Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Perhaps in between the opposing teams there is some sort of "beacon" that blocks IR transmissions, etc. to the robot, forcing the use of sensors in the opponent's territory???

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Notice that in baseball, there is one person on offense (batter) and 9 on defense (fielders).

This also ties in with daves post about the un-even aliances.

Just a thought.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I've still been trying to figure out how the uneven alliances would work. Dave implied that the robots would already sort of be characterized as stronger or weaker. What I can understand is how this will be determined, and how scheduling would work to allow for this determination before the matches begin. In other words, how can it be determined which robots are strong or weak. OR! Maybe they'll simply put down seven teams per match and allow the teams to pick their own alliances.

Again, I just think this idea would be much to complicated to be put into place. The entire elimination tournament would have to be restructured to allow for the elimination, the way I see it. Does anyone have a better understanding of this?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

They wouldnt necessarily be characterized like that. It could just be 2 v 3 with the alliance of 2 having some sort of advantage.

Eliminations could just be alliances of 3. The alliances would use 2 or 3 bots each match depending on which side they are on.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

No, I see what you're saying, KimT. That's pretty much what I thought when that idea went around. I can't see how it would work out.

Another thought. Maybe this new evolution of the FIRST logo could be a clue itself (without having to look through purple lenses, although that was a clever thought). Maybe the fact that they added depth to the logo can be a clue that a new depth will be added to the field. What comes to my mind would be the same pyramid in the middle of the field idea.

Just a thought.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Maybe I changed my mind about supporting 3. You know, Pi is the first two letters in the word Pimp...

Heidi

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

weird thought~ I don't have the software or real knowledge to do so.. but you can place information within an image~ I doubt there is anything in it- but someone could check out the logo image and see if there is any data in it


only thinking this because 'look closely"

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Hey,
I didnt think there would be any clue in the logo, and there wasnt :( n e ways i did put some hue & color filters on it and here are the results. Can u see somehting i didnt :eek:


Edit:- Sorry didnt know it violates rules, sorry for the trouble

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Since this thing has been growing faster than I can read tonight, I'll just jump in here.

John Neun and George Burns are the only two major league first basemen to pull off an unassisted triple play. This has been presented previously.

The reference to "beween Pi, and you and me" hasn't been as thoroughly investigated.

Pi Schwert was also an "old time" baseball player (also mentioned by one message). Played 1914-1915 as a catcher.

Does this mean the game has some relationship to baseball and what can happen between the catcher and the first baseman?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Or maybe the defensive team controls the scoring object like in baseball. Although, that might confuse the spectators.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I have no idea if anyone said this yet, but John Neuns career batting average is .325 and George Burns' is .303. If you average the two numbers you end up with .314(pi times 1/10). Perhaps pi is actually between them. I don't know if this means anything though.

EDIT: Also, perhaps ametheist refers to a third alliance. A purple one.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

John Neun (properly Johnny Neun) and George Burns are the only 1st basemen to ever complete a triple play single handedly in major league baseball.

Pi is a term from the printing industry (look it up) and comma (that little thing between 'Pi, You and Me') is also a musical term.

Amethyst is crystallized quartz with colour from purple to violet (anyone watch CSI?).

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Two things just occurred to me based on the repition of the Number three:

1. It's the number of Dale Earnhardt and Babe Ruth, Therefore this year's game will be called: First Frenzy: Nascar Baseball.

2. The scoring object will be triangular in shape.

Pete

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

It could be that Dave is giving us a real hint here, but he is making it so obvious that we wouldn't give credibility to it. His "Head Games" are really giving me a headache!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

As I sit here, reading this thread, I can't help but think about how much fun this must be for Dave and the guys at FIRST. I bet they are really finding it entertaining, as we are.

I'll see you all Saturday.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Amethyst... that makes me think purple...rain!

maybe prince will perform purple rain during the matches and the goal will be to see how many times you can change his name in 2 minutes. :] :] :]

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Here is a thought for you...

