Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Get ready for some more arm designs..

Could it really be this easy?

Pi
U
Me
Amethyst = (6 year anniversary stone)

=
PUMA
6 axis Robot designed for use in assembly, material handling, machine loading and other things

Of course, this is the non-obvious PUMA reference, the first one being the Sports company who made the official Yellow Size 5 soccer balls in 2002 for the FIRST Zone Zeal competition shown below.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Alright...here is my take...

With Amethist being of a purple color, two baseball players who performed unassisted triple plays, and Pi between you and me, they gave us quite a complex clue this year.

1. First Amethist colored glasses...I think this is gonna be a simplistic portion. Three teams on the field at once, Red, Blue, and Purple.

2. Baseball players are a given...Triple play means 3 teams. The question is will it be alliances or no? I dont think FIRST would want to get rid of alliances, but I am going to go out on a limb and say the unassisted portion of the triple play means there will be the triumphant return of 1 v 1 v 1 (as a FIRST history buff, I love the idea...but I dont know if I want FIRST without alliances)...or it could just mean that three teams per alliance have absolutely no ability to interact with each other.

3. Pi is associated with circles. I faintly remember hearing that IR sensors were going to be a necessity this year. I'm guessing that there is some form of circle in the middle of the field with IR helping guide you to it...probably because of a barrier which you can't see.

or....

We are about to see the return of Torroid Terror with IR sensors involved!

I can only hope ;)

-Andy Grady

P.S. Where are my footballs Dave?!?!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Thanks Ted Boucher for pointing out the Burns thing I cant believ I missed that....
Let me focus on season 8 shall we were it is strongly argued that Monty Burns is at his strongest strength compared to other seasons
During an opening couch scene of one such episode it is a direct parody of the previoulsy mentioned album cover, being very closly similar to the animation of it as scene in "The Making of Sgt. Pepper"
It is during this season too that Homer takes his trip after eatting Wax (need I say that several characters in the album cover are wax figures) On this trip lyrics from the Beatles son "I am a Walrus" are quoted
Also some believe that Barney's belch during the "trip" is a reference to the final chord in "A Day in the Life"

However my main point of season 8 is that the PYRAMID Homer climbs to see the coyote looks exactly like the one in "Yellow Submarine" now, maybe we to might need to climb the pyramid (previously stated by many as a field piece)

edit: Also I just had pointed out to me (thank you Justin) that in Season 12 (FIRST began in 1992 and this clue came out 12 years later) the Beatles make a cameo dressed in their Sgt. Peppers garb to recruit teens to join the army a.k.a. ALLIANCE!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Everyone seems to be ignoring the fact that this year is going to be called FIRST Frenzy: Something. Now what was unusual about last years game, in the context of all the others. All the elements were recycled. The kickballs, the big yellow ball, the goals, the bar: all from past years. Now look at the games that last years game didn't have anything in common with:

• Stack Attack
• Toroid Terror
• Hexagon Havoc

Remember that spotlight about one-one-one-one-one-one? Maybe that's what we'll have? 6 teams on a hexagonal feild! w00t!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

With all these interpretations of the clue, I still can't get beyond the between. I mean, with all the attention to grammar on these forums, and in the general community, I would say they would definitely notice using between for three items. Am I wrong here?

So.. "between Pi, You and Me," with Pi being one item, and "You and Me" being the second? Maybe that changes things a bit, and adds credit to the triple play ideas. I dunno.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Mu in lower case greek looks like a U
Me is John Neun speaking and Neun is like the greek letter Nu
and between these letters and Pi in the greek alphabet are both Xi and Omicron

Any ideas come from this?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Phrontist, the album cover you're talking about (and had an attachment for) is from The Beatles and the title of it is "Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band". There are 13 songs on the soundtrack:
1.-(The title)
2.-With a Little Help From my Friends
3.-Lucy in the sky of Diamonds
4.-Getting Better
5.-Fixing a Hole
6.-She's Leaving Home
7.-Being for the Benefit of Mr. Kite!
8.-Within You Without You
9.-When I'm Sixty-Four (64)
10.-Lovely Rita
11.-Good Morning Good Morning
12.(Title) Reprise
13. A Day in the Life

It looks like a lot of this album from the cover to the title of the songs could in fact be FIRST related. Good Lead Phrontist!

