Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me.'"

There is another baseball player hidden in this clue. From 1920 until 1937 there was a player named "Pie" Traynor who played for the Pittsburgh Pirates. It just so happens he played third base. (Yet another 3?!?)

So if John Neun said to George Burns 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me', what could that mean? Well, between first base and third base you have second base. Three bases (or three player stations) could mean either three teams or three alliances of two teams. Any further thoughts on Pie Traynor?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Where did this thread go wrong?

If you look at the greek alphabet Pi falls directly between Mu (M, Me) and Upsilon (Y, You). There are 3 letters between the first 2 and 3 letters between the last 2.

I am sure this has nothing to do with anything but it has to be better than "God" and J(V)N getting hitched because of a few too many.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

"Pi, you and me"

In radians, Pi is half a circle, or 180 degrees. Perhaps it is referring to the fact that there may be something with an IR beacon, and the alliance drivers or their respective robots will be in opposite sides.

I also think this center structure will be a pyramid of sorts... But, that could be just me...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Somehow this backs the pyramid theory...

http://www.math.washington.edu/~greenber/PiPyr.html

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Well one thing that i havent noticed yet is the simple idea that Pi is infinite(to our knowledge so far). Might the game have something to do with an infinite score or something of the sort.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Another possibility though not sure how it could work in is the pitchers mound is between first and third.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

As is second base.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

It seems to me that everyone is looking to far into the clue. I doubt all the details of the game are compressed into 25 words. I think the clue possible refers to a circle inscribed into a triangle.

What was last year's clue? How related was it to the actual game?

Another note: Why is the time on this website an hour faster than EST?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

While reading the hint, I noticed something in the way the comma was used.
Normally, when referring to three items in a list, the writer would write it as such, "Pi, You, and Me" With another comma separating You + and.

But in the hint, the comma implies that the speaker is saying that "You and Me" (John Neun and George Burns) will see something between Pi.

I have no clue if that made much sense to anyone else, but that's another thing I got out of this hint. :p
There must be some significance in that.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

What if what is seen between Pi (or a round field) IS you and me? And the driver's station would be in the middle of said round field, creating a donut-like shape?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

How I read it, George Burns would see something between pi. And that something would be "You and Me," ie. George Burns and John Neun. It would go along with the simulated universe talked about in the previous quote, the FLL challenge (which has, historically, had a bit of a relation to the FIRST game), and that "...the center is out" quote mentioned in an earlier thread. I mean, wasn't there a CD involved with the FLL No Limits challenge?

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle:

"Look closely and you will see
something between Pi,
You and Me."

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

With our logics, it makes a little misconstrued sense. :D
I like it.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Vmax = 10 ft/sec

Yes, there are two paths you can go by
But in the long run
There's still time to change the road you're on."

The proceeding was the clue from last year. The max velocity of the arm to grab the bar wasn't so encrypted. Last year people noticed the quote was from a Led Zeppelin song. So maybe the Beatles idea isn't so far off.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

No, since infinity is a concept, not a number. It'd be hard to calculate points :)

I'm going to forward this clue to Robert Langdon. I'm all thought out.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

How would people see? It'd be way too cluttered.

Though it'd be interesting, I don't think it'd be fun for the drivers at all.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Whoa that'd actually be a really cool game. But then what about a hexagon? or howabout a hexagon shaped field, and then there is a hole in the middle of it that is used for the driver stations. That might be why they asked for more money this year because that sounds more expensive.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

[quote=Yan Wang]No, since infinity is a concept, not a number. It'd be hard to calculate points :) [quote]

Sorry, that was a bit confusing before, i mean like an infinite amount of times to score an object. Say passing an object from zone to zone scores you points, as many times as you can do so.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

like a lot of peopel before me have said already, it seems that John Neun is saying the BOTH of them will see something between Pi. What, I can't tell you. But has anyone solved this riddle? Or looked on google for the answer?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

when i was reading your posts i thought you might start out as two teams (red and blue) then in the middle you combine to form one team (Amethyst) and then score together.

just a thought

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

What bothers me is the fact that You and Me are capitalized. Capitalized pronouns usually refers to God. Something between Pi and God? I think they made a movie about that, but I never saw it so I dont know. That would be cool though.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Call me dumb, but can you clarify how this hinted at last year's game? I must say, I'm rather baffled. I could see it more for Stack Attack than FIRST Frenzy, but I think understanding last year's connections (or if there's some pattern with clues from previous years?) will help us determine where we're running wild with the clue. Thanks!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

There could be a middle area of the field were both aliances can score, but maybe the points will only count for the aliance that ends the match controling that part of the field, which would be the center. Maybe You and Me are the aliances in the middle of a circular Amethyst area.