Going along with the unassisted triple play clue:

6 Robots on the field, 3 teams of 2 we will call them team A1, A2, B1, B2, C1, and C2. Large circular field with an IR sensor in the middle with some form of activation sensor. The round begins with teams A1, B1, and C1 active. A2, B2, and C2 are disabled. Autonomous mode as always begins in the first 15 seconds of the round. The objective...the active robots need to try to get to the center of the field to activate the sensor to enable their teamate. Once activated, the alliance partner is fully functional, non autonomous...even if its still in the initial 15 seconds of autonomous mode. If you do not make it to the center in 15 seconds, your partner is held disabled for another 15 seconds...or possibly just until you can manually drive to the center to activate them....its an unassisted triple play.

Imagine how cool that would make things. The advantage of being able to charge to the center in such a short amount of time would mean your alliance would get that much more non-autonomous free time. If you don't...that much more difficult for you to come back.

I'm still thinking there is a barrier in the game, but I kinda hope its something like this instead.

-Andy Grady

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

i don't know if this means much but the last time that the Red Sox had a team captain was the same year that George Burns turned in the unassisted triple play. I couldn't find who was the last captain for the Tigers but if someone knows what year it is let us know. i'm not sure if this is any help but i thought it could be.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Wait-a-minute...


(60 seconds later)
Looking at the past year's clue, and how little it actually told us about the game, then they're probably just telling us that we are going to be using balls with something in the middle. Maybe the balls have a U on one side and a me on the other side :rolleyes: . riiiiiiight.

neways, either just give up. ooor not. "the choice is yours, don't be late."


--------------
Now, al we need is lyrics, so I started some for you, Dave :) .

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Yeah.. seriously, I think I liked song lyrics better as a hint than what we got this year.. whatever reference it has. :rolleyes:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Shouldn't the bill of materials be out by now? Maybe they're keeping somthing secret. Or they're behind in posting. Or i just havn't seen it yet. :confused:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Maybe they want to make sure:

1.) The field design is set, last year the lip to retain the balls in the coral was added the night before kickoff.

2.) They have it correct and have adequete prints. Last year the prints and BOM released at the kickoff had several errors. I would rather they delay it a day or two after the kickoff and hve it correct the first time.

3.) They want us to go crazy. I remember seeing last year field BOM and saying, "Are we building a half pipe?"

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Amethyst Contrast Enhancement (A.C.E.) lenses were developed to improve discrimination between different colored objects on flight instrument panels.

Will we be 'looking closely' for different colored objects, perhaps in autonomous (unassisted) mode? Is Dave's long association with aviation-related subjects coming through here?

Or are they just jerking us around for the fun of it??

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Neither that, nor the specs for the 2005 Innovation FIRST control system is out yet..

Pretty odd.. eh?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

OR........ They are going to make us use the same controller from last year. IFI saves costs on the design of a new control system, and FIRST gets a better deal on them.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Okay so here is where i stand.

We will have 2 alliances with three team members per alliance. It will be held in a hexagonal field. It will have some kind of disk or circular object to score. possibly one team controls the object or objects and is scored on how long they hold on to it. idk.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think that its more obvious that they have not yet announced any major changes to the FIRST control system.

Last season was by no means the norm with the release of an entirely new control system, especially the different programming language. They had to give teams a heads up (and that was only really with the use of the edubo- robovation thing)

the controller will be the same as last year
my $.02

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Maybe not what they are holding! Between John, George and the Drum (pi) are Paul and Ringo. I don't know about Paul, but maybe the game has something to do with RINGS!

Or did someone already mention that?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Hm....this is all very interesting....although it seems like its going to end up much more simple than this....

After they release what it is, we are going to laugh at these guesses, unless someone actually guesses right!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Don't know if someone has posted this yet. The unassisted triple plays were completed when the first baseman touched second base.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Everyone is thinking that its going to be baseballs...how about baseball bats? These would be harder to handle than balls, thus providing more of a challenge.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

the bats could be really harmfull to other robots. and i can see somehow the game being described like battlebots and that would be really bad. I know every time i talk about FIRST i have to talk about how much better we are then battlebots. I think FIRST is going to try to stay to things that are mostly non harmfull, execpt the bins, but that would be really really cool to have to get bats or use them in someway.