Now for sure, we're definitely having a Hexagonal field. FIRST has done it before, and they sure will do it again. Probably this time around.

(Sorry if this repeated anything)

-Joe

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Following this train of thought, you would have the barrier in the middle of the field from Stack Attack. That fits with the "something" preventing people from interacting with each other.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I just saw yellow submarine yesterday, and if I remember correctly it's a zigguratish pyrmaid, with multiple levels, like pyramids stacked atop one another. Oddly enough Amethyst crystals are essentially a bunch of pyramidal forms atop one another:

Taken from here

Maybe we'll get to climb up a ziggurat!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The greek symbol Xi, as referred to in Levin571's post, looks like this:
http://www.mathacademy.com/pr/prime/...greek/gr11.gif. This would support the barrier idea, especially the capital Xi.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Fixing a Hole - Hole in the center?
Lucy in the sky of Diamonds - Diamonds man! Diamonds! "Girl with kaliedescope eyes"! John lennon! Rose glasses! Muhahaha!
With a Little Help From my Friends - Alliances!

Oh, and I knew bloody well the album title.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I have serval theories:

• since both baseball player made unassited triple plays, maybe instead of having a timed autonomous mode, the autonomous mode will continue for 30 sec until certain condition are achieved
• maybe just free for all with three robots or three teams 2vs. 2 vs.2
• the purple glasses might mean if you look beyond the red & blue teams you might see something

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Another possible idea is that even though red and blue are against eachother they have to work together in order to complete one or more of the objectives on the field

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Ooooooh! Of course this ties into the big beatles conspiracy theory, with all it's hints. Remember, on Sgt. Pepper these lyrics appear:

Billy Shears was, of course, Ringo's stand in. But a lot of people thought he was william campbell, winner of the Paul look alike contest. He was a FAKE, or dare I say...

PLACEBO!

Oh yes, and that would mesh nicely with my last post! (The one about borrowing from previous years)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Sure.. Unnoficial FIRST Fraternity. Delta Omicron Xi. DOX
Freaky...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

GASP!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Can you clarify the link to your last post?

------

I wonder if the FIRST game designers look through our speculative posts and have a fit of laughter.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

What if the actual drivers station wall was purple...?

...if there are certain objects on the playing field that were purple, they would then be difficult to see.

hmm... very interesting indeed.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

i mean this Beatles conspiracy does kinda hold up look at last years game hint Led Zeplin lyrics

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

"pi, you and me" maybe something like one team vs another team vs like a FIRST made robot?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Look through the posts - Yes.

Fit of laughter? Idk.. maybe?

All this guessing is making me want to ask just one simple question.

Dave, how is that animation coming along? :D
Are you spending a 3rd straight winter break behind the screen of a computer running 3D Studio Max making some more funny robots do things that defy gravity?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

this is interesting...

http://www.waleapparatus.com/details/11_2365.asp

ACE (Amethyst Contrast Enhancer) glass can be used to "optimize the readability" of television displays under high ambient light conditions.

The banner sensors were susceptible to malfunction due to ambient light.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't use 3D Studio Max, because I refuse to use a PC. It's all done with Lightwave on a Mac.

-dave

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

also another thought... Maybe when they say PI, they mean something along the lines of a circle... like a circular field...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Ah, I didn't even consider the three elements in that quote. That does seem to indicate 3 players on the field, and I think its definitley possible for FIRST to make the 6 (well probably 12 for spares) robots neccesary.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Most def. We know Dave Lavery looks on the forums. If I was someone high up in FIRST and knew what was going on, I'd be reading this myself and laughing up a storm.


EDIT: And Dave himself proves my point between the time that I started writing this post, and the time that I hit submit . . .

Good luck finishing it up, Dave. Last year's animation was absolutely awesome ^_^

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Just to reinforce the baseball interpretation, most of Dave's recent posts, at least in the YMTC threads, have started with baseball analogies.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

My dad has 832 songs by the Beatles on iTunes and owns every single beatles album released in the US and the UK. Interesting.....

