Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Dave actually said "Eat dessert first"...changes everything that you have said and all your thoughts that you didn't want to share.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

I still think he's talking about donuts.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Wow... my first post on speculations...

I want to know what the main #'s are going on... I'm hearing 5 and 4 being thrown around a lot... I'm assuming that means the # of teams involved in each alliance... which could make sense ESPECIALLY if the game is 3v3... but that would move the # of teams in the elim rounds down to 20, which i don't think they would do... But if it was 4 the regionals would need at least 32 teams... (and do all regionals have 32 teams???)

I'm going to stand firm on the 3 team alliance, but with the V shaped field theory and the 4 posts... I am imagining right now... a field where is almost an |_ shape that looks like a V w/ a 90* angle... the 4 posts being 2 on the points of the right angle (one near side one far side) |._ and then having one post in the middle of it on each end in front of the player station X yards out... *maybe a diagram coming???*

But also another theory of the "V" shall we call it... is the same |_ shaped field, but in the middle of the field... there is a /- in the middle of the field at the bend, kind of like a table top *like 2003's ramp but on a smaller scale* which connects the 2 parts of the field. The 4 posts would be in the same spot and they would be opposite scoring sides like 2003 once again, where you would have to put the "deserts" on the posts...

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Here goes my almost complete best guess:

I like Georges idea of the 4 posts to hang the donuts on.

So in keeping with the 2001 format, we all need to work against the clock to get the donuts hung, and these donuts will likely be red, blue, yellow and green inner tubes - or the posts are the different colors indicating "your" scoring location. This way you can affect your own score like 2001 with the colored balls. But there's also an objective. I think the 4 bots (4 bots, cuz there will only ever be 4 driver stations) work together to assemble something (don't think we've seen the hint on this yet).
I think all those fancy transmissions and defensive strategies are going on the shelf. I'm thinking good maneuverability, not muscle, when working as a team. I think we're grabbing inner tubes and hanging them on posts. I think these tubes are going to be the place to be selfish and up your individual score, like 2001. We're also going to need to move fast, and hit the button to get the time multipliers. I think these posts are going to be a painful height like last years bar - so amble, fast and long arms. The human players will be tossing these donuts on either your bot, or on the tall posts.
When looking at 2001's best teams, the designs all met a specific need and complimented each other. I think a game like this will call for a variety of designs such that we will be able to compliment each other. This objective is the key to our design, that can also allow us to grab the donuts without defeating the objective design. This will be our real challenge..... I'm sure that in this year, as we've had almost every year, we will be dragging a big mobile object around (or multiple) - possibly mobile posts. As usual there will be the place for the "box bot" with nothing more than a drive train, that can still be "in the game". Which supports the mobile objective.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

whoah wait!
if dave said "eat dessert first," and we normally eat dessert last, doesnt that mean that something we normally do last will be done first, not the other way around?

so, persay, taking from last years comp, we get a bunch of points if we start on the bar and then get down so that we're NOT on the bar at the end...

or, cuz i dont think autonomous will be at the end, you could go with this donut theory and say that we could be taking the donuts OFF the posts and putting em somewhere else... or on the bot maybe? a bunch of donut carrying bots...
hmmm
sounds interesting

~Stephanie

ps- and with the thought from Swampdude that there will still be "the 'box bot' with nothing more than a drive train, that can still be 'in the game'.", a V shaped field is unlikely. itd be harder for ppl to "wing it" on their bots.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Looking through here I notice no one has mentioned alliances of 4 with 2 competing (so 8 teams on the field at a time)... I be this is it.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

I'm not certain because I don't have access to private CD forums so maybe some exclusive members could confirm this...
Dave only made 1 post in a public forum that day.

Could that mean that the #4 and #1 are a clue? For instance, a game where 4 robots are on the field, but with no alliances. I would imagine this would necessarilly be everyone for themself but more like the bridge balancing year.

It's important to remember that the Isreal regional is a little whacky with only 11 teams. Which means the game must also work for them. Something to think about.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Twice put to the public "you design the game". Here were some responses that kind of match the current clues. Especially the last one.

2 honorable mentions:
1 - 2

But I think we have a winner:
Donut Discord

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Eat desserts first? Great... As you know desserts spelled backward is
"STRESSED" :ahh:

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

I'm tellin you people, its gonna be declare your score before the match, and like points off if you arent at the right score.

Also, the only important numbers are the first 3 consecutives: 3, 4, and 5. makes lots of people think of triagles, which means 3 teams on the feild at once. A one vs 2 game with the one having the choice of two seperate mobile goals, and the team of two, each team can only score in one of the mobile goals..

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

first is all about teamwork and friendship so to go back to individual vs individual would got against the spirit of FIRST. I think that we'll be seeing team playing for a long time (I've met some of my best FIRST friends by being in their alliance).

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

I think you are REALLY on to something.

Desserts/Donuts and Posts... this game has got it all.

In fact, you can make a perfect anaolgy with this one:
"Life is short. Eat dessert first." :: "Matches are short. Get to the donuts first."