Is an idea that came up to me when i read what you said Kev. :confused:

I also think that it would help if we could find the connections of the hints to the game in past years.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

i like that... that would be crazy... kinda like zone zeal... both teams could score the points but whoever had the goal in their zone at the end got the points... that would be interesting...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

OK.. I am going to break this down..

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses" …. This sounds like they are both on the same alliance at a competition. If each alliance has a different colored pair of glasses.


"Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me." Add this with this….

You get that one on them is on one half of the circle, and one is on the other side of the circle. So, basically breaking the alliance up on the field. Between them is some thing that they have to look closely at, and I assume that this will be a major field element. This could be a IR game object that they would have to find and then carefully manipulate.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

hmm... thats interesting... but now that i think of it i agree that that comma is bothering me... it sounds like you and me are between Pi... So maybe like you start inside something with the other team... hmm...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

just as a thought, and seeing that there hasn't been an early BOM list. maybe someone could ask around at home centers around FIRST's HQ and see if they've gotten a large order or specific things from first. if just a way to see what might be included on the field :)

I would guess FIRST wouldn't be switching away from alliances but to get the larger number of teams using more per match would require more teams per field.

But I guess after 15 pages people start to repeat things....

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Maybe what that comma is trying to tell us is that You and Me are in between Pi, so Pi is half of a circle so the team players could be in the middle of the field, they would be in the semicircle. So red aliance would be in Quadrant 1 or 2 and blue in the other quadrant.

Inside there the human players would have to something to which they have to look closely. I am not sure what, but anyways just guessing. :D

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

What if the center piece was more like a tetrahedral? 3 lateral sides...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

You could just go to a remote kickoff location and hide in the trees with binoculars and perform surveillance in the couple days and night before the event and see what they carry inside. Of course, that would be maliciously amateur, not graciously professional.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I see all the vowels of the alphabet, between "pi, you and me"

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

First, a quick grammar note. The way the comma was used ("...Pi, You and Me.") is acceptable according to some style guides. I disagree with it (1,2, and 3), as does the English department at MSOE, but the MSOE newspaper uses the comma in the way that the quote does.

On to my thoughts!

I really like that idea of two hexagonal fields, each with their own alliance, but the scores work together somehow. It reminds me of an idea I had last year for a game that is still untold to most...

What I get out of the hint is this:

Amethyst = purple, which to me means the red and blue alliances combine somehow. I think there could be a purple, or neutral, zone in the middle of the field that counts for nothing (the center is out????)...OR, how about this: the points in the blue zone multiply the points in the red zone, which gives both alliances the same base score. The points in the alliance's zone then get added to that base score. FOR EXAMPLE: 5 points in red, 10 points in blue. Base score = 50, red gets 55, blue gets 60.

I don't think the shape of the field will change. My early FIRST history is rusty, but was the hexagon field used for 5 years? The square field of '99 certainly was not =)

There is plenty of room on the current field for three teams per side and six robots on the field at once. As far as the radio is concerned, aren't there 14 channels (4 dipswitches)? I don't know much about the controller..so I could be very wrong. One way or another, it worked for the CDI competitions (3v3), so I don't see why it wouldn't work for regular FIRST. I really hope that it is 3v3 because those CDI matches were the best matches that I ever participated in or watched.

Pi leads to circles, and what is in the middle of Pi you and me?

PIYOUME -> center letter is O...what I'm getting at are INNERTUBES! Cirlces extruded about circles =)

Kev

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Yes, I know it would be, and it occured to me, but it was just a joke.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I like your thinking on the inner tubes... having 3 vs 3 would be incredible... unless you were on an alliance with two broken robots... then it would be like instant death... I would love to see 3 vs 3... It would bring so much excitement to the competition (no I'm not saying that the competition is dull right now because we all know how crazy everyone can get)...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

LOL but hey, it'd be funny and something to laugh at.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

When I read about the red + blue = purple. I started thinking about the best robotics game this year.