my 2 cents

Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

It is my extravagant hypothesis that the purple gem is relating to people who generally wear rings and such items that have gems on them. The ring is in such a fashion that it is circular in nature. This circle in conjunction with cycles refers to a continuous loop in the programming. With loops established as an important entity, the field must thus be created in the shaped curvatures of an enormous donut. Although, the center circle, often referred to by high ranked historians as the 'donut hole', is not in the shape of a circle. Yes that is right, FIRST is trying to through us off with a doughnut hole not in a typical design, but rather we must look further into the riddle. The pi situation is not only that of a tasty cherry pie that can be eaten through la bouche. A pie is constructed in a pan in which you can find the circumference by applying a method known as the "angle referencing technique". You simply take two triangles, most usefully the George burns triangle and the John Neun triangle, and add up the sum of the angles you get 360 degrees. With a circle, there is 360 degrees of rotation and with the "angle referencing technique" giving us 360 degrees as well, we can approach the assumption that there will be a triangular donut hole. So now we have a large circular field perimeter and a triangle in the middle. FIRST, I am on to you.
The gem is also known as a purple type of stone that, when light is shone through it, the light is magically transformed into purple. Have you ever mixed red with blue, I bet not, but it becomes purple as well! With a blue alliance and a red alliance, mixing them would cause a purplish tint. The game must some how include some sort of working together between the alliances. What that task is exactly, well, FIRST made it quite clear. If it won’t for my vast knowledge in baseball, we would not be blessed with knowing that George Burns and John Neun are the only players to have completed a triple play. This is not to be looked to far into, overanalyzes can get you nowhere. Thus, to compete a purple task, both alliances must go to the baseball field, tangent to the circle field, and complete a triple play. Ha, FIRST, you can't get me.
:confused: If this is your reaction to my hypothesis, then I am sorry for my congruently advanced knowledge of FIRST robotics riddles. I have no choice but to leave you with this simple summary.
In summary of my life long career of studying FIRST, there will be a circular ring with some sort of triangle in the middle where you can complete a task that involves one robot from each alliance partner to achieve extra points.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

To be honest, I have discussed the hint with teammates and read the forum. I did not want to think toooo much in to the game because then I knew I would loose sight of it being a game. Here is what I have come up with.

Six sided prism. Maybe finding something on the field. Three "things", either moved, or placed somewhere. Human players must throw something on to the field as last year.

The things I have listed seem pretty certian. I have some other theories also: I like the idea of something being inside some type of a pyramid; I have seen a lot of beacons, maybe it could be the key to the game, something. Hexagonal shaped playing field could be it also. OR even!!!!!!!!!!!!! HAVING SOME TYPE OF PYRAMID WHICH ENCOMPASSES THE PLAYING FIELD THAT EVERYONE HAS TO LOOK THROUGH TO EVEN SEE THE PLAYING FIELD! THEN! three of something must be placed somewhere. Or three triggers must be turned on.... also, I believe hanging will come back this year!

Thanks for reading! Good luck to everyone's guesses! Good luck during the six weeks also.

Grant

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

that would be really cool to have a pyramid shape covering the top of the Field made plexi glass or something so people can see though it but still have it interact with the robots like them having to grab something in the top of it or hit things on the sides or something that would be really cool.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

A plexiglass encasement of the field would mean that a LOT of stuff would be flying EVERYWHERE. That would be both hectic and awesome.

Anyway, they may have hanging this year, again, but I doubt the will do it in nearly the same way as last year. Why? Because all the veteran teams will have a HUGE advantage over rookies in hanging. I know our team would just take the arm off our old bot and use it again.

Now, if they made the bar a few feet higher, that would pose a challenge.

But they wouldn't do something the same way two years in a row.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

dont you mean that your team would creat a arm that is very much like your lastyears bot that way you wont be breaking any rules about pre-kickoff fab of parts? :)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I still go with this... I believe 1. auto mode will be big and 2. 3vs 3 alliances... I could be completely wrong though...

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Baseballs are unlikely but what about whiffle balls??????

