Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Really? How about a tunnel or a table? Maybe legs is a requirement this year. :ahh:

Maybe they mean the curly kind. How about a dance contenst. (Wouldn't that be an interesting year?)

Or maybe it's a big puzzle we have to solve, and they've quietly given us 2 extra weeks to do it. ;)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Robots playing DDR! That would get a large audience! :D j/k

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

How long as the carpeting been used? This has nothing to do with the clue, really, but how likely is it that they'll change the turf that we'll have to drive on?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Well...the hint has been out for 2 days and there are 7 days until kickoff. We have 300 replies, so at this rate there will be over 1000 replies by kickoff!

P.S. There have been many repeated ideas. If you intend for others to read your posts, please kindly read the ideas posted before yours. This is not meant as a attack on certain people, but it would save many people time (and CD server space) if you checked for similar ideas before posting.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

If memory serves me right (and if I'm wrong, correct me), FIRST has gone the carpet route every year since 1993. Only in 1992 did they use something else (cough)corn(cough)

As for the shape of pi, I think it'd be quite interesting to see how robots would get over that.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think it is related to The Beatles, last year it was as simple as the song title, Stairway to Heaven. I wouldn't be surprised if it had to do with rings as some others said. I dont think the hint needs to be analized so much.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't know, the Beatles thing seems a bit iffy to me. Last year, like you said, it was clear, but this year all we're going on for the Beatles (correct me if I'm wrong, I may have missed something in the 300+ posts!) is just "John" and "George". If we had been given John and George, no last names, I would have agreed with you, but I think that this time, it's pretty clear that it's the baseball.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I seriously doubt a major change in flooring, as agreed. But if they did (doubtful) then many drivetrain systems would have to be reconfigured. Besides, how would they even choose what flooring?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

i and a friend have found some intresting facts.

John Neun- Neun means Nine, could mean something

If that triple play they both had came against clevland this leads me to something else, the amethyst Glasses. Bono of U2 wheres those colored glasses all the time, and what do you know? Its Their inauguration year into the Rock and Roll hall of Fame in Cleveland this march on National Pi Day, (3/14)

here are his glasses, notice the amethyst color here


now to find how it relates to the competiton

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I'm definately agreeing here, I bet the score will be able to be multiplied somehow via doubler objects or possibly stopping the clock again early. I don't think there will be more the 4 teams per round this year, I'm just having a hard time trying to figure out where purple is coming in... possibly purple field objects. Oh who knows... can't wait to find out what the game is ^_^

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Heres a thought.
The only way George Burns could see himself would be with a mirror or camera. Maybe a little webcam on the robot? Maybe the amethyst glasses have something to do with this. :cool:
Hmmmm

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I gave up trying to keep up with this thread at about post 150. Does anyone who has kept up care to summarize the ideas currently floating around? Thanks.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

a summary of over 150 posts! :ahh: . Most people have given ideas as to what the clue means (go figure). Some claim that the clue has everything to do with the Beatles, and others argue that it is all about baseball. Many (ahem) unique ideas have been brought up. Everyone is frantically trying to figure out what the clue is before the kickoff. People have even come up with entire game designs including graphics!

now on to my own 'unique' thoughts

I think that if one looks back at the clue last year (stairway to heaven), it didn't have much to do with the game, a few small steps, and two ways to get up to a platform, not very much to do at all. The clue seemed to have been there just to wet our appetite, (for which I am very glad). I think that this years clue will be similar, and we will all smack our foreheads and go "OH!" when the game is revealed.

Personally I like the idea that the amethyst has something to do with the layout of the field, or some small aspect (such as different colored Plexiglas, or neutral zones that are purple in color). I love this clue, and I have lost much sleep over it! :D

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

It is certainly fun to speculate about the game. But, I have a question for our FIRST historians out there.

Has anyone ever guessed the game exactly (or come close)? Has anyone done this more than once?

Just curious.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns
the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something
between Pi, You and Me."

There are some definate constraints as to the possible meaning of this clue that have not been mentioned.