In it, there were multiple scoring zones one for each color and then four others where two of the four teams shared the points put in to this zone.

Maybe, the FIRST game is like this in that Instead of having to help your opposing alliance score points in a game like in stack attack were you were blowing the opposing alliances out it was to your advantage to help them score. You can put many of your scoring objects in a shared zone that makes both alliances score points, providing for a better qualifying score.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

They coudlnt have given us these things like 3 days before? SOME OF US NEED SOME FREAKIN SLEEP BEFORE THE SIX WEEKS!!!!!! :-P

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

May I just say "you" litteraly is in between "pi, you, and me"

Just some food for thought ;P

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: 'Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me.'"

I apologize if this has been said, but I don't have time to read through 230-something posts. John Neun and George Burns were both baseball players (as I saw when I attempted to read this thread). Baseball is played on a diamond. A diamond and amethyst can both go on rings. Rings are circular, as are glasses, as is the o in the middle of Pi you me. All of these circles are not solid; they have holes in them (donut/bagel shaped). This also goes with "the center is out" rumor earlier.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The clue was a Led Zeppelin song lyric from "Stairway to Heaven". We all then assumed there was a staircase or multiple steps to climb. Many of us (including me) believed there might be a "Stile" as a centerline divider access (or choke point) device, to replace the dual ramp or teeter totter in past events.

We were PARTLY right. It wasn't a "stile" ladder after all.

Instead, the center platform had three 2" microsteps at each end (a misdirection IMHO, as any robot using them would then have to navigate around the static goal on a VERY narrow shelf to get to the bar) . It also had a 6" (or 12") step if you approached the platform from near a midpoint side.

If your bar device required you to be directly under the bar, you were forced to "climb the staircase" by stepping up 6" twice.

BTW... The 10ft/sec maximum also in essence threw out ballistic acquisition of the bar from the floor. Do the math to determine how close you'd have to be for a 10ft/sec projectile shot upward to stall out vertically and you'll see what I mean... :) You had to be so close, manual placement was (IMHO) easier, and more reliable.

Does this help?

Now... Given THAT, how do we interpret THIS year's clue???

- Keith McClary

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

You forgot, "and sometimes Y." :D

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I'm going to stick with the baseball clue, since Johnny Neun and George Burns are the only first basemen to turn an unassisted triple play.

I think Pi refers to the (Pi)tchers mound, a circular object in the center of the baseball diamond.

I think the Amethyst colored glasses refer to an optical filter.

So, I think there will be an object, detectable by the IR sensor, between "first base" (starting point for the robot) and the center of the field.

I like the Blue+Red = Purple concept, although I do not immediately see how this will play out. Also, what will be the FIRST equivalent of the unassisted triple play? Those items, plus Car Nack's prediction, lead me to believe that alliances, if there are alliances, are not going to be what we have seen in the past.

BTW, the Championship Eligibility criteria still list 3 Regional Champions per Event.

Amethyst is February's birthstone.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Just because I want to throw in a little more confusion... I mean support toward the number 3...

George Burns, the actor... one of his biggest roles was playing God in the movie Oh God! The movie was a big enough hit to spawn off a sequel called Oh God! Book Two, which spawned off Oh God! You Devil. And though it's been a long time since I've watched one of these movies, I vaguely remember God as being based on the Christian god, and I'm not saying FIRST is in any way pushing the Christian religion on anyone, I'm bringing it up because one of the big components of the Christian religion is the Holy Trinity (which is, of course, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.) See, three.

And as someone pointed out, in the Life of Pi, the main character is a practicing Hindu, Islam and Christian. And of course I could get even more silly and point out that the title is three words and that the first chapter starts on page three...

Gems cut from amethyst are graded using the terms: Siberian, Uruguayan or Bahain; to represent high medium and low grade respectively, regardless of the actual source.

And of course people have already discussed the baseball threes...