There is always a fight for scoring objects, and it always helps to be first! This reminds me of the 2003 game, when IMHO, the match was almost always determined by who could get to the top of the ramp and push over the boxes first. Perhaps this means that autonomous mode WILL be first, and who ever gets to the donuts(dessert) first, will have an advantage for the rest of the match.

Going back against my earlier opinions, I think that probably the number speculation (based on the triple play by John Neun and the '4 is kind of like 5') isn't really all that valid because there is too much ambiguity associated with these numbers (odd isn't it -- ambiguous numbers) within this context. The 3's and the 5's could mean infinitley many things in this case, and I am not sure if there is enough solid evidence based on what Dave has said to argue the existence of specific elements of the game associated with 3 or 5.

I do think that there is solid evidence that the number 4 may play a large role in this game.
However, I do not think that the number 4 will play a role in alliances because it has been stated that only 3 teams will be winners of each regional. However, that doesn't mean that there won't be changes in the alliance system from last year...and again the ambiguity of these numbers factor in. Who knows what they might do?

I really like the idea of there being 4 posts to hang or place donuts on. This takes the evidence provided and draws a reasonable conclusion.

As I thought about the quote more (Hey! that was my fourth post of the day! Woohoo!), I was wondering if there might be a way to somehow "claim" these posts...for example, if you put your alliance's color donut on top, then you claim the points in that stack/post for your own. If, for example, there were a total of 4 posts on the field, if you were able to claim all four of them for your alliance...you might be saying "That was my fourth post of the match! Woohoo!" Also, trying to get donuts onto posts would also be a good way to challenge human players. It would almost be like playing the game "Ring Toss". I think that "Ring toss" would add a good human element.

Overall, I think it is really difficult to tell what Dave means by all of this, and in interpereting clues, we should be careful not to be lead astray by our own complex interperetations...in other words, we shouldn't be over thinking it.
We should probably avoid this: "The word 'dessert' has 7 letters, which, when multiplied by 4, equals 28, which is a multiple of 14. And when 5 is subtracted from 14, you get 9, which is the square of the number 3! That means that there will be 3 teams per alliance!"

Let's keep it simple...and keep on guessing. This is fun.

--Jaine

PS. I had a thought about what the donuts could be made of. I know that there has been some speculation about inner tubes; what about those 'floaties' that little kids wear around their waists before they know how to swim? Those are pretty easy to get a hold of and probably less expensive than inner tubes.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Picture a school playground on a field. Ya you know it would be cool. like a marry-go-round in the middle shaped like a donut, and playground balls bouncing every where. OOOO don't forget the tires also shaped like a donut. You guys I think I am on to something.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Bingo Jaine, you get a cookie. Whether this is the game or not, I don't think it matters if we nailed it on the head. Other than to have a little prior thought of it. The only way to make this knowledge worth while is if you could convince your whole team of it, and start brain storming now. Which likely will turn out a waste of time. Why risk it. But it's going to be interesting to look back on this thread and see how far we were off. This Ajunx guy did a good job coming up with this game. I like it.
I think the last donut on cancels out the ones below it, leaving whoever on top, and however many of that color down would count. Getting all the way across the field and on that pad will be a real pain in autonomous, I bet that won't happen too often. Considering all the collisions on the ramps during autonomous. Looks like the "box bots" could get the pucks close to the HP's for the donut toss, and then play a defense with the opponent pucks. Pulling those pucks over the ramps is quite a load. I can see some last minute bang ups keeping opponents from puck zone scores. Everyone will fight over the yellow donuts. I like how there's multiple ways to play this game.
Everyone will start autonomous, by dragging their goals across to the other side, then you'll see all these bots driving wildly all over the place hoping to hit the pressure pad (if they make it across). If they don't make it across, and they collide on the ramp, their timers will send them all over the ramp and off the field while it's hoping to hit the pad. Heh.
Then if you made it across, you can go for the donuts in the middle, first guy there will grab the yellows, and then hop on their puck.
Our old 1998 bot was a puck jumper, and would get it's belly on the puck, and then lift the rear wheels up at the last minute. That would be a good idea to be able to drive the puck around, and still be in scoring position at the last minute. I bet a lot of teams will drop a wheel like an outboard motor and drive that puck across while on it. I think a sickle shaped arm could scoop up these donuts from below, up over the pipe, and carry them like a torch to your puck, then invert the sickle to spill over the puck pipe. Just think how quick you could change the score by plopping a (your color) donut over a full rack of opponent yellows, and then pushing them out of the zone at the last minute (that's a valuable teammate).
Heh, I hope this is it, I'd like to see this game - looks fun and interesting.

edit: oops there are no ramps... yay!

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

personally, i dont believe that this is an actual hin, just something to occupy you guys, but heres something i dont think (maybe i just missed it) any of you have considered.

In John Neun, the normal 'V' might have been intentioanally left out. Why? because John ann Neun both hve 4 letters. If the V was in there, then it would offset the 2 sets of 4 letters.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Virus infected tacos and KK donuts.

