Re: Concerns regarding the green paneling/green shirts
 

I'm with the esteemed Mr. Lavery on this one. Intentionally screwing up other teams is clearly against the rules. As a senior mentor I need to know more about how the camera functions, how precise it is at picking up colors and shades, and how much it affects traditionally green teams like MOE, Swampthing, etc. so I can help the teams in my region. There is no need for any further conversation on what is or isn't gracious professionalism. To most of us, that is obvious. If anyone wants to debate the GP of this situation, please PM me or call me, but keep it out of this thread so those who need the vital information can get it.

Re: Concerns regarding the green paneling/green shirts
 

I'll just say that the whole reason this is coming up is because the Q&A is unclear on this and frankly contradictory. Dave's interpretation was, in fact, my original reading of R26. However, the answers to Q.981 and Q.982 say that nothing, nothing will be done to ensure that teams do not paint their robots or outfit their team in a color that can interfere with the vision system. No precautions will be taken or will need to be taken. Teams will not have to restrict the color that they paint their robot. These two answers seem crystal clear to me in the exact opposite direction. I will be more than happy to concede the point if FIRST changes these answers or clarifies them, but right now the Q&A says to me that I can paint my robot whatever color I like, however I like, including a vision tetra green panel.

As I've noted, I have a question in the Q&A that would answer this once and for all. I've put it there because I beleive the rules and Q&A are at odds now and that the Q&A answers in place make this strategy legal.

I'll also note that I'm bringing it up because I'm certain that teams will be VERY highly annoyed if another team paints their robot green and distracts them from the tetra, even unintentionally. They will point to Q.981 and say that the Q&A says that they didn't have to worry about green robots running around the field. I think there needs to be some real definitive stuff here instead of two one word answers.

Re: Concerns regarding the green paneling/green shirts
 

The rules are still the final arbiter of what is legal. Unless and until a team update changes the rule making intentional disruption of the vision system illegal, intentionally disrupting the vision system is illegal.

The Q&A doesn't say teams can relax and not worry about green robots. It merely says that the officials aren't going to insist on a team repainting its robot. That should tell you that you do have to consider the possibility of there being a green robot on the field.

Re: Concerns regarding the green paneling/green shirts
 

Intent isn't so simple a question.

R26 could be construed in two separate ways, depending on how lawyerly you were feeling that day.

If you painted your robot in such a manner as to confuse the robot's sensors, you would be acting in a forbidden matter.

However, it could be argued that, if you didn't change the color, and you knew your color would throw off the opposing robot, it could be convincingly argued that you were intentionally and dangerously negligent.

It's all in how they determine "the spirit of the rules".

--Petey

Re: Concerns regarding the green paneling/green shirts
 

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Not necessarily--

My question only asks whether or not there will be precautions taken against it, or whether precautions need to be taken against it. There may be no rules that forbid teams outside of R26, but they may still enforce R26.

Just a thought.
Please cite--wording, and ID, so I can check.
I agree.

--Petey

Re: Concerns regarding the green paneling/green shirts
 

Dave and Rich,
I guess no one is listening as the discussion continues. So I will add my two cents...

If you have never played around with color cameras or you have never played around with color object recognition or you have never studied reflected light in a component video world, then please stop posting about this subject. Veterans and rookies alike need useful data about camera operation and rule interpretation. The rules as Dave has pointed out, are not open for interpretation, GP or not.
If you have several hours of hard data using this camera recognizing the shape and color objects on the field (including field lighting) and would like to share, please do.

Re: Concerns regarding the green paneling/green shirts
 

Al, Dave--

I think teams are worried, more than anything else, that if they paint their robot green, blue, red, or yellow (as their team colors normally are), and they unintentionally interfere with the operation of an opposing video camera, they will be excused of operating with ulterior motives.

They are seeking pre-decoration clarification, not pre-emptive absolution.

I will see if the Controls subteam on my team can record some video data quickly so we can get some more information about this.

--Petey

Re: Concerns regarding the green paneling/green shirts
 

Excellent, we all need hard data about the camera, it's capabilities, and how this will play out for most teams. People are appropriately concerned, but we need to know of the real issues and how to resolve them. Squabbling about what's right (when it's obvious to most) is a waste of time and space. Let's see real, credible data about what the camera can do with colors and shapes and the reliability/repeatability of its function during autonomous mode. Thanks Al and Dave for getting this back on track. Stick to the camera and how it works so this thread is fully useful to teams. The clock is ticking and we all need answers, so get to work ... and have fun too.

Let's move this MEANINGFUL conversation to the programming forum... two good threads are already started about the camera. Post your technical data/questions there. Al has already posted there and so have others. Thanks.