ben was on the court - but Ron didn't want a piece of Ben after the foul. The actions on the court should have been mitigated by immediate removal of both Ron and Ben - the rest of the embarrassment would never have occurred. Why isn't that simply a rule in the NBA. If you cause a fight, immediate ejection AND immediate removal from the playing field. That is what should have happened - the rest wouldn't have happened and most of the players would be fined some money, miss a couple games - but not jeopardize their teams season. It just isn't fair to the Pacers fans.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

My revised look on this and resons why the commissioner went too far.

1. Back in 1996, the NBA claimed to have "set the standard" because then Houston Rockets player Vernon Maxwell was suspended 10 games for going into the stands and attacking a fan who was making fun of his dead child.

What makes this different then what Artest did other then the fact that Steven Jackson followed him into the stands and the other fans attacked Artest and Jackson and it got totally out of control. If the fans wouldn't have blindsided Artest's face with a haymaker instead of just try to get him seperated, maybe that would be a different story. Suspensions make sense....but the length is what I do not agree with.

2. According to NBA commish David Stern, he suspended Jermaine O'neal for punching that fan on the floor. Ok i understand that. But 25 games? A. The fan shouldn't have even been out on the floor. Most arena's make rules saying that fans who come out on the floor will be arrested and prosecuted for tresspassing. Clearly fans who come out onto the floor proves that the players are in danger, especially when that fan came running out and made a move towards Ron Artest.

Personally I dont blame them


Although Kudos to Mr. Technical Foul (Rasheed Wallace). I never expected he would be the Pistons player to be the peacemaker....shows that all bad boys have a good side


Now that all the suspensions are in place and the NBA Players Association will come to the rescue, I don't see why any of the players will serve the full suspensions (with exception of the 1 game suspension guys).

I think this is now a dead issue and there is no reason to discuss it any further.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

This disturbs me because fans are now going to think it's open season on athelets and they can say or do anything they please without any consequences for thier actions. Does anyone else have a problem with this?

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Ed - you really think this a new concept? People have been doing that for years - this is not new. It isn't right either - but, my point was that in todays litigation crazy country, any excuse for a lawsuit. How many times do you see folks go to court over accidental falls, or opportunities that shouldn't even be considered but are. Yep, it disturbs me that anyone would gain monetarily from this situation, but lets face it - you know its gonna happen. Let me tell ya about the time I was almost attacked by a Professional football player at the Silverdome - he was sure that I said something bad about his poor playing. This also was a case of mistaken identity. I used to have seats in Row 1 - Seat 1 and 2, at the 40 yard line behind the visitor bench. At the beginning of the 3rd quarter, some guy with the visiting teams jersey snuck down and sat in the row behind me - started giving his own team alot of guff (his own vulgar motivational speech about how pathetic they were playing) Must have hit a nerve with the player that turned around and threatened to rip my head off. I didn't say a word to him, I was shocked and was afraid for my life. The security guards were there in a second and luckily they saw the guy that was giving it to the opposing teams players and took that guy out. The player that screamed at me didn't say or do a thing - no apology, no nothing. Mistaken identity. The opponents QB (Trent Dilfer) also saw the entire thing that had happened and came over and apologized and gave me a set of wrist bands and some other stuff. I'll never forget how a person wrongly mistaken feels, and luckily I didn't get hit. I really don't know what I would have done - legally that is (if I had survived). So, as unfortunate as it is - there will be opportunities for people to sue others - some with merit, but many without.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Good.

I think that this is just and fair. The players have absolutely no business going into the stands. I don't care what any fan did to them, these players should know better. Fans and players are not equal during this situation. Were those fans idiots? Yes. Are the Pacer players fools? Absolutely. I think that it is good that Artest will lose $5 million for his foolish, idiodic reaction to a cup of ice being thrown at him.

Think twice about taking the side of the players position. They are paid an absurd amount of money to dribble a ball, bump in to other players, and put a ball through a hoop. The Pacers are ashamed, and they darn well better be. They have had chances to keep the "good guys" and they have let them go, over the years. What they have now are a core group of whiners. They should've moved Artest and kept Harrington at the end of last year.