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

my vote is the hexagonal field

Crystal system: Hexagonal-R; 32 (trigonal-trapezohedral)
is the structural shape of amethyst as per
http://www.mineralminers.com/html/ameminfo.htm

based on the nature of First, i dont think they would do away with the teamwork. While 3 vs 3 would make staging a bit more hectic, it woud make the days run faster, in theory

just my $.02

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I thought I had caught Dave pirating music. but he owns them so I guess he's off the hook..

Until next time dave does something of legal "blur",
Tom

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread (Stolen bases?????)
 

They both also had stolen base records a few years apart....I don't know if this means anything.

Check out:
http://www.ilbaseball.com/sb_rec.html

-Quentin
:ahh:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Perhaps if you play the game backwards, it plays another clue? (can you even do that with iTunes?)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

what about the game objects being baseballs and not kickballs or boxes?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

well a slice of pie (pi) forms a triangle, like a pyramid!

OK.... now that I got that off my back, I see two interpretations for the word between, one being between as something in the middle of these three things, or between as something in common.

my guess that the between refers to something in common, in this case, three. I do not think that a three on three alliance is conceivable because of all the logistic problems talked about in the the center is out topic. Saying that, I think that the three will be something to do with scoring objects, possibly three different types of things to score, or three places to score.

Also during the kickoff, Dave mentioned that the IR sensors weren't necessary this year (first Frenzy), but not the next (this 2005 season). I can imagine that the autonomous mode will be extremely important, possibly having the capability to score points during autonomous mode

just my $.02

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

But didnt robots score points during past two year's Autonomous mode. 2003 (stack attack) robots who broke the wall had boxes in thier zone after the end of autonomous mode. Past season 2004 (FIRST frenzy) team 190 hung during autonomous (50 points).

Baseballs, i am not really supporting that idea, (this might sound crazy, cause i dont think FIRST will make a game to throw baseballs around unless the whole field is in a cage and all the drivers and human players are wearing helmets and gaurds) i am thinking about safety. what if a robot has the capibility of throw the ball somewhere? wouldnt that be a safety issue?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I hope AUTO mode isn't going to be extremely important... For the passed years our robot has done next to nothing in AUTO mode... We try so hard to get it right but we just beat our robot during the comps and everything gets off... Like we don't go straight or whatever... OH NO!!!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Fin, I think what he meant was that you could only get these points during autonomous, and at no other time during the match. The past two years, you could score those points at any point during the match. Maybe now, you have one shot to do it in autonomous and thats it.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Jeez, I'm having some difficulty compiling all of these ideas into my mind.

My theory lies with the hexagon field and a ziggurat shape center.

Somehow IR beacon(s) are going to allow a robot to guide itself to a scoring opportunity or to a prominent location on the field.

I'm having problems with the teams or no teams issue. I don't think FIRST will easily abandon alliances. However, unless a large field is invented, having six robots on the playing field at once could be problematic. I foresee mass destruction if the competition is as aggressive as last year. :ahh:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I HIGHLY doubt that FIRST would make the field larger than is usually is. Regional locations like UTC can't take a field that is much larger than the normal field and I am sure other locations have the same problem .

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I simply meant that it would make sense, if they were borrowing from previous years, to bring back the placebo.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Okay then... I'm now more confident about there being three teams on the field. :)



Now just to start theorizing on drivetrain options...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

FIRST wouldn't do that to us. only one shot to score points (autonomous), NO WAY. seeing all the problems teams had with autonomous previous years, i dont think we will see this kind of day (score only during autonomous) anytime soon.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think the field will stay the same, even though a lot of people say it will be a hexxagon shape. With the same field as the past few years, FIRST could have three or four teams on each side of the field at a time. I think FIRST will have a 3 v 3 setup, with three teams on each side. In the middle of the field the robots might have to hit an IR beacon for drive teams to drive robots around.