Amethyst colored - I think that the addition of the word colored means that this part of the clue has more to do with the color of Amethyst than than the structure or any other attribute ot amethyst.

Look closely and you will see something
between Pi, You and Me - Secondly there is a bit of ambiguity with the sentence structure of the last part,"Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me". This could be one of two things both of which have two different meanings. It could be listing 3 things that are seen when you look closely, "something between pie", "you" and "me". It could also mean that when you look closely, you see you and me between pi.

There has been alot of concentration on connections between the various things mentioned in the clue but very little attention to how they relate in the context of the clue. FIRST could have just given us a clue that read something like "John Neun, You, Glasses, Me, pi, Amethyst, Emerald, look closely,George Burns" but they didn't. The structure of the sentence is purposeful and there for a reason.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Can we get anything from this in Dave's latest post
Pi is what makes circles, and Dave is talking about tangents. Hrmm. And then he says "throw" Hrmm. Baseballs, donuts, I don't know...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Glasses are made of 2 circular lenses connected by a Bridge.
6 sided crystal.

Maybe the game involves a bridge that moves in multiple (6) directions. (Like balanced on one central pivot)
:D


You Can Anything if You Put Your Mind to It.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I Googled John Neun, because the name seemed familiar.
There is a mysterious "John V. Neun" who has been mentioned for years in this forum. I don't know if this is a real person or an alias. I have a super slow connection this weekend, and haven't been able to research further. So "John Neun" might have two meanings, "George Burns" might have two meanings. Everything in the riddle can have multiple meanings. What does it all mean? Maybe the best solution to the game involves Group(Set) Theory, Fractal Geometry, and Topology. The game committee wants us to "DO THE MATH."


------



ChiefDelphi Forums - Another John Neun ... for real ?!?!
... Another John Neun ... for real ?!?! Just saw this on the main Forum page (see
attachment) ... ... Re: Another John Neun ... for real ?!?! Quote: ...
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=27430 - 101k - Cached - Similar pages

ChiefDelphi Forums - No official FIRST game hint yet??
... 12-06-2004, 03:23 PM. John Neun. Registered User. Team #0020 (Rocketeers). Team
Role: Engineer. Joined: Apr 2004 | Rookie: 2000 Location: Clifton Park, NY. Posts ...
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...?postid=306230 - 101k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.chiefdelphi.com ]

Neun Family Genealogy Forum
... Jonas NEUN, Germany 1821- Ohio 1840 - George McIntosh 3/20/00: John or Benjamin
NEUN/NINE b late 1700PA - April Potts 12/06/99: Re ...
genforum.genealogy.com/neun/ - 18k - Cached - Similar pages

Johnny Neun Statistics - Baseball-Reference.com
... Johnny Neun John Henry Neun. Bats Both, Throws Left Weight 175 lb. ... Name and misspellings:
Johnny john johney johnnie johny jonnie jonny johhny Neun. ...
www.baseball-reference.com/n/neunjo01.shtml - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

--------------

PS I finally got my vanity plates. I am now California:

"DR*BOT"

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

There is an actual person named John Vielkind-Neun who usually shortens his name to JVN. He is a mechanical engineering student at Clarkson University and is on their team, #229 Division by Zero.
There was much excitment when John's father, also named John Neun began posting on the forum. He is an engineer on team #20 The Rocketeers.

Of course, the question is: we all know Dave Lavery is on the game design comittee. The name John Neun would be known to most people on the forum and many in the FIRST community. He obviously picked that name to confuse us. Was he thinking of something in particular about John Neun, and specifically which CD poster; or was he thinking about Johhny Neun the baseball player?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Ok... it is kind of weird but I think that it might relate to one of the game guesses in this thread.

Innovation First still has not released their robot controller or operator interface for 2005. Could this mean that they made a major change to the controllers that might give away the 2005 game? I was thinking along the lines of a different radio setup for the 3 vs. 3 at competitions. This would solve the problem mentioned in this thread. If they basically kept the controller form last year then wouldn’t it they just release it?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The 2004 control sys setup is completely capable of 3v3. The only thing that they would have to change is the team color lights. That wouldn't be a major change at all.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

thats the shape of pi, not Pi. Capitilization matters in greek as well. And Pi means product, vs. pi meaning 3.14.....