Heck, give me $10 million a year, and you can throw cups of beer and ice on me all day long. Sheesh. These players sicken me.

This act shows what is wrong with sports. The athletes are spoiled, get too much attention, and are rewarded (with attention) for being fools. Spectators are stupid for paying gaudy prices to see this ridiculousness. In my opinion, the NBA stinks. I was a Pacers fan, but no more. The game is much better, from my spectator view at the college and high school level.

I hope Artest, Jackson and O'Neal get prosecuted. I also hope that the Palace and some idiot Detroit fans pay the price for allowing this to happen. Unfortuneately, some lawyers and these idiot fans are going to profit from this fiasco.

Andy B.

(former college and semi-pro athelete)

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Was Ben Wallace in the wrong? Absolutely, but even the NBA said in the head of the moment, especially in a rivalry as heated as this one, these things happen. Are a handfull of Detroit fans also to blame? No doubt, but don't go blaming Detroit fans in general. It's a shame that 100 or 200 fans in an arena of more than 22,000 can spoil some peoples' views of Detroit sports fans. But before I start, let me just say that I don't condone anything on the Detroit side of things.

The thing that I find kind of strange is that most of the national media left out the fact that Ron Artest was laying on the scorers' table with his legs spread toward the pistons with his hands cupped behind his head and a sly grin on his face. He even took a headset and started doing a radio interview....and this was before the game was even called! The game was technically still going on. I don't buy it for a second when people say that Artest removed himself from the altercation and someone just randomly threw a beer at him as he was sitting there being a little angel. He was doing his fair share of provoking. I saw that Shaq said that he would jump up into the stands too, but do you think that Shaq has the disregard for professionalism to lay down on the scorers' table? (even though it might not hold him anyways!)

I was proud of Rasheed Wallace for being one of the men trying and break this whole thing up, rather than provoke it. He has come a long way since his days in Atlanta and Portland.

Also, you can see former Bad Boy and current Pistons radio broadcaster Rick Mahorn in the stands trying to break things up as well.

I also heard that a majority of the fans involved were identified by Auburn Hills police, and Palace security has been stepped up to what they call playoff level for the rest of the season.

I just want to say, don't judge almost 5 million people (most of whome are Detroit sports fans) in Metro Detroit by 100 or so drunk guys at one Pistons game.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Good for the NBA. Jeez... Artest was an idiot for randomly attacking people in the stands. Sure he got hit in the head with a cup but he didn't even attack the person that hit him. He was just looking for a reason to attack someone.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

OMG!!!! NBA players acting like criminals? Say it isn’t so! Next thing you know they’ll be coming down with AIDs.

The NBA has done its very best over the years to ignore the fact that it’s really the other way around; criminals acting like basketball players? How could they ever have gotten that way? Could it be that, because they could bounce a ball and put it through a hoop, they never had to conjugate a verb, pay tuition, or actually pass a test in high school or college? What could be the reason that over 40% of NBA players have arrest records?

As for records, Artest can add the latest to his “how not to be a role model” resume:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=230103018
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0129/1500878.html
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns
http://espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0320/1526815.html

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

I would say the same for the fan who threw the cup. How was he NOT looking for a reason to fight?

Everyone snaps at some point, and that's just what happened. It's all over, those who are going to be punished are punished, and that's that. I think this is really a dead issue now.

Horrible Example of Non-GP
 

Frankly, I do not care at all who was a fault as much that it happened at all.

It was quite sad watching highlights of what happened. Anyone associated with FIRST who was watching could easily see why Gracious Professionalism is so important to the FIRST culture.

The saddest part was seeing the highlights of a poor little boy crying in the stands, frightened among the mayhem. What a horrible example for our youth.

Raul

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Why? If I got hit with a chair someone threw I would certainly sue. The one factor being that I didn't start the fight nor involved in it. Also, aparently the guy who had the cup thrown has had a very bad record.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

Sue for what, and who? I would most likely press charges against whoever threw the chair, but sue for what? And who? The Palace? If you build a wall around the players, you can't see. Well, hockey, has a plexi wall, but fans have still gone over, and players have used their sticks at fans.