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Wiffle balls are WAY too easy to break. If you think Stack Attack was bad, then maybe we should try a game with Wiffle Balls to show that it could be WAY worse ^_^

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Keeping in mind that there is a good chance we are all way, way off, here's my 2 pennies.

It seems to me that all interpretations point towards three. Three teams, two alliances of three teams each, three alliances of two teams each. Bottom line is this:
I think we can expect to see a new team format, even though I doubt we will go without alliances.

The more I hear about three--and the hexagonal connection of amethyst--the more I think we're going away from the field that has been in play the last two years. I've not been with FIRST for longer than that time, but it would not surprise me if we went to a triangular, hexagonal, or--and I don't think I've seen anyone else mention this, which is surprising, given the amount of baseball stuff gloating around--a diamond. A diamond, after all, can be comprised of two triangular shapes, which would hint back to two teams again.

The field will not be circular, it is safe to say, because
A) Where do you put the teams?
B) It would be very, very difficult for a team to recreate such a field.

Point B should be taken into account by everyone who is saying BUT WHAT ABOUT THE GIANT PLEXIGLASS THINGY!. Remember: these fields are, traditionally, buildable to one degree or another.

I like the point of whoever said Pi as a symbol for a bridge. But I wonder, if we're going that far, why not look at the shapes of you and me as well? Will it be between those three? So, perhaps, a ditch?

I'd love to see baseballs being involved in the human player element, but I agree with whoever it was that said baseballs are too dangerous for this environment. As an ex-player and current aficionado, I agree sadly and totally.

--Petey

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

notice the clue says ametheist colored glasses. It says nothing about actual ametheist. I don't think that the field will be a hexagon. I think color recognition could be a part of the game though.

Going back to the Beatles(because I love them so much) rings make sense. Perhaps we need to collect rings and place them on a pole(or Paul) or something.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Maybe a triple play of setting off triggers during automonous mode will release rings early, and i love the idea of using music lyrics, pi, you and me, 3 .vs. 3 would seem logical for our regional, and would prove the reason for increase in the amt. of championship teams able to attend Atlanta.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't want to sound ridiculous, but don't you think that even Green Day's Insomniac album cover can fit these clues? (If it doesn't make sense to you, then just don't quote me). On another note, I've heard many a time around my home, a joke about my mother's boss telling her to take off her "Rose Colored Glasses" and see the truth. Is this hinting at difficulty viewing the field, perhaps IR-guided gameplay? Also, for the baseball players, they all got triples, and there seems to be some thought over 3 sides. The triples could mean, as someone above stated, that there may be a triple-trigger. Perhaps in autonomous, we have to avoid a central circle (thus explaining pi), which prevents your team from viewing the opponent directly across from you (Putting pi in between you and your opponent), and activate the three triggers, which were signified by triples-record. Then, the teams would, perhaps, do another basketball-style game where the object is to get as many of your colored balls into the central tube.

Cheers and good luck understanding this one!
-NiNJ4

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

How about Nerf balls?
You probably would need plexiglass sides if you get involved with pitching catching or hitting Nerf balls.
Sounds too complicated but it would be fun!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I can only imagine the teams shooting nerf guns at targets located on the field. That, my friends, would be chaos.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Okay, here goes nothing. Picture this a hexagonal shaped field. Each side has purple plexiglas. Control stations on each side.There 6 teams in 2 alliances. They are positioned alternately on the sides. In the center of the playing field is a circular hole. In the hole is 6 baskets. The baskets form a pyramid in the center. Each team must pass a ball from their station to a team mates basket creating a triple play. The human player may attempt to throw the ball to their team mates basket but risks scoring for their opponent. Any thoughts?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I havent slept in 2 days because ive been thinking about the clue too much. While it is fun to hypothesize, in the end, it wont matter come Sat. So ive given up trying to decypher the clue. Dave you win this year, but next year, when im in my dorm with nothing to do, ill be doing th same thing.