I'm sure I could come up with lots more three related things, but I really need to go now. Why do I want to support three so much? Maybe I've been influenced by School House Rock and I really do believe Three is a Magic Number.

Heidi

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

3 x 3is possible. The red + blue = purple could be as said a combined score between red and blue. Being that there have been multiplier's the last 2 years the purple could be a multiplier of the red and blue teams individual scores. This would make it easier for the audience to figure out, no doubling the losers score idea and no one trying to knock over the other teams multiplier. The center is out clue (which I still believe is real) would but scoring zones on each side of the field. This would give spectators a closer view and open up the middle for more robots.

I believe that the if you look closely refers to an infared emitter that will be enclosed in something with only a small opening. This would prevent a lot of the bouncing light to disappear and therefore easier to home in on. Big bonus at the beginning of the game for autonomous mode that would be equal to the hanging at the end last year.

My 2 cents, take it or leave it. ;)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

George and Johnny both caught the ball at 1st, tagged the man at 1st, then out raced the guy from 2nd to second.

They could have assured themselves the out by tossing the ball to the second basemen, but they held on for the chance at greater glory. This is the opposite of the time multiplier in 2001. Also in 2001 was the 4v0 alliance time.

I think there will be a multiplier back, but it will have to do with number to alliance partners participating. There are always a few different ways to go about the game. Last year it was hang or get balls. Very few could do both. I'm thinking of this as another way to try and level the playing field so that powerhouse teams can't carry the whole alliance and that specialty bots will be all important this year.

-Flat field.
-Cooperation required for maxing out points.

Wetzel

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

One thing I noticed in the clue that hasn't been under much discussion was the fact that John was wearing the glasses. I have heard teams that refer to seeing through tinted glasses as seeing one side of an argument only. If one were to wear amethyst glasses (both blue and red) it seems that they see both the red and blue team equally. Through this messed up reasoning, it seems that the glasses could mean that teams have to work together equally to score points.

just my $0.02
~Keith

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't know... We may be looking too big... Look at last year's hint... Stairway to Heaven... Look at the significance of the stairs... They were little 2" mini steps... Some are looking at this clue and trying to figure out the whole game...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Ah! But that's what he wants us to think!

Or maybe I'm getting myself caught in a web of Iocaine Logic. ;)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

btw, something is weird, correct english would be Pi, you, and I


right?? :confused:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

ack... and i was already worrying about queueing with just 4 teams at a time!!!! [still trying to imagine getting 6 teams to show up in a timely manner. will i need to hold a bucket of candy... the 4 team members get a piece if they show up on time or something.]

I dont want to go to in depth... because i will be living on the boards for the next couple months anyways.

Here is my official pre-kick off guess.

# of teams - 3 [or 6 if they HAVE adjusted the # of channels. Queueing will be hell though.]
shape of field - Hexagon
alliances - none [purple = red+blue so maybe similar to 2001 when we had to all work together to beat the clock.] OR [Red+Blue+Purple where there are three teams and three "alliances" playing for themselves.]
field elements - Pyramid of some sort?
manipulatives - baseballs [or perhaps the return of the floppy donut things.]

----------------------------------------------------------
Maybe the field is divided into three, where everyone looks through the "rose-tinted glasses" [player station glass]and only sees one side of the center pyramid. which might be possible due to the field set-up and Pyramid placement.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

hahaha yeah tj never got candy because we are ALWAYS late... hahaha... I don't think we will all be working together though... I don't think FIRST will bring that back... If I can remember correctly it didn't go too well or atleast at the competitions I was at... Plus its so much more exciting to see robots working against each other...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I dont know... i think having the robots all work together in 2001 was a good idea... it really seperated FIRST from battlebots... and it certainly led to less severe robot/field damage durring matches. in 2002 the field got ripped up and in 2003 the "manipulatives" [bins] went faster than mountain dew durring build.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

This has already been discussed in this thread, FYI.

No - as long as a verb does not follow "Pi, you and me" it is correct. For example:

Pi, you and I went to the store. This is correct because you could break it into "Pi went to the store, you went to the store, and I went to the store." One wouldn't say, "me went to the store."

You will see something between Pi, You and Me. Using the same logic, you should be able to break this down into, "You will see something between Pi and You, Pi and Me, and You and Me."