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Isn't the shape of pi meaning 3.14 in circle measuring terms, a straight line from the center of said circle to the diameter which relates to the number of times that straight line can be laid on top of the Diameter of the circle?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

a radius? lol

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=32044

No, more of a chord in pure center to diameter form, and a radius in a laid over the diameter sense..

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

What I am saying is that perhaps we need to *quit* thinking so much math and look only at the shape of the character Pi....

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Ok...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

again, it could be a 3-d reference to the playing field...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

how? you mean like a table or something?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Like it could be showing depth of something - like ramp or table or even a lower pit area. The such.
But as we were saying earlier that things can have double meanings in clues, I'm not trashing the circular object idea.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Yes, I agree.. The symbol for pie looks like a bridge between two points.

Maybe a field element like a bridge over an obstacle can be assumed? One can only guess.

For those who do like math *not me* here is an extensive research of pi.
http://www.jimloy.com/geometry/pi.htm

And look, it even has reference to pyramids for you pyramid theory buffs.
http://www.jimloy.com/pseudo/pyramid.htm

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

OH OH OH!!! HOW ABOUT MULTIPLE FLOORS!??! That would rule!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Here is a past post of mine that you all may find insteresting. link

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Here is a couple ideas:

1. What is there is a total new bot design what if FIRST has purchased hexpod kits from Pi Products and a total new starting point for team bots.

2. What if FIRST has their own bot (hexpod) with IR beacon mounted on it?thus the need for tinted glasses

3. First base men = FIRST

4. I totally agree 3x3.

5. Specific scoring objects for each team and other objects that both teams can score with?

My $.02
Mentor
1557 (12 volt bolt)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think that It would be great for FIRST to do something new and such as the hex Field or bot or whatever it may be and to do 3v3 because it would really level the field for rookie teams and very experienced vets so everyone has a much better chance. a team could have been around for 8 years or more but they would have the same amount of experience at building a bot that had to work on a hex Field or had to bridge a gap in someway as a rookie team would have to.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

1) What is Hexpod kits from Pi Products? Link?

2) Why would tinted glasses help you with an IR beacon?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think they meant the tinted glass that covers the IR sensor its not clear plastic its darkened (I think) so other light and signals wont inter fear with the intended signal as much.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

first base?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

John Neun and George Burns were two baseball players who have pulled unassisted triple plays. They both played first base and were in the official clue.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Now that's a neat idea! Having the autonomous mode at some unspecified time during the match to accomplish a task only accessible through autonomous would force everyone to use sensors - IR, light, sound, whatever - no more of that dead-reckonin' stuff our team, for one, uses every year. :)

Now, just for fun, I'm going to try to contrive a rediculous, surface level connection to the clue. :rolleyes:

IF:

1. "Pi" is interpreted as "the product" as stated in earlier posts
2. "The product" is assumed to indicate the end of a match (the product of the efforts)
3. The lack of a comma between "You and Me" is interpreted such that "You and Me" are between the beginning and the end of the match
4. "You and Me" indicates the connection between George Burns and John Neun
5. The connection is assumed to be the unassisted triple plays
6. "Unassisted" can be considered loosely synonymous with "autonomous" if "autonomous"'s definition is taken as "independent"

then it can be gathered that at some undefined point during the match, teams will have an opportunity to complete a task in autonomous mode, possibly with some relation to the "three" of the triple play.

~~**~~

WOW! That was fun! Give me another illogical point to argue! :D

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

is it just me or does that idea scare you silly?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

To all the people who believe in the Beatles reference, I've got it! What FIRST is trying to convey to us is that at regional events, the DJs will no longer play repetitive techno and pop music over and over and over and... but will instead culture us with Dave Lavery's extensive collection of the Beatles' works, as mentioned earlier by Lil Lavery.