So i leave this...
weve had a class of 20 juniors and seniors taking this apart for days, and weve come up with no more than you guys have, in less than 30 pages :-)
I hate giving up, but im gonna have uncers over this one. At least Stairway to Heaven was possible. beatles to baseball. Im toast.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Had nothing better to do so I was looking at some info on John and George... saw something ... figured I'd share it so we could take it apart for a few days or whatever. Lol
John Neun and George Burns the baseball players share a common link other than their unassisted plays.... their middle name. Its Henry. Coincidence? I think not... this was a big conspiracy their mothers both created. :]

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I am thingking the the capitalizations of the Amethyst You and Me are referring to proper nouns. So therefore there might be somthing that is being referred to by Amethyst You and Me. They are probably not acronyms for anything, becuase they are not all capitalized. Can anyone else think of any references to You or Me as proper nouns instead of pronouns?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

what if... just to be weird and say this.. There is no initial autonomous mode,but there is an object obstructed from all of our views -that adds big points like the bar- and you have to put your robot in position to 'autonomously' complete a task~ you'll only know when the curtain is let down or whatever is blocking your view- look closely by using your IR sensor glasses and there is something between all of us
and dark side of the moon synches up with wizard of oz... but not really.. at all

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

My $.02 -

There seems to be lots of threes here; Amethyst has a hexagonal crystal shape; "Rose", Neun, and Burns all were connected to the same MLB team (the Reds). Neun and Burns mentioned specifically because of the triple play.

I expect three alliances because of the Pi. Rather than 3.14, Pi (radians)could be 180 degrees between alliance partners (you and me). This means a six-sided playing field, with the view between alliance members blocked by the center structure.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Of what I read and disscussed with others, a 6 sided field seems to be the most likely conclusion. But it just seems hard to determine if we are going to have 6 teams on the field at once (Blue, Red, and Purple [with alliances of 2 teams per side]) OR just 3 teams with one team per side. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages, but here's what I think:

The "Pi between you and me" seem to hint at allances of the field. Even thought allied teams would be right next to each other, they're still would be 360 degrees between them (if walking around the field in a circle).

But all this still leaves a blank slate for the rest of the game however....

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

is this like 2000 games where the robots are on the same side along with the drive teams?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

looking at the recent post and thinking more about the clue and everything that Dave has posted i have to agree with a few things that have recently been posted and some that have been here for a while.

1. The field has to be hexagonal in shape.
2. 3 alliances. I think it will be 3 teams of 2 just because of the higher team registration for regionals and the unofficial hint of '4 is not enough'.
3. We are still going to have an autonomous mode, just because it is a thing that FIRST has come to like, and i can't see them not having us have to program auto modes.
4. Just in response to the not seeing the field before we go on to it. It makes no sense, not to be mean but it doesn't. if you go out for a match FIRST is not going change it every time just so its different, that would be a hell of a lot of time to spend on changing the field, and we would only get in like 20 matches a day at that rate. So i think we will still be able to see the field before hand, and anyways how are they going to stop us from seeing the field while we wait for the match, plus we have to put the robot on the field so it would kinda not make sense to have the drivers station blocked off. however i do see them having a scoring device in front of the players station, idk something like a ramp or bar, or goal.. something.
5. IR sensor possible, but not likely needed. there could be different ways to program auto mode to do what you need than with IR sensors.

theres some more of my 2 cents.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

For everyone suggesting that you need special glasses to see the field or parts thereof, that will not happen. Too long has 'make for tv' been driving the design.


Wetzel

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

George Burns was also a comedian...

as for changing the field and not seeing it prior to play FIRST could do something like they did wil FLL and placing a part of the field in different places each time. This could tie in the human players like in '03 when they placed the boxes out the opposing alliences could place the boxes out for the other team... like the red alliance placeing something out for the blue.

Another thing is when they talk about between you and I the robots my need to pass things to their allience partners in order to score.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I don't know, man... The more I read that hint the more I think there's something about that "...if you look closely..." that is a major hint towards the game. If not glasses, then maybe some sort of sensor like a banner sensor on steroids, or something? I mean, the past two year's we've had some sort of visual sensing being a "part" of the game (2003: retroreflective tape on HP bins, and 2004: IR sensing near the 10 point balls), I sure as heck wouldn't be surprised to see this stuff again, or this idea taken to the next level. Who knows, maybe we'll have to drive our robots "Mars Rover" style, looking at instruments (dashboard) and a camera. If it's good enough for Dave and Mars, then why the heck can't we do it in competition? :p

<edit>
Since when was 2002 or 2003 good for television or for audiences? Secondly, imho, autonomous mode wastes a lot of audience excitement, since only a handful of teams have actually consistently been able do tasks during that time.
</edit>

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I heard something about Flying Monkeys and a Giant Pit, but I suppose that doesn't go along with the clues, unless the pit is round and filled with purple jello, which would make that correct.