There has been discussion about whether "Pi" is the first entity, "You" is the second, and "Me" is the third ... or whether "Pi" is the first, and "You and Me" is the second ... one would think if they were three seperate entities, it would correctly read:

"... something between Pi, you, and myself."

Of course, someone pointed out that "see" and "me" rhyme - but you would think if they were going for a rhyming scheme, the riddle would have been broken down like a rhyme ...

"Look closely and you will see,
Something between Pi, You and Me."

*shrug*

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

OH, OH, another idea. What if you need to accomplish 3 things to get out? The clue , the center is out, could mean that you need to accomplish 3 tasks in order to get to the center to get more points at the end of the game.

OWWW my brain hurts. I got another week to stew and I'm already cooked.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

You've got a point about the unassistedness of the triple play. Maybe it'll be like the big balls in 2001, that gave your particular team a multiplier. Of course, doing it would be harder, but you'll get the greater glory from it.

However, the time multiplier is an interesting idea as well. Perhaps the robots have to do something in as close to 1:45 as possible without going over.

And if that does happen, we're getting Bob Barker to emcee one regional.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

And you've got to do it autonomously! :D

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Amethyst is a "stone of spirituality and contentment",$@# bestows stability, strength and perfect peace. It balances the energies of the physical, emotional and intellectual. Kind of appropriate I think.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Corey... i think you brought up an Exelent point. Pi has infinite digit. what was there in FIRST that was infinite? any game, or any accidents?

edit - I was just talking to Kelly (kel D.) and was discussing the clue. she said maybe Amethyst (purple) means that we will have plexiglass which isnt going to be clear. (if this exact topic was brought up before in the thread i apologize).

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

As posted earlier, Pi when capitalized means product in math terms. The use of pi is for the calculations and is the infinite number.

The clue would the say, " If you look closely you will see something between 'the product', You and Me. "

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

well, more related is the fact that it: allows one to see with an open, intuitive mind.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Maybe they will multiply the amount of points of the two aliances to get an overall score of the match, this points could help for seeding...

Maybe, just an idea. :cool:

David

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

After much thought and many hours of sleeping on this and thinking about this hint i've come to one conclusion. First has given us a hint that is similar to last year, but related to a different topic, i think this hint refers to scoring methods and alliances more than field design or layout.
Yes it does tell you some of the layout in my opinion. I think by what it says that it will be as it wasin the 'old days', a hexagon field. We will once again have alliances in my opinion. and we will have many ways to score.
I know that this has been said in the thread previously but this is part of my idea that we will have a hexagonal field. They will but in 3 aliances, id like to think that each alliance will have 2 teams on it, but i'm not so sure with the threes, because obviously FIRST is liking threes. So does that mean its going to be a 1 V 1 V 1, or a 3 V 3 V 3, i don't know but that just sounds very choatic.
The Amethyst colored sun glasses i don't know refer to a blue between 2 alliances as much as it refers to a 3rd, 'neutral' alliance. My belief of the third alliance comes from the scoring factor. Amethyst can't be used as Red + Blue = Violet, because if you add the scores in qualifing it is okay, however you would run into trouble scoring the elemination matches because everyone would be getting the same score. which brings in if this is a hint to a blurred boundry does that mean its going to be just one big alliance as 2001 was, jeesh i hope not it wasn;t as fun or nearly enthusiastic for the kids as it has been. (well atleast not for me that is.)
I think all the threes refer to 3 ways to score. as far as i know since 2001 there have only been 3 ways to score in each game. 2004 you had small balls, big balls, and hanging. 2003 you had boxes, stacks, and hill. 2002 you had balls, goals, and goals and balls. 2001 you had the endzone, time, and balls. So i think this means once again it will be a three way scoring ability.
The something between Pi, You, Me. If you look closely you notice that the 'o' is in the center, however if you look more closely you will see that they are all SEPERATED by a comma. this leads me to believe once against that you are different from me, and pi is different from both you and me in terms of a boundary.
Also i think that there is going to be a neutral zone where no points can be scored or a place where robots can't go, but need to, or something like that.

thats my 2 cents.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

In going along with the Baseball theme:

Pi Shwerty

Has less to do with John and George than the previous mentioned Pie, but this guy is named Pi.