The reaction that someone hurt me, I'm suing <i>is</i> a problem in America today. You have car accidents where the first reaction is calling a lawyer - I've seen it. A guy got rear ended by another car, first thing he did was call his lawyer. He was still on the phone with him when PD arrived and found an unconscious diabetic in the car behind him.

He was more concerned about how to go about getting money from someone then being concerned if they were ok.

The person who threw the chair needs help. They likely need help dealing with anger management, and taking them to court for all their worth is probably not the best way to help them deal with that.


Wetzel

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

I agree. I love college hoops. They're playing for love of the game, not because they're getting paid millions. You won't hear them whining about their salary or sponsors or any of the other BS the professional players pull.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

After reading this for a while I don't think we are on the same wavelength. The person who threw the chair was not a basketball player. It was some guy who decided to rip the chair up off the concrete ground and throw it. Plexiglass would have stoped nothing. Artest should not be sued nor anyone who actually was involved with the fighting.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

And then... NY Giants fans invented the "battery powered snowball."
Remember they knocked the camera guy off his boom?

Lots of season ticket holders got suspended.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

For those of you who may not have seen it this morning or heard, Ron Artest was interview live today on the Today Show. 10 minute interview for him to explain his part of the situation.

And for those of you who do not know, Ron Artest is not like many of the "other players" in the NBA who have criminal records or long spans of violence. (Ron Artest has no criminal record or has been in trouble with the law like the "fan" who threw the cup.) Ron Artest grew up in a very rough neighborhood in New York (I think) and had severe rage problems. He was recommended to play basketball to help him control himself. He is a very passionate and agressive player. He is a very good family guy and good with children away from the court, just gets into trouble and sometimes gets out of control.

He deserves to be suspened for games, but not for the rest of the season or forever. He tries really hard to have a positive attitude about everything.


Interview requires Internet Explorer and Windows Media Player.


Note: The NBA players union has filed their appeal for the suspensions of Ron Artest, Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal.

Re: NBA or WWE you decide...
 

And herein lies the problem with Mr. Artest, he lacks reposibility and regret for the incident. In fact, by the end of the interview you can tell he feels justified in what he did. I watched the whole 11 minute interview and never did he show any signs of remorse.

He then plugged his new rap cd; claiming it was about love. He was also wearing a hat and t-shirt from his record label. He plugged his new CD 3 times during the interview; more times than he showed regret. Incredibly untactful!

I don't even think I have to comment on this.

This seems to be the reason for his frustration, or you could say- justification, for what he did.

Accountability? He either feels as though he was disciplined, or he feels as though he shouldn't self incrimitae himself. Unfortunately for him, he doesn't come off as a guy where the elevator goes to the top floor so I'm guessing he feels he acted with discipline.

First Artest claims that he didn't want kids to see it and blames "you" [Matt Lauer, NBC, the media] for showing it.
Basically, he's saying to the kids that if you're disrespected that it's "okay" to go to war with someone. If someone disrespects you it warrants the penalty of death. This is all perfectly normal, as long as you move on and stay positive about you going to war with someone.

This whole experience has really showed me the importance of FIRST. Could you imagine some kid having Ron Artest as a role model? If Ron Artest is a role model, I'm Charles Manson.

Re: NBA or WWE - NEITHER!!!!
 

The Indiana teams should take advantage of the situation and turn their tragedy into something positive. I.E. “When life gives you lemons – make lemonade”

Go to the Pacers and ask them to pump up their tarnished image by doing something worthwhile – for a change! I.E., Sponsor FIRST!!!

With the money they save on Atsest’s salary alone, they can afford to enter every team in one more regional. Throw in Jackson, O’Neal, Johnson, and Miller and you can fund 724 new teams next year. If that’s not enough to start a team in every Indiana high school, I think the Pistons will be able to afford the difference.

WOW! What a screwed-up sense of priorities there are in America!