Just my $.02 after thinking about this for awhile.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I tend to agree here...Most likely 3 of one thing or 3 different ways to score


And the IR beacons are very likely to be in some twisted way necessary in this years game. The hexagonal field and 6 teams at a time seem a little bit to big of a change to be realistic.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't know... I think the idea is almost logical. It wouldn't have to be major points like the fifty we could earn for the bar last year, but maybe a solid 10-20 points for having the ability to accomplish something during that short time period would be good.

Besides, the only reason nobody works harder on their autonomous programming is because they havent been given a significant reason to.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

You're guess is as good as mine.... :ahh:

The only question I have is:

No early BOM this year?

Getting an early Bill of Materials is much better way for me to come up with ideas/clues!

Keep on guessing; I guess that is the only thing we can do until Jan 8th ;)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't think that a field change is out of the question. Certainly it'd be expensive, but didn't FIRST just raise first regional registration cost this year by $1000? Multiply that by 1,000-ish teams...

Many current field components could still be used over, such as barriers, parts of the player station setups, carpet, IRs, etc.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

1,000,000... That's a good chunk of change...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Pi - if spelled pie is round - maybe a round field.
Combine Red and Blue (the color of the teams of FIRST) and you get purple - or the color of amethyst.

3 sets of teams on a circular field.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

How long have the size limitations of the bot been the same? If they were to keep the field size the same, and make the challenge less complicated than last year (as this past year's challenege was WAY more complicated than Stack Attack) then they would keep the field size the same, shrink the robots down a smidge, and use 3 v 3 aliances.

Do I think that will happen? No. But I think it's possible.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

There was a George Burns who was a famous comedian (with Gracie Allan) who lived to be about 110.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

hmm...
John Neun and George Burns were both first basemen. In fact, they were the only first basemen to ever pull off an unassisted triple play.

I think that there are 12 other players that have made unnassisted triple plays. Why these two people and not any of the others? Is it because they were both first basemen?

...does this mean anything?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

What about the time limit increasing to 3 minutes?????

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

That could be possible... :confused:
If it was 3 vs 3 then that would increase the # of team per match which would decrase the time spent in matches. This could lead to more time for each match.

Just a guess but, I dont know. My head hurts. :ahh:

David

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't see a time limit increase. I can see 2x2x2 or 3x3. If 2x2x2 then you could have red and blue scoring objects and the third team would have to score equal of red and blue + purple. Autonomous mode at the beginning gives you your team color. Need to use some sort of sensors to get there. Maybe 50 point bonus at start if autonomous is completed. :confused:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Great clue - very cryptic, I love it!
Me - It just sealed the deal for me. I'm sticking with the Beatles connection, between John and George is Ringo! Looks like its either a "ring toss" game or maybe we put something through a ring to score. Okay - how about we get to toss "pies" through a "ring"-o at Dave! Just kidding - have fun with the clue. I'm serious about "rings".

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

One aspect of the pre-1999 game I don't expect to return is the "two strikes and you're out" format. For those who haven't been around FIRST that long, in '98 and before, there were "seeding matches" that determined where the teams were placed in the matching chart, but the actual competition was double elimination, with three teams per match. There was one winner and two losers per match, so it worked out that nearly half of the teams were eliminated after two matches. From the quarter finals onward, the matches were one on one with a best of three match format in each round.

Winning under the old system was really, really good, as I had the good fortune to experience with TechnoKats in '98, but there were way too many teams who put in all that effort, only to be eliminated after two matches.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

They would never increase the time in my opinion... Time is already strapped at competitions... Unless.................THEY ADDED IN A WENSDAY FOR COMPETITION!!! hahaha but that wouldn't happen... Wishful thinking... But like Red vs Blue vs Purple? I doubt it... They would keep it Red vs Blue vs White (the colors of first) like it use to be when it was 1 vs 1 vs 1...

Totally off topic: I was thinking how crazy it would be if FIRST made us put video camera's on our robots and made us go in tunnels and such... That wouldn't happen either but it would be cool...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

OK how's this:

2 hexagonal fields
If you take the current 48' long playing field, plus the length of the drivers stations and bisect it - you could fit 2 hexagon fields in that same space.
NOTE: these 2 fields from above would look like Hexagonal sunglasses.