Don't you'll remember that Mr. Lavery had said that the hint was something at the SMV? :rolleyes:

Anyway, that's what he said.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Space Station
Lift off 220 miles above the Earth at 17,500 mph to ride with the astronauts aboard the international space station. A collaboration of 16 nations, the international space station is the first step toward future exploration of Mars. Space Station is a story of challenges, setbacks and triumphs … and ultimately, the shared international victory of men and women whose dreams exceed the limits of life on this planet.


This is off of the website that LBK Rules provided. 16 Nations, here we go back to number “4” again. 4 alliance play at one time, 4 teams per alliance.


“Your mission: to explore the wonders of the Red Planet! Check out the solar system's largest volcano and a canyon as long as the continental United States. Did you know that a piece of Mars was found on Earth? How did it get here? Create a swirling dust storm like those seen on the fourth planet from the sun and learn about Martian weather conditions. Find out about the latest discoveries from NASA's orbiting spacecraft and landers as you operate a model rover.”

^ that is off the website too. does it give us more clue? Before i confuse myself more i shall end this post... :rolleyes:

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

have you noticed that Dave has been talking about baseball alot lately?

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=53

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...3&postcount=71

...anyone else find this interesting?

I'm wondering if maybe he was talking about John Neun the baseball player....

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

I think Dave saw people make a connection between John Neun and baseball, and has purposefully started to exploit that link.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

i Can Fully Assure that "Desserts" = Field Elements

If you have any interest to why im so sure, pm and ill tell you (Maybe youll make me unsure)

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Of course, it might just be that baseball is on Dave's mind right about now, because he is REALLY upset that the Washington DC government is about to completely screw up the first serious opportunity to bring baseball back to DC in the last 32 years, and he was getting all excited about getting season tickets, but now it looks like they will just be for one crummy season in RFK Stadium instead of a brand new facility that would be the envy of the baseball world...

... or maybe not.

-dave

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Alright. We are playing with baseballs. Teams will have a hard time getting them to the goals because they all collect in the center of the field because it is a slight V shape incline. The object is to remove all the baseballs making the "center gone" and place them in goals for 4 points each. But, "4 is not enough" If there are no baseballs left in the center "trough" of the field, one of the alliances gets a multiplier making them worth more.

When the center is gone, four is not enough.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Well, baseball and 4 would be the bases, and with the center gone, no pitchers mound, so maybe the human player has to throw something from one of the four bases. The bases would be at corners diagonal from each other, like a baseball diamond.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Yup. Maybe it will end up in Dulles. :)


Wetzel

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

If you search on DL's posts, you will see that this was not, in fact, his fourth post of the day, it was his only post of the day (12-03-04). I think this means the number four is significant. Not that you should find three other posts with clues.

"Looking to John Neun" could mean look at a picture of J. N. (as several have suggested) or to look up Johnny Neun, the baseball player (as others have suggested).

In order for Dave to have used an obscure picture on CD as a clue (say the number 5 on a pipe or the fact that J.N. is standing in front of a paper machine), he would either have to know that such a picture existed or he would have had to troll through the CD picture gallery for hours to find such a coincidence. So, I doubt that the CD picture is the referenced clue.

However, Johnny Neun, as a first baseman, completing an unassisted triple play for Detroit in the 1920's might be something that Dave would be familiar with. And, due to Dave's long time familiarity with CD, the coincidence of Johnny Neun's name with John Neun and John V. Neun would be expected. Hence, if Dave is pointing us toward the unassisted triple play, he would pick Johnny Neun instead of, say, Raphael Furcal, the most recent person to complete an unassisted triple play.

What is the unique feature of the unassisted triple play? One defender eliminates three offensive players.

This leads me to believe that there will be four safe zones (or bases). We will have one defender facing three opponents.

Combining this with the Championship eligibility criteria that there will be three (3) regional champions and Car Nack's prediction

leads me to believe that the 2v2 competition from the past few years will not be repeated in 2005.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

ditto.

i was thinking that maybe FIRST is taking its idea of "gracious professionalism" and its alliances to another level so that you dont want ANY of the other teams on the field to be broken or anything.. say, there are 4 teams on the field, and you have to work with team 2 to do such-n-such, team 3 to do something else, and team 4 for another task, so you can only win if you work with ALL the other robots.
this would be an interesting twist... :yikes:

~Stephanie

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Interesting concept. However, how would this be any different from 2001's 4v0 game where you had to work with all of the other robots on the field? With all of the robots working together, you have no defensive force on the field. And defense is what makes a game interesting.

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

well they could make it reali complicated (which wouldnt be too surprising...) and for the first half of the game, teams 1 and 2 and teams 3 and 4 would be "allied" and would have to do Task 1, and for the second half of the game, teams 1 and 3 and teams 2 and 4 would have to do Task 2. [then maybe teams 1 and 4 and teams 2 and 3 on task 3?]
but no time in between switching partners to work on robot, so if a robot you were against fell over, you'd be upset because you're allied w/ them the next section of the match.

~Stephanie

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

that would be kind of complicated to explain to my grandmother so I don't think FIRST would do it .. though I do like the idea ..

Re: No official FIRST game hint yet??
 

Just a tad of info here,
Speaking of numbers...
Check out this post
The KOP is supposedly made up of 5 parts this year...
There's your 5 again...
(hee hee)