Might be interesting to note that this year the Red Sox won the World Series this year (w00t!) after the CRUSHING defeat of the Yankess (Double-w00t!). Anyone that knows about baseball, especially around the Boston area, knows that there is a huge rivalry between Boston and the Yankess.

John and George played in Boston, Pi played for the Yankees.

Something between Pi, youandme? I have no idea, I'm just throwing this out there.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

perhaps it is refrencing a geographical feature in between boston and new york

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

So the answer to the game is Pennsylvania? Eh....

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Nah, we're south of both Boston and NYC. Hartford, maybe? ;)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I looked at the email from FIRST and didn't see a comma between You and Me. If that is the case, then You and Me may be the something between Pi.

You and Me probably refer to the driver stations. Pi may refer to the playing field or something else FIRST has come up with. Probably is something else. ;)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Sorry if I'm being repetitive I havent had time to rumage through the entire thread.

First
pi is equal to 180 degrees
Baseball diamond: the number of degrees from the pitchers mound is equal to pi
(ie half circle of sorts)

George Burns:Baseball player, refer to the previous description
Comedian who coincidently loved his liquer(spell?)
Ameyst...(cant spell) gem stone believed by the greeks to ward of the symptoms of drunkeness

Also could someone tell me what type of gems and such are used in lasers and infrared beacons.

"Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."

Well I get two things out of this.
It's quite expensive to change the field shape, so this tells me its possible to have the same shaped field AND there is something between the two driver stations.

Secondly I don't think that there will be a light sensor or anything in that middle because Infrared is beyond humans natural ability to see because of the light spectrum.

Pi is what has me stumped,

Just some thoughts to ponder

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think we need to keep some valid hints active in this assessment:

There's the new official hint

There's the one that begat the new official hint

There's the original done in the style of the past, as "the manual signature hint"

I'm certain that these 3 are the real deal.

Now that said, lets look at how 2 hexagonal fields fit on a 24' wide carpet arrangement in the previous space - see attachment

It helps to see things at scale. 1 Hexagonal field would likely be too large if it used more than 24' - and 1 small field doesn't seem enough. But you can see how 2 together look like glasses, and merged make amethyst (purple). These 2 fields make more than enough space for 3 drivers per side and room for human players stations as well. This would be a great way to move more teams through more matches - 6 at a time (keep in mind, all regionals have increased registrants). Though I think the usual size bots are a little too big, but Dave mentioned in this post a while back, he wanted to reduce the overall package. So I think we're building smaller. Also someone asked why I thought we were getting less motors. Well if we are going to a smaller package, and they sold off all the drill's after last season, maybe they'll leave us with the CIM, FP, globe, seat and van, since we're working in less space.

Lastly considering the dessert post, and now pi - I'm sticking with the thought of either donut (inner tube) game pieces (pi), or an actual pie shape. I can picture Human players standing in the middle there tossing the donuts on pipes at the center of each hex.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

You know sometimes you get those things in your cereal. Well once I got this thing I don't know what its called but its like blue and red, and if you look at it through blue colored lenses then it filters the blue out and you can see the red writing well and if you do the same with red lenses then you can see blue writing. Could this have anything to do with Amethyst colored glasses and the human players role?

I think this thing that is hard to see has something to do with the human players role. Pi seems like its just a reference to a circle thats it, and John Neun and George Burns seems like it has to be a reference to baseball maybe something with the triple play.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Oh the joy of trying to figure out the game just over a week ahead of time. :p
Red+Blue=purple
Blue is the color of water, red of fire. They wouldnt have fire in a FIRST game, so it must be a water game! :yikes:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Water and Fire make steam.. Let's get this game already and go FULL STEAM AHEAD!!!

Reminds me of a picture of an Engineer that JVN posted a while ago! Choo Choo!!

Speaking of JVN, we have not heard from him yet, even though his (sorta) name is in the clue.. Odd..:ahh:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I have some more information..

There is a book, The Amethyst Spectacles, that was written in 1944 (or 1946) by Francis Crane. It is a mystery and suspense book, but more importantly its in the Private Investigator (Pi) genre. Anyway, here is a quick summary of the book (saw it somewhere online): That sets off a number of ideas in my mind.