These 2 fields are run simultaneously. On each field are 3 teams competing against the other fields 3 teams, hence 6 teams running at once. Each field has teams working together hence the amethyst (purple) blue red mix.

In "between" these 2 fields are the drivers stations "you and me". I guess 3 stations facing the center on each field.

We are assembling a "pi" (pie) against the clock and the other field. 3 wedge pieces, then doing something else, but all this against the clock, we have to hit a button to stop the timer to indicate the task is complete, and "we" beat the other field "you". Drivers are back to back, going as fast as they can.

We're going to be building smaller bots this year. Maybe that's why we're getting less motors.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

If one were to don amethyst colored glasses, would one be able to see IR beams? ;)

Also, when scoring baseball, first base is position number three.

My thoughts.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

hmm... I'm not sure... I see what you're saying... But I think when they say Pi they are referring to cirlces or 3.14............... Or how about like 2 vs 2... One red team and one blue team per field maybe?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

IR is back defiantly Dave said that in his speech at nationals. IR is going to be big for sure. The Multiplier is back defiantly. It could be like a 3x (maybe). First will not get rid of alliances. There will be two or three team alliances. We wont go back to 1v1v1 because we have so many teams this would simply take too long. First will only increase the number of teams on the field if they were to change it. There is a good possibility that there will be baseballs on the field, and something in the middle of the field that is hard to see.

Some important quotes

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

No more drunken auto balance codes, or teams falling over trying to climb a bar.
The grammer of the riddle needs to better taken apart.
Follow the Beatles.

• The field will be flat

Wetzel

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Well I still think the "life is short, eat dessert first" is a hint. It just didn't get officialized. So I'm sticking with pie :D
so we want to be the first the "eat the pie"

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Oh, automode is going to be super important! Dave has said that straight out. Well, straight by dave standards.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Here is what I think:

I can see FIRST taking elements from previous years, and they did say that The IR beacon thingy would be used more ofen.

The playing field being a baseball field would be so cool. Maybe you have to pitch the ball to your partner and they have to hit the ball. Then the opposing team has to find your ball with the IR Beacon and locate it before you get to thrid base. Just a random thought.

The Beatles idea is really intresting and that the clues do go hand in hand with one of their album covers.

Who knows what will happen? All the answers to our questions will come out on Jan. 8th!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

exactly, I think it would be great to have some points that could only be scored in autonomous mode. Other greater values could be gained during the regular time. Oh, and our team had plenty of troubles during autonomous mode during stack attack. At times we had to purposefully incur a penalty that would disable our autonomous mode because we had no way to turn our autonomous off.

I love the idea that alliances are picked during autonomous, this makes teams think on their feet, and it makes autonomous important, but not extremely vital to teams that don't have a successful autonomous mode

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

i must have missed something there... why do you think the field is flat...


and phrontist- looks like we are gonna be pulling all nighters this year to work with the AUTO mode... hmmmmmmmmm... This is gonna be craaaaaaaaaaaaazy...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Sorry I don't know that much about baseball can someone tell me what unassisted triple play means.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Finally! Robots are, by definition, primarily autonomus.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

In a single play one person makes all three outs in a single inning of baseball.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

True, but reducing the driving part of the competition significantly decreases overall excitement and public interest.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Wow thats crazy and you say that only 12 ppl have ever done that.
hmp.. I think we are on to something.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I fully agree with you... Though AUTO mode is fun (especially when you have a working one), it takes a lot of chance for great driver plays which really attract the crowd...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

No, not a chance. Our eyes can't see in the IR range, and adding filters wouldn't help matters.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

this is going to be a looooooooooooooooooooooooong nine days... I can't wait to find out the game... I hope the human player is as much as involved as it was last year...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The problem with switching teams is that then, who wins?? Like, how do you determine what the winning final alliance?? Its just not reasonable

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Sorry if someone already said this, but there's plenty of room for more feilds or bigger feilds in atlanta, i think they could keep the same number of matches per team

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The inital letters is Pi, You, and Me, which are all capitalized in the clue, are PYM. PYM clearly stands for pyramid. Amethyst is a pyramid. Coincidence?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I'm just going to throw out what went through my mind reading everything...