... not that I'm saying the music is annoying sometimes :)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Honestly, I'm terrified! :eek: I mean, last year we barely even managed to make our robot MOVE during autonomous. Unfortunately, it has been emphasized over and over again that autonomous control is more similar to what most robots do in the real world, and I've heard that FIRST is moving more and more towards using autonomous. This seems like a logical step that could make autonomous control much more powerful without taking time or challenge away from the rest of the match.

This is coming soon, I think, whether or not it's this year, but it's my pet theory that this clue will have something to do with autonomous, though I can't really say why.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Friend of mine analyzed the quote and immediately thought of pie wedges....any chance?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Just a few things I've noticed thus far:

1. Multiple floors, lowered control stations and a gigantic pyramid are all impractical because in order for them to support one robot (or more) would mean intense structural design. Sure, we all pitched in an extra $1000, but I'm pretty sure thats something known as economics. That extra $1000 isn't to cover new parts or a ridiculous skyscraper shaped field. That is so FIRST can get more money. Also, think about a multi story field or pyramid. At the end of a match, do you use a crane to get them down? Not likely, some venues won't allow it.

2. Another thought, George Burns is an actor who played God in a movie called "God." The game may be referencing to a scene or part from the movie.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Several times throughout the forum, IR has been mentioned in connection with the amethyst glasses. But any IR sensor wouldn't use amethyst, as it would only let through considerably shorter wavelengths (right?). Are the UV sensors out there, as those would work much better with amythest. Do they have any properties that might define the game?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

UV Paint playing feild! That would rule! Hmmm... Doesn't UV light damage the retinas if they're exposed to it too long? Oh, and all the drivers would have fabulous tans! But then there is the whole skin cancer thing.

Maybe not...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

*A night light just flicked on in my hibernating brain*

What if the field components are red & blue baseballs and containers are placed at each corner of a diamond shape pattern. The robot must deliver to each of the four containers their color baseballs.
Here is the twist, the red team scores one point if there is one red ball in each of the four containers. Therefore, the robot must run the baseball diamond pattern to fill each container. :yikes:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

no suer if this will hav been posted yet or not. i haven't finished reading all of the posts in this thread yet. but when you read it like that, it reaffirms the point that the product or scores will have something in common with you and i. so then red and blue with have to work together to accomplish at least a piece of their scores, maybe some sort of multiplier. :rolleyes:

hope this makes sense.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

In The Hobbit, Gollum spoke in rhyming riddles....

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Im sorry if this has been posted before but i just noticed this one
Dave Post
And by looking at this John V Neun
we can tell that Jonh V Neun's birthday is in Febuary. Whereas the John Neun baseball player was born in October as seen here

So i kinda think we are going in the wrong direction in thinking about baseball but maybe its just me..

It seems the more we look at this clue the stranger and stranger this thread gets and i don't think the post helped matters. LOL

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Wow, good find!
JVN birth month is Feb. and that bithstone is Amethyst. :yikes:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

maybe the score for the match is the midpoint between the 2 scores

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

wow, this changes a lot, good find!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

They wouldnt, I was just saying that the tinted glasses would alter the light your seeing, and that might be a clue to the light your looking for.

On another note, Pi has more to do with a circle than a triangle, so maybe its a circle we are supposed to find. Note how there's no comma between you and me. Grammatically you only use the comma before and if the "and" is being used to connect a statement of three or more objects. So if the pi cant be in there, because then youd need the comma before and. So grammatically it means, if you look between pi, you'll see you and me(or something along those lines). So if the pi represents a circle, you and me are in a circle.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

There's a lot of great ideas here but it's getting a little cluttered. Therefore, I decided to put all the ideas together that I thought were particularly important in analyzing the clue. I have tried to cite sources and added comment to some ideas.
Amethyst