I base my knowledge on with the loads of jello FIRST has bought, with my credit card.

Why do I let those FIRST people use my credit card? Just cause I have an unlimited credit limit, and I really can afford it, doesn't make it right. I should write a check instead, or better yet cash. Cash is always better, remember that when fund raising.

Good luck teams with this years competition. I recommend you invest in a giant spoon and rubber suits.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

One of my first thoughts for the game as far as lighting goes was black light since it has a purple (amethyst) glow (and if the field was practically unseeable due to this, and there were 3 alliances or 3 robots per alliance you could throw in 3 blind mice in keeping with the 3 theme but that's completely random and besides the point), however I didn't think of it seriously, not because of TV but because of the spectators in the audience. I think the field will remain largely visible, because having an exciting game can hook possible sponsors and additional volunteers and if the field cannot be seen this may not happen.

Heidi

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Finally... Someone (in their FIRST post here on Chiefdelphi) didn't repeat something that was already said in the last ~460 posts. I applaude you, and welcome you to CD.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Did anyone pick up on this clue?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Yes, It's Amethyst.. Been there, done that..

Try reading the whole thread before you post.. :D Or at least searching.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Elgin,
Are we in the presence of Dean? Is LordDumpling really who he registered as? Team 1038 will just use the rubber from the walls of our rooms they keep us locked in. For the giant spoons, we'll just use the ones we eat all of our PI filling with...can't wait to see the real game Saturday

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

OK so i have been thinking (scary I know) and I am going to apologize early for the harry potter refrence but... Pi never ends right? So maybe there isnt a time of 3 minutes like there has been every year... what if like in Harry Potter's quidditch(sp?) game a task HAD to be completed before the game could end like catching the golden snitch(sp?)?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Good catch, either that's Dean's first post on Delphi, or another CD pranxster. If it is, I always wondered if he missed out on all the traffic buzzing based on his creation.

Hi Dean ole buddy!

p.s. thanks for signing my shirt :p

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

There is a lot of speculation going though this thread and some of it is probably on the mark, and some of it not. I haven't read all 400+ posts yet, but there is somthing that I noticed that I haven't seen in a post yet.

Pi is the Greek letter "P" (duh!) and the 16th letter of the Greek alphabet. Looking at the clue, maybe "you" is the Greek letter Upsilon and "me" is the Greek letter Mu. Interestingly, Mu is the 12th letter of the alphabet and Upsilon is the 20th letter meaning that Pi is located exactly halfway between them. Looking inbetween the letter Upsilon, Mu and Pi are the following letters:

Mu M
Nu N
Xi X
Omicron O
Pi P
Rho R
Sigma S
Tau T
Upsilon U

This gives us the letters N, X, O, R, S and T.

Don't know if this means anything, just thought it was interesting.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Maybe the scoring system is based off the difference of you and your opponent and multiplied by pi and both alliances recieve that score.

Or maybe its the difference of the two alliances scores and the value of pi
-Pat

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I still think that its going to be 2 teams of three. If it were 3 teams of 2 this leads to teams easily being able to gang up on a single team. Although it could happen I don't like the idea of 3 teams.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Teams of three are practically guaranteed. The 2005 Championship Eligibility says there will be three Regional Champions at each regional event.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The 2005 Eligibility is referring to the 2004 tournament which had 3 winning teams. Two primary competitors and an alternate.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

The dark clouds (in my brain) parted and a beam of light cascaded down and then a voice speaks....
The darken returns in my mind and the state of confusion engulfs me again.
:eek:
Lord Dumpling?
I am really, really, really scared.