Amethyst colored glasses, are a rose/purpleish color. Now while yes John Lennen wore the rose colored glasses, what about Jimi Hendrix. Purple Haze... Hendrix was born in 1942 and died in 1970, and that is 28 years, but he died at 27, let's not look at that. 2 more years he would have been 30, following in our "3" pattern. For the past 2 years there has been autonomous operation in FIRST, and it was for 15 seconds. 2+28=30, so maybe 30 seconds of auton. That was just off the wall and completely random...

Next, both Burns and Nuen played at one point for the Red Stockings. On a technicallity... In the 1870s and 1880s the Boston Braves were called the Boston Red Stockings, but not as the Sox we know today. Burns played in 1928 and 29, and Nuen played in 30 and 31. Now the Boston Braves team was formed in 1871 as a National Association club, and in 1876 they joined the National League. The Boston Braves had many nicknames, prior to 1912 when they were offocially titeled the Boston Braves, they were called the Boston Red Stockings. They were in Boston as the Boston Braves from 1912 to 1952, then off to Milwaukee from 53 to 65, then on to Atlanta, where our Championship game is held. Right now the Atlanta Braves are the oldest continuosly operating sports franchise in North America, at 133 years. There is the number 3 again, and they moved to Atl in 53. In 1935 Babe Ruth wanted to become the Manager but it was given to Bob Quinn. The Braves have won 15 division championships, 21 pennant titles, and only 3 World Serries Championships, but have been in the world serries for the past 13 years. And if memory serves correct there are 3 "Braves" farm teams, yes I know there are more farm teams than 3 that the Atl. Braves use but I know of only 3 that carry the title of Braves. A lot of 3 in there... This is my over-justification of the possible importance of the number 3. And I'm an over the top braves fan...

Now between Pi and me and you. We usually think of Pi as just 3.14, let's just look at the digits 314. Now let's look at Burns and Nuen, let's look really closely. They both played on a Boston based team. The Boston Braves are National League, the Boston Red Sox are American League. 2 teams different divisions, same town... Now a really close look at 314. I might be going for a strech, but this is the big thing in common between Pi, me and you. When Neun was on the Braves 31' that was his last year for playing for the Braves. One of his team mates was Earl Sheely. Sheely had been in the Majors for 9 years, and this was his final year. Now to Burns and Pi. Burns played for the Boston Red Sox in for his second and final year in Boston in 1930, one of his team mates was Mike Menosky. This was Menosky's 9th and final year of playing in the majors. So we come to Earl Sheely and Mike Menosky, and what the devil do they have in common with Pi??? Both in their final year of playing in the majors, both had a slugging average of .314, the same numerals as in what we shorten Pi to. Now just to throw in the formula for slugging average... In baseball statistics, slugging percentage (SLG) is a measure of the power of a hitter. It is calculated as total bases divided by at bats. Total bases can be calculated from commonly used baseball statistics by using the formula TB = 1B + (2*2B) + (3*3B) + (4*HR).

The thing about purple haze is just to prove a point, I don't think the Beatles are really all important this year, or I could be totally wrong. 3 is an important number, and we shouldn't shorten Pi to just 3. Pi and 3 are seperate but both important to the play of this year, and somehow we will have a "Slugging Average" this year, and something about 2 teams in the same city in different divisions of some sort... Take what you want, I just looked a little closer.

Ivey

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I do believe:

1) We'll definitely have IR beacons, very possibly moving this year.

2) Auto mode will exist, and be very important.

3) There will be an end of round ritual to perform, or position to be in for more points.

4) The number of teams/regional and the total regional time is similar to last year. Therefore, the time/round probably CAN'T increase, unless they increase the number of robots "processed" per round, or reduce total rounds played per team, which would cause complaints (especially considering the cost increase).

5) Similarly, they can't REDUCE the number of robots processed per round from four, without potentially causing timing problems. SO... I predict we'll still see alliances of some kind. If the "four is not enough" clue is valid, I assume this hint implies we'll probably have SIX robots on the field, in either a 3 vs 3 situation on a nice simple rectangular field, or 2 vs 2 vs 2 on a hexagonal field.