• Amethyst, is more commonly characterized as the color purple. The primary colors red and blue when mixed together create purple. This is of course interesting because alliance colors usually are red and blue. Post
• Amethyst is the 6th anniversary stone. There are two things interesting about the 6th anniversary. This year marks the 6th year since the 1999 game Double Trouble. Double Trouble was the first game FIRST introduced alliances and also the last time there was a major field dimension change. Post
• It was noted that Dave Lavery saw something at the Science Museum of Virginia that made him think of this years game. At the time he made that comment there was a major exhibit on crystals and specifically hexagon shaped crystals. The hexagon might be referring to the shape of the playing field for the 1998 game Ladder Logic. Post

John Neun, George Burns

• John Neun and George Burns, were both baseball players. They have the following in common: both completed unassisted triple plays, both were first basemen, and both accomplished their triple plays under similar circumstances. Post
• John Lennon and George Harrison appear together on the album for the Beatle’s album Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band. Between George and John is a drum, which in the game clue represents Pi. Dave Lavery’s son confirmed that Dave is a Beatles fan and definitely would have that particular album. Post
• It’s important to note that George Burns is also an actor who acted in a movie based on the Beatle’s album Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band. Post

Pi

• When Pi is in uppercase it refers not to the ratio of circumference to diameter in a circle (3.14…), it’s used as the “product” symbol. Post
• There was a thought that perhaps the Pi reference was not meant literally but figuratively- a 3D representation of the field based on what the Greek letter looks like. Perhaps, there might be a bridge that we need to cross between two teams. Post
  
  

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

:confused: Here's a theory. Assuming there are only two alliances again, maybe there are three sets of goals (red, blue, and purple) and the purple goals are mutual goals in which both alliances must score in order to receive a score. The amount that each alliance scores in these purple goals could also work as a multiplier to their individual scores as well.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The way we learned it in 6th grade, and the way I use it in my essays, is that yes, there should be a comma between the 'you' and the 'and'. So it should read, according to the rules we learend in grammar school, as:

"Pi, you, and me."


HOWEVER, everytime I'm reading a book, or an article, or a textbook, I'm CONSTANTLY seeing no second comma. Thus, according to the seemingly widely accepted standard, "Pi, you and me" is perfectly correct, also.


Thus, I'm not sure if we can get anything out of the lack of a comma.


I do find it very weird that there would be both a baseball, and a Beatles connection between the two names though. Either one of them is a coincidence, or both, or neither. Either way, this clue is frikken weird . . .

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Confirmed.. Sort of.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26438&highlight=Science+Museum+Vi rginia

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think that these clues only drive people crazy and don't help at all because no one can accurately guess the whole game and design their robot before kickoff. So I have tried not to pay too much attention to this thread even though there are some interesting ideas. For those of you having fun, keep at it, you may actually figure something out before kickoff, but I think it is better to relax before kickoff and build season.

Edit: I can confirm that Dave Lavery stated at the 2004 NASA/VCU regional that something at the Virginia Science museum (where the team social was held) reminded him of or gave him an idea for the 2005 game. I was there when he stated that.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Tyler, I think of it this way.

If there was no clue, and no bombardment of the CD server(s) before the kickoff; then would the servers handle the strain at kickoff?

I treat this thread, and all the excitement of all the threads, as a big CD Server test.

Oh, and I guess a lot too about the game.. oh well.. :p

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

ok i think i've figured a majority of it out. If you have noticed there are at least 2 signs that point to Cleveland:

George Burns and John Neun-Both had unassisted triple plays aggainst Cleveland whatever there name was before WW2

Amethyst Cololered Glasses- Who wears them? Elvis Costello, Bono of U2, Roy Orbison. One thing in common besides the fact they play Rock Music, they are all in or going in this year to the Rock and Roll hall of fame where is it? Cleveland.

This leads me to an idea of what the playing field is like the infamous "Mistake on the Lake" in Cleveland. do you know the design of the stadium? Its a horseshoe oh it was called the mistake on the lake because of the really high winds coming off the lake and the really bad indian teams.

Note I believe this is where John Neun had his unassisted triple play here, george burns did it 9 years before it was built which was in 1932.