1. Is there a connection in the year?
2. Those glasses are now seeming like the glasses from FLL.
3. The glasses appeared unexpectedly and in weird places. This is similar to how some people wanted autonomous mode, eh?
4. Pi: 2. any confused mixture; jumble.

This may go somewhere at some point, heh.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Here is one more "baseball reference" from Dave:

Tweet! Upon further consideration, the umpire has determined that this is an illegal pitch. Lucien has thrown us a spitball. The pitch is called as a "ball." There is a full count, and the runner will advance to first on the next ball.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...168#post311168
AND don't forget this:
"The best Christmas gift I received -
A DVD version of Clint Eastwood in "Dirty Harry" - my family knows me so well! (I've watched it four times already! "You've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya punk?" - one of the best movie lines EVER!!!)
Are you sure you DIDN'T already get that?-dave"

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

this may be a huge coincidnce, but George Burns, in 1983, had a birdie average of 3.14 (Pi). Which Geroge Burns is this, the guy who plays golf or is the narrator in 'Solid Gold Cadillac'?

Sparks

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Nineteen pages of discusssion in just over 24 hours. This may just be the fastest-growing CD thread ever. Outstanding! It is really going to be fun right after kick-off and the unvieling of the game to read back through this thread and see who was right, who was close, and who was way, way, way wrong! :)

-dave

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't know if this is of any significance, but there was a baseball player by the name of Pi at around the same time period as the other two. http://premium.si.cnn.com/baseball/m...ayers/s/46775/

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Oh boy!
Another contest......

My bet is a BASBALL Field!
1. Pi is related to the Great Pyramids; the height is 1 while the sides are Pi/2 (that's the theory!)
2. Amethyst has a pyramid shape atomic structure
3. the base of the pyramid is square like a baseball diamond
4. The official clue references two baseball players on 1st base
5. From 1st base you must travel three more bases to score at home plate
:confused: (my brain is in pain... can't sleep must think.....)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Thereby implying somebody is on the right track so far.... :yikes:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I only see 10. Guess we need to try harder!


Wetzel

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Dave, what else are you going to do make our 8 days of life MORE stressful? :ahh:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I betcha the FIRST officials in the know come in here from time to time and either gasp and think of how to make next year's clue harder or fall off their chair laughing.

Just a random thought.

Sparks

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

There it is again... 3!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

would if this hint is just a small part of the game and has nothing to do with the field. maybe you get 3x the losers score. and you have the same point system.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

On a more serious note than my last post, maybe something is on the field as well inbetween Pi, You and Me. Could you and me be the 2(yes, im sticking with 2 for now) teams, and Pi be the triangle. In between the triangle, you, and me would sugest that the triangle would be off to the side(forming another triangle between the 2 player stations and it). The object we'd be looking for would be in the middle of those 3 points. Now the glasses come into play. Ultraviolet(purple-amethyst), and infrared are on opposit sides of the spectrum, and wearing purple glasses would filter out certain spectrums of light. Maybe that is what were looking for. A certain spectrum of light in between those points, coughIRcough.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Except that filtering wouldn't matter; you would need some sort of camera to process the light and then output it onto a monitor. Our eyes cannot see IR light, or UV light. If you filter it, you are only filtering out the stuff that isn't it, but you aren't changing its wavelength, and thus it's not visible.

Now if FIRST wanted to hook up IR cameras and put monirtors in the driver's pit, that'd be swank. ^_^


By the way, anyone ever wonder if FIRST would make it so that we didn't decide where our bot started, but our opponents did? That wouldn't make the IR beacon in a random/changing spot, but it WOULD make the bot NEED to use some sort of poisitioning system (IR) to figure out where it is . . . although this has nothing to do with the clue . . .