6) Note that one variable that is NOT constrained and MAY change is the ratio of Auto to Manual time! THAT could be interesting!

7) Could the "Pi between you and me" have something to do with the HP's role??? How about the HP wearing funny glasses and ADVISING the drivers about the location of an IR beacon that is not visible to them???

8) A hexagonal field is possible with decent viewing. Viewing isn't a problem if the third team is directly opposite the viewing side.

9) In addition to hinting at the number three, *I* interpret all of the triple play references could POSSIBLY mean that some ritual involving dashing between locations may be involved.

10) The LED Robot Active Blinkers issued last year are simply Blue and Red LED drivers, with ONLY two signal lines. If you drive BOTH at the same time, you generate a crude "purple". Therefore, there MAY be a three single or alliance situation given the 2004 IFI hardware, but no more than that. All may change though if they issue a new RAB, revert to the Gumball, or change the Robot Controller, but I can't imagine IFI would redesign the RC again so soon if they didn't have to, and though the RABs were not very noticeable, I'm guessing they'll use it again as people complained about the gumballs a lot. If *I* were at IFI, I'd want to milk the 2004 RC for at least a few more years to recover the R&D costs on it!

11) Carpeting comes in 12 foot wide rolls. Therefore, the EASIEST field dimensions to implement (without trimming) is a rectangular one, with width roughly equal to 12*N, by any length. 24' x N' across has held true for the last several seasons. If a hexagonal field IS used, I predict the size will be a multiple of 12' across between opposite flat sides.

Bottom line prediction:

Given the current IFI and field hardware, I guess the SIMPLEST interpretation is a 3 vs 3 alliance game, on a standard 24' (or 36'?) wide rectangular field, or a hex as spec'd in (11). Auto Mode will be important, moving IR beacons may be there, something weird or missing will be the center of the field, running BETWEEN places will be required, and some kind of ritual or position must be performed at the end for more points, as before.

BTW... What HASN'T happened yet but IMHO would be COOL, would be to have an alliance with one or more of the robots predesignated as having to do something DIFFERENT than the other(s) so that handoffs, etc. between robots may be REQUIRED. Designating who does what tasks may be done by the alliances. If an alliance robot fails, one robot may do more tasks.

However, I see nothing other than the fact that John and George were "unusual" to hint at distinct tasking this year. <darn>

General Notes:
To Kit - George Burns the comedian/actor lived to be 100 years old, not 110.
To Swampdude - Why do you say we're getting less motors? Did you hear something? Please tell!

- Keith Mc.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

WHAT IF....It were a hexagonal field with 2 alliances (3 teams each)...using baseballs as field objects and there is a circular barrier or goal in the middle? One alliance being the red alliance and the other blue (red+blue=amethyst). Just a thought...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Wait though, there are a lot of reason's it's realted to the beatles!

• The Rose Glasses - Lennon had them
• The names - John and George!
• George Burns - Comedian, whose only "acting" role ever was in Sgt. Pepper Movie
• Dave Likes Rock n' Roll

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Has anyone noticed that it should be "Pi, you and I"?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

More evidence that the PYraMid acronym is deliberate!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think its to keep the rhyme scheme:

Look closely and you will see
Something between Pi, You and Me."

'See' and 'me' rhyme.

I dont know if it has anything to do with the game clue however.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

My grammar skills aren't that great but shouldn't it be "Pi you and me"??? And something tells me purple, go with purple, go with Hendrix. Something there, something in Purple Haze, and baseball. I don't know why, I love the Beatles I have original copies of the Srg. Pepper's Lonely Heart Band and so many others, but something just doesn't "click" with it to me. I feel that baseball, and Mike Menosky has something to do with it, he went to Indiana University of Pennsylvania, and from tracking the .314 SLG he was the only one of the 4 baseball players that I mentioned that went to college... I don't know but it seems as if baseball plays a more important role than most of us here are thinking.
Ivey

George Burns the comedian had another real acting role in 1939, in the movie Honolulu, he played Joe Duffy.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

16 sided field...now dats crazy.