Thats the shape of the field, and inbetween the horse shoe is a big cylindrical figure, completing there is something between Pi, you, and me.

what do you think of my idea?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

if that were the case, then wouldn't it be:
"Look closely and you will see something between Pi; You and Me"

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

hey everybody here r my thoughts.......

what if in the automode there is an object in the center which has an ir beacon on it so a robot could retreive it for big pnts.(hmm maybe a pyramid, beanbag or yes horseshoe haha....hmmm) or u could go to some area that is randomly placed for pnts, also only found with IR. i think first wants mor focus on automode so they r goin 2 giv teams some incentive 2 havin automode

jus some thoughts okay adios

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Ok. What about the "between?" Between is supposed to be used for two items, and among for more than two.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

So we developed AI...
it figured out the clue ...already..
made itself accordingly
and is currently walking to the peachtree regional
if you find him ask him what the objectives are, we'd sure like to know
...
anyway

if anyone wants to play halo2 message me on aim at stealingshrimp =)
lets get a halo2 cd group together WOOT

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

i have the 365 post for this thread, sorry i was amused about that for some reason. i cant wait to see how wrong or right we car on saturday

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Let me just clear this up once and for all. BOTH forms with commas are acceptable. HOWEVER commas after each item is prefered, because of the other interpretations left open by there NOT being a comma.

In other words, it can STILL go either way without there being a grammer mistake. See here: http://www.rhlschool.com/eng2n35.htm

As for the other grammer question:
NOPE! Semi colons are used to join complete clauses or lists in sentences with commas; for futher information, look here: http://www.uhv.edu/ac/grammar/semicolon.html

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The use of a comma before "and" is a serial comma. Personally, I prefer this, but it's technically a matter of what style guide you use. In any case, in reference to the game clue, using a serial comma in this year's clue would've been incorrect.

The clue says: "between Pi, You and Me"

"Between" is used for two subjects and thus they are "Pi" and "You and Me". If you had a comma before the "and Me", the word "between" would need to have been replaced with "among". I don't seen anything left to intepretation in the clue other than its meaning. The grammar's fine.

On another note, I lived in Cleveland for five years, during the 95 & 97 World Series... GO INDIANS! And does anyone else agree that the baseball references probably were used this year due to the Red Sox? :) :)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Another thing noticed about the bridge ideal...glasses, when placed on their ends, look like a bridge...a bridge shared by red and blue?

As for the horseshoe shape....quite interesting, i like it, kinda.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think peoples' ideas about it being the Beatles song is pretty good. Think about it. If it really was Led Zep last year (I wasn't around, so I wouldn't really know), then it makes sense that they'd continue on with another classic band... Sometimes it helps you see the picture clearer if you don't read too far into things... Just a thought...

-Lauren-

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

who really knows what the game will all we can do is sit and twirl our thumbs until the 8th.
i hope for nothing with BALLS!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Sorry to burst your bubble but with all these baseball references, baseballs seems like a likely scoring object.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I'm not so sure about that.. they are fairly dense.. and if the human player is involved.. there will be no thrown baseballs.. maybe loading?
they can damage a robot very easily

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Did anyone see this post?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

They have a hard enough time now with the alliances. This time I believe that Dave is trying to throw a curve ball. WHAT, baseball again. HHHMMMMMM :confused:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Remember, Dave may be giving us a red herring.

When it's right before kick-off, I'd trust what Dave says just as much as he'd trust allowing me to drive his rovers. ;)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

But maybe his posts are actually clues and that is what he wants you to do.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

//in good humor
One day..one day... I am going to make my own rovers and then the almighty Dave Lavery can be jealous of me:mad:

But frankly I LOVE THOSE ROVERS and I am so jealous of Dave right now!!!!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Dave may just be messing with us, but MAN 2v2v3 would be interesting.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Finally finished reading this whole thread after three days.

I think the multiple mentions of three in the clue (triple play if you take the baseball theory and three subjects) indicate the presence of one of four options:
- 3v3 teams
- x3 Multiplier
- 3 minute match
- Putting 3 objects together = more points (like a stack)

The longer match doesn't seem practical, because with about 100 matches in the day, this is over an hour and a half longer of competition (unless they begin on Thursday!)