BTW- JELLO is the dessert you eat first!

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Actually the part of that page that says 3 regional winners per event has been altered - earlier it stated "to be determined based on the 2005 game." Now that this has been changed, it can probably be safely assumed that the 4 teams do not work together, because if they did 4 teams would win. Instead 3 teams win, which could be similar to last year with two competing and the alternate, or all 3 teams of the alliance out in every round. This would make for some interesting matches, especially if a robot broke during a match and a team was only able to go out with 2 or even 1 bot.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Hey Brandon, can you track the IP of LordDumpling? :)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I really can't see FIRST making an alliance in the elimination round play with all robots with no contingincy(spelling??) for a broken robot.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

There are always three winers and if people are going on the assumption that there are 3 things on the field than it would more than likely be 3 teams of 2. That would make more sense than having 2 teams of 3 because in elims if a bot broke there would be no replacement team. And it says that there is only 3 winning teams per regional, which also adds to the 3 teams of 2 instead of the other previously stated.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Is there any chance that the field could be shaped like a baseball diamond, and in the center be a circle in which the robots start?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Makes sense if they make a non-contact game that limits the possibility of damage during the competition.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

You must also realize that 2001 the game was almost no contact or roughing between the robots and it still had an extra robot so i think that you still need the extra robot, that is why i'm sticking by my thought of an extra robot.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I can envision this...something like 2v0+2v0, in effect like how the FLL fields are set up (one robot on one side, another on the flip side, and little or no interaction between them). Especially since FLL alumni are now well into the FRC phase of their lives. Redabot and Redderabot are on one side of the field, separated from Bluabot and Bluerabot by a fence or something that keeps robots from crossing over (or under). The challenge would then be adding some kind of offense or defense, to keep the game interesting--something like a ball- (or donut- or inflatable clown-) sized chute to the other side.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Pi is also the population proportion. Dave had a post that mentioned statistics a few days ago.


Wetzel

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I predict that the driver and operator will have to face away from the playing field during the match. This will require the use of something like a rear view mirror mounted above the player station. (That should add a lot to the excitement, especially when one should turn right or left!) I guess we will know come Saturday. :eek:

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I think this year will have three alliance teams. Last year was the red on one side and blue on the other with two teams on each alliance. I think this year it will be a red alliance, blue alliance, and a purple alliance each with two robots of course with a pyramaidal looking field.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

I know this has been mentioned several places already but here is a link to the info on John Neun & George Burns.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/feats/feats8.shtml

Pete

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Did you know that there were 2 guys named George Burns that played baseball? Yes, one did complete a triple play, the other didn't. What if the other George Burns had something else in common (between) himself and Johnny Nuen! So far - I have found out that they share the same middle name - Henry, for what its worth.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

ok, I have read all 480+ posts in this forum, and have noticed many repeats of ideas. To clear up some of the most common ideas, I have decided to compile them into one post.

note: most of these aren't my ideas, I am just compiling them

'"While wearing Amethyst colored glasses, John Neun gave George Burns the following riddle: "Look closely and you will see something between Pi, You and Me." '

~Amethyst - six sided purple crystal
__________- six sides could relate to a hexagonal or other shaped field
__________- purple is a combonation of red and blue
______________*possibility of a third neutral alliance
_______________*possibility of different alliances: 3v3 or 2v2v2
__________- related to infared
______________*special glasses, can see infared signal
______________*not true, impossible

~John Neun and George Burns
__________- First basemen
__________- both made unasisted triple plays
______________*relates both to three: more prof of different alliances
__________- average of thier batting averages is .314
__________- George Burns also an actor
______________*played God in Oh God series
______________*three movies made in series
~pi, not capitilized
__________- 3.1415...
__________- noted that a similarity between John, George and PI is 3
______________*even more proof to alliances
__________- relates to the pyramids
______________*possiblity of a pyramid object in the center
______________*possiblity of a pyramid shaped playing field (3 sides)

~Pi, capitialized
__________- means 'product'
__________- not capitalized in the clue
__________- possiblity of winners getting the product of their and opponents socres

~Grammer
__________- "difference between pi, you and me"
__________- perfectly fine
______________*me can be used because there is no verb after it
______________*a comma is not necessasry between you and, 'and'
__________- brings up a question
______________*is there a difference between all three
______________*or a difference between pi, and then you and me


I hope this helps, please look before you post

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

As I said earlier, the clue clearly states "amethiest colored glasses" They aren't real ametheist, just colored, probably purple.