Maybe we might lose the alliances this year...or maybe you have alliances of three teams and only 1 robot is on the field at a time, but the pyramid idea is just as crazy as my 16 sided field idea too, if they were going for pyramid, how would you make it 3d? would you have to have something that can also climb up the side of it and there's something at the top of it all that you have to reach, and maybe in your alliances, each robot has to work together to reach the top, and maybe the field is an upside down V to look like a mountain.

So maybe we might not do pyramid field, but hexagon field and just one robot in the field at a time from the 3-robot alliance.


Then again...I might totally be off, so ya

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

What if your robot has to pick up the baseballs and collect it all in the middle and the number of balls your robot has has to be between 5 and 100 in order to win and the number that is closest to the average, 52.5, or 53, will get higher points.

Then again, we might all be goin totally off course on this clue and it might be as simple as the amethyst colored field being just a hexagon, alliances of 3 teams each, and your robot has to pick up a pie and place it between you and someone else.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

After about page 8 or 9, I ran out of time for this thread (have other things to do)...but I do have an idea that I didn't see in the posts I read:
What if a robot plays an unassisted triple play somehow in the game (something that the robot does without his alliance partner) and when it does, that team gets the red+blue score.

Edit: I would also like to point out a similarity between John and George: They were both first (FIRST?) baseman

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Its something with a Golden Mean, that would explain the Pi, you and me

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Sorry.. but you are wrong!

http://imdb.com/name/nm0122675/?fr=c2l0ZT1kZnxteD0yMHxzZz0xfGxtPTIwMHx0dD1vbnxwbj 0wfHE9R2VvcmdlIEJ1cm5zfGh0bWw9MXxubT1vbg__;fc=1;ft =20;fm=1

He was an actor in many movies. Sgt. Pepper Movie was not his only "acting" role as you put it.

In fact, in a memorable role, he played God in the "Oh God" movies.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Hmmm... I'm sorry, I meant first acting role. Not only. This is based on a quote by him found on wikipedia.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Here we go, quick grammar lesson. It only has to be "you and I" when a verb follows, or has this group of people doing something. For example, it can't be "you and me went to the store" because "me went" isn't grammatically correct. Now, because this John and George aren't doing something, it's okay. I hope you guys understand, because I'm too lazy to explain better.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Another thing to think about is that Amethyst lenses are often used to enhance color discrimination in optical systems.

This COULD imply either:

- The Human Player has the role of wearing glasses to "see something" the driver's can't, and try to ADVISE them (now wouldn't THAT be cool?? ...especially if the thing they see is CHANGING during the round...);

- or something like a color sensor may be included in the KOP to discriminate
between things during Auto Mode.

IMHO, either one would be a neat innovation.

- Keith McClary

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

But doesn't everyone in it have to wear safety glasses too? so maybe every1 would have to wear the same glasses that they would see the 'special thing'.

But ya, your idea would be an interesting addition to make game play more challenging, would be like having to lead a blind man around.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Its simple. PI can symbolise parenthood (Progonos or something like that...) So John Neun was proposing to George Burns. The fact that he was wearing purple glasses only helps my case.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Not if the lenses were "clip-on", or BE safety glasses you use INSTEAD of your own.

- Keith

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

That sounds more like "beer goggles" to me... ;)

- Keith

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I can definitely also see the pyramid association, if we continue with the baseball reference. Pi is in reference to a circle, and a base is a diamond like shape.

That six sided object, as always, seems to be coming back to mind.

Also, what about Dave Lavery and his liking, along with Dean, of e^i*pi? Isn't e somewhere between 1 and 3?

Also, there is a quote from Cliff Pickover, "Somewhere inside the digits of pi is a representation for all of us -- the atomic coordinates of all our atoms, our genetic code, all our thoughts, all our memories. Given this fact, all of us are alive, and hopefully happy, in pi. Pi makes us live forever. We all lead virtual lives in pi. We are immortal." In the documented discussion of that quote, Cliff says one of his friends from IBM said, "If the binary representation of pi is interpreted as a program in some computer language, perhaps it encodes a simulation of the universe that includes itself, you and me... or maybe it is a movie of your live encoded in some yet-to-be-discovered version of MPEG..."