The baseball connection seems to strong to be ignored, especially considering the prior references to this by Dave Lavery. I see baseballs themselves as being too small for objects, but maybe a game involving stations/bases could came from this.

Their unassisted triple plays make me think of autonomous mode, but cant think of what would be between the end of the match (product/Pi) and autonomous (You and Me). Maybe this means that autonomous will be in the middle, but I fear that scenario as a programmer who never even got the IR to work last year. Even if not in this way, I see IR as playing a major role in this game.

The amethyst originally made me think of hexagonal fields, as previously mentioned, I think FIRST might be due for a change of field. Dave Lavery's post here makes me rethink this, maybe an amethyst will really be used (or is he trying to throw us off...it does only say "amethyst colored" in the clue) The lack of a low cost bill of materials may also indicate a major redesign of the field or some special element, as last year the only strange listing was the toilet flanges (see here). I did find that this was only sent out 5 days before the kickoff, a point which we have not reached this year. Maybe FIRST just hasn't had time to post this yet.

The Beatles connection seems too vague, I like the Cleveland connection better, since it relates to baseball and can be tied to the amethyst colored glasses anyways. Now what between Pi and Cleveland when looking through Cleveland?

I bet many of us (including me) are probing too far into the clue. Last year, the surface level elements were the only major clues (stairs and no shooting toward a bar). If Dave Lavery is still reading this thread, I would like to know how long you guys spent coming up with the clue, just to see how long you think about something that we can discuss for over 350 posts and ponder for a week.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I have FIRST insomnia.... so here is another midnight S.W.A.G:

Imagine…
Your team, with 5 other teams, is called to the playing field and you and another team are given a purple card instead of a red or blue.

You do not know what side you are on, so you are now place in the middle of the field with another purple team. When the game starts the purple color is changed to red or blue and now you must defend or fight for your alliance.
The two blue teams and two red teams start on both ends but you and the other purple team are in the middle of a "cage" that is shaped like a “baseball” diamond OR a boxing ring. You must stay inside for the whole match. You pass or receive balls (assumed) to or from you Alliance for scoring. :confused: Possible? ... given all the clues so far.

Boxing gloves are optional.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Look closely and you will see something between Pi, you and me.

Maybe a team receives the average of the product of the 2 scores.
(blue score * red score)/2.
:D
Amethyst is a purple gem, and when red and blue are mixed, they form purple, which helps t6o support this theory

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

OK this is what i found out

George Burns was a big time comedian/actor: You know the guy with those big glasses and giant cigar

John Neun: all i found on this guy was he was an old baseball player from the REDS

Amethyst: is acutely a blueish violet i found this out because i looked it up in the dictionary

as far as the pi and the you and me part I have no clue

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Amethyst is used to prevent infared light from being emitted to IR and that will jave something to do with it the whole other part is prolly the same as everyone else has said with the hexagonal field but i think maybe IR signal jamming and things in that nature might play in just my 2 cents.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

George and John are the only too Beatles that have died

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Sense this is most likely the second year of the "FIRST Frenzy" games, in that FIRST draws game elements from prior years competitions. I think that they will start taking from other years competitions that were not used last year. Maybe there will be a teetering bridge across two sides of the playing field and maybe a pyramid shaped contraption to hang horseshoes or rings from like in hexagon havoc.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Haven't gotten through all the posts but:

1. St. Pepper the movie stars Peter Frampton, and the Bee Gees I belive, not the Beatles even though it's based on their album by the same name so strike those references.

2. There are 9 unassited triple plays in the history of baseball the most recent being two years ago and, usless fact, one of the more famous ones being exectued by John Valentin of the Boston Red Sox during Alex Rodriguez's first major league game, Seatle Mariners. This being said I think the names John Neun and George Burns have signifigance. For example a cigar shaped object?