As for Pi, what if the objects on the field were frisbees? I doubt it, since there's no easy way to throw it over the shielding (unless you are extremely good at hte hammer-toss) but FIRST has used all sorts of balls, boxes, doughnot-beanbag-thingies, and even a pleaying field with corn kernals as the turf. Frisbees would be fun, and not hte wierdest thing ever ^_^

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Oh man. I they did that all of my hard work will have been for nothing. I just assumed that we could depend on a known starting position. How will I navigate! Ahhhhhh!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

In FIRST you can never assume anything to be, especially starting places. You can only assume things when FIRST directly tells you. (and sometimes you can't even think that to be fully true. jk :) )

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Well, with a good navigation system, your robot only has to know for sure where it is for a moment based on sensor data or axiomatic declaration in the game spec, then it can figure it out from their. I doubt FIRST would position our robots randomly realative to scoring objects, as it would make it too challenging for the vast majority of teams.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

First of all some of this might already be posted so i apoligize if i am just repeating what you mgith have read. Here are my opinions

1. Amethyst is a hexagon shaped crystal, also optical filters of that kind are used to study UV rays. Seeing this i agree with the suggestions that the teams might be 3v3 or 2v2v2, and that IR guidance might play a greater role.

2. I dont know much about baseball, but given that the John Neun and george burns have 3 as a very common number i would say that the matches might be 3 minutes or alliances of 3.

3. I would like to mention that the value of Pi is 3.14 could this be hinting that the total time for a match will be 3 minutes and 15 seconds. Also Pi is 22/7 does that bring anything in mind, if it does please do post.

4. "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me". Pay close attention this might be refferring to the fact that "you and me" are between Pi. Which can mean that the robots are in a pyramid or triangle shaped area. Also the riddle mentions looking closely;hence there might be something which very hard to see or cant be seen through human eyes, Again this hints toward IR

My conclusion:

The alliances will be 3v3, the field will remain rectangular. Autonomous will have a greater role to play. There will be IR or other navigational guidance. Also i beleive there will be some items in the center that one has to gather most to make points. The multiplier will be back.

PS:- I would be laughing at myself once the game is unvieled

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Hmm this makes sense, 15 seconds for autonomous and 3 minute matches, with 3v3 more teams can play thus matches can be longer.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

No it isn't.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

this year is 2005

5-2=3

3 O no another 3

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Just a couple of observations, and I'm sorry if I'm repeating someone.
-A field layout change is unlikely, the field still has to fit in approximately the same size area yet still provide ample play space.
-Someone commented on DOX (Delta Omnicron Xi) being the "FIRST Frat", the Omnicron and Xi are used by the hint (Somehow) leaving just Delta - or change.

Just some ideas that came to me after midnight. Don't know if they mean anything.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Pi is the ratio of the circumferance to the diameter of a circle.
There are many websites established and dedicated to Pi - but, what if Pi stood for the other Beatle Paul? That would account for everyone except the one between John, George, and Paul - it only leaves RingO!

I doubt that we would have another hanging game, although hanging from rings would be interesting. So, if RingO is the clue - what if we had to pass something through the Ring, like a ball maybe? Sort of like Quiddatch (sp?) (from Harry Potter), except without the broomsticks.
Now, if we could only find that darn Golden Snitch? Dave?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I take it you are not a serious Ultimate Frisbee player. It would be easier to throw it upside down then to hammer it, depending on where it is going. And some venues have things hanging that would interfere with a hammer.
Don't discount something that you think can't be done.


Wetzel

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

hehehe frisbees would be intense... we have been wishing for them... but I doubt for our last year (as high school students) in FIRST that we will have them... But who knows... We could get lucky...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

i'm sry if i'm repeating anybody, but

mebbe the "look closely" part refers to some obstacle in the center of the field which needs to be located by using a sensor of some sort, so it's more mandatory that u need to use those sensors. this seems likely, i think, considering what they said last yr that teams will have to become more accustomed to using those sensors since they will be used in future games

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Well, I see a way.

Remember, the 2004 field hit its fifth year, so an overhaul seems likely. And you know how they had the ball chutes this year? Well, what's stopping FIRST from cutting a slit in the plexiglass such that a HP could send a frisbee through?

(Of course, there would be a stiff penalty for a robot breaking that plane.)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

perhaps we need to look at the shape of Pi....π

my speculation would be either a pyramid like we've said, but has been done before and is therefore unlikely, or a pit/pool. not water, but perhaps of another item the robot has to fetch?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

This thread would probably make it to a thousand replies if it wasn't for the fact that kickoff is next Saturday.