I belive it will be a 3v3 match, as 3 alliances would be too complicated on a rectangular field(as I still believe it is).

The game must have something to do with performing a triple play by yourself. I also think some sort of color recognition during autonomous mode may be put into play.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

If you compare the highest career batting averages of Johnny Neun (.325) and George Burns (.303) you will find that Pi lies exactly halfway between the two numbers. So we think that since Pi is the two batting averages, the robots will have to hit something.
:D
TRx 145

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Especially in light of the last post, I'd like to take this time to state my opinion that whoever wrote this hint is probably laughing hysterically at how much we are analyzing it.

--Petey

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

OK, so about this album thing - here are the titles from the album Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band.
With a little help from my friends - alliances?
Diamonds - Another crystallized rock.
64 - lets see.... 2^6 just trying to brainstorm - 6/2 = 3, two teams, 3 in alliance, 6 sided object and/or field
also, Lonely Hearts, without you- could this mean something about no alliance?

Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band
With A Little Help From My Friends
Lucy In The Sky With Diamonds
Getting Better
Fixing A Hole
She's Leaving Home
Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite!
Within You Without You
When I'm Sixty Four
Lovely Rita
Good Morning Good Morning
Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band (Reprise)


any other ideas?

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

yeah i think theres a comedian named george burns

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

You have that backwards, pi is 3.14 and Pi is product while in the clue, Pi was used.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

ok...another thing.
Looking through Amethyst glasses, can you tell the difference between red and blue?
What if the drivers have to wear glasses with purple tint and the alliances were not disclosed. Then, everybody would have to find who their alliance. What a nightmare this could be but there were always complaints about pre-strategizing by some people. I'm not so sure of how far in depth they will go with this but imagine sitting in the stands, knowing who is allianced and watching your drivers play the game not knowing their alliance. Also, last year F.I.R.S.T made the new RC's that they can change the color through their controls, allowing know one to know alliances until the game began. Let me know what you think.

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Yes, it has been said MANY times in this thread: George Burns is a comedian.

Not only was he a comedian, but he was a VERY WELL-KNOWN comedian. If you don't believe me, ask your parents or grandparents who he is. I remember watching the "Oh God!" movies when I was little. I've known who George Burns was for years.

George Burns the actor lived to be exactly 100 years old. He stared in the very popular Oh God! movie series. He also narrated the "Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band" movie. Hence the Beatles connection to the Hint and the reason that everyone keeps mentioning the Sgt. Pepper album in particular.

For more info, please go here: All the info you'd EVER want on George Burns the COMEDIAN

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Looking at the Advance Material list i think we are over thinking this clue. Orangeish yellow paint? Magnets? Grease? I don't think we have come up with any ideas that are even close looking at this list. I dunno may just be me

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Whoops! I'm sorry you are right, I had it right before, but my computer kicked me off, and I had to re-type that whole thing, thanks for that

yes, all famous George Burns' have been mentioned

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Actually.. Yellowish Paint.

Beatles reference - Yellow Submarine
edit: Sgt. Pepper is similar to the character in the game Clue's Col. Mustard

Pyramids reference - Usually seen as a yellow or goldish color on images

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

Hm, guys. Maybe first just wants to do a whole, big Beatle's escapade of a game?

Only a few more days....

(btw list is on the Advanced materials thread)

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

that glasses idea would add a great twist, but after one game everyone would know the difference, unless the robots emmit a light like last year, but its only visable with the glasses

Re: Official 2005 Clue Thread
 

God, this is weird. I feel so insignificant when I see the progress made. One small contribution, if it hasn't been mentioned.
An alternate definition of "pi" is
Main Entry: 3pi
Function: adjective
1 : not intended to appear in final printing <pi lines>
2 : capable of being inserted only by hand <pi characters