3. The Pyramids of Giza: take their perimiter and divide it by their height, when they had cover stones and you get Pi. There fore I think there is a pyramid in the field or as a scoring object.

Pete

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Maybe Pi refers to a circular field?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

My prediction is at the bottom, but my reasoning comes first.

I think we're forgetting some of the things that have been said in past years about the evolution of the game's design...

1. The game needs to be easy to watch for the spectator who has no knowledge of the game and who can easily know who is winning.

2. Alliances have been a teaching tool, teaching us that in the real world sometimes you need to work with your competitors to better one another.

3. Programming and autonomous mode have become a major part of the game and if what Dave said is true, then IR will be BIG this year.

While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the
following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You
and Me."

We need to look at the key parts of the hint...

1. Amethyst
Amethyst is a shade purple which is made of red and blue. Possibly the teams have to work as one large team to complete a task to get past whatever is "between" (See #4) them and Pi (See #2)

2. Pi (defined as: the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle)
The goal perhaps is round or cylindrical is shape.

3. You and Me
This represents the two teams. John Neun and George Burns played on different baseball teams.

4. "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me."
An IR "invisible fence" between the teams and the goal.

5. The baseball tie-in
Too small for the spectator to see as the main scoring object.
Maybe a knock it off the pole type of thing from last year.

6. The Unassisted Triple Play tie-in
Autonomous mode. 3 tasks to complete.


So if your still reading this or skipped ahead here is my prediction.

There will be two teams of two competing on a rectangular field. The match will start with autonomous mode, one alliance member will be activated for the attempt at the "unassisted triple play". At the end of autonomous mode all the robots will be activated and will have to work with the competing alliance to get to a cylindrical or round goal blocked by the IR "invisible fence".

Hope you didn't all fall asleep or get lost reading this. I've been trying to write it while trying to work...

Have fun this year and don't let this hint get you all too stressed, you have 6+ weeks of stress and headaches ahead, but it is all worth it as many of you know.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Pi relates to a circle
Me can refer to mechanical energy
A circle of mechanical energy can be a spring
Amethyst is known for increases your ability to open to new ideas and help open the channels to your higher self.
So, somewhere in a circle is a spring that holds mechanical energy. This energy is tapped when you open yourself up to new and dynamic ideas.
Look out!

:rolleyes:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

[quote=Jay5780
2. Pi (defined as: the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle)
The goal perhaps is round or cylindrical is shape.

[/QUOTE]

As has been stated before :

pi is the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a circle

Pi when capitalized means product.

There was a deliberate attempt to capitalize Pi which means there is no relationship with a circle. That doesn't mean there won't be but the clues from previous years have been meticulously written.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Oops.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Gee, won't Paul McCartney be surprised! (and please, let's not go off on a "but everyone knows that 'Paul is dead' because he wasn't wearning shoes on the cover of the 'Abbey Road' album, and then there are all the clues on the cover of the 'Sgt Pepper' that confirmed it" tangent!)

-dave

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Tangent! There it is again! :ahh:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Well, crap. If you're reading this, sorry Paul. I really liked that song you did with Michael Jackson, "Say, Say, Say".

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

It's a trick! We're getting too close to guessing some parts of the game so Dave keeps trying to throw us off with false hints! His putting it in plain view twice is unlike him - usually he will hide his hints embedded within an unrelated thread, not place it right in front of us. So we should concentrate on non-tangent related ideas...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Good point let me revise what I said. Maybe Pi doesn't refer to a goal in the sense of cylindrical shape or roundness, maybe it refers to the scoring object. or if you read into the mathematical meaning of the word product it could be the multiplier.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I've just had revelation!

OK FIRST just unveiled a new logo

Think about the logo for a minute, it's got a circle (pi) "between" red (me) and blue (you) objects (triangle and square. To celebrate the new logo, they might have built a game around it! And it just so happens that I suggested a game that would do just that in the "you design the 2005 game" thread"!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Just a thought.. Has anyone looked at the new logo through some purple lenses?

Maybe the new logo is like one of those hidden eye images? :ahh: