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Levin571 08-01-2005 15:08
Basic Game Breakdown
 
All information obtained through the game manual and the introduction video and put together in the noggin of Adam Levin

Game Elements and field design and robot design-
-Match is now 2 minutes 15 seconds long
-Tetrahedron shaped goals are placed around the field in 3 rows of 3 like a tic-tac-toe board
-Teams are now 3 VS 3

-field is 27ft by 54 ft
-scoring objects are smaller tetrahedrons called tetras (regular tetras are about 8 1/2 pounds and vision tetras are 12 1/2 pounds)
-there are 8 lower tetras that stand at about 5 1/4 ft tall
-one center tetra goal is elevated on a 43 inch tall base and will be about 7 feet from top of the tetrahedron to the bottom of the base
-there are also 2 attendent tetra loading stations placed around the field
-there are 2 manual (human player controled) loading stations on the other side of the field
-there are 2 special Vision Tertas placed randomly on the field just before autonomous starts
-robots must not exceed 28x38x60 in tall
Autonomous Mode-

-During Autonomous your robot can pick up a special vision tetra and place it on a goal for bonus points
-another option is the there are 2 hanging tetras on either corner goal that the robot can know down for extra points
-bonus points are added to your corner goals between end of autonomous time and human controled time
-for extra points during autonomous vision tetras mustbe placed on any of the 3 center goal or the 2 corner ones on your side of the field

Human Player Element-

-Human players (1 from each alliance) are standing on pressure pad "mats" on the side of the field
-If human steps off this pad any time during the match, your robot is disabled until the human goes back on the mat.
-with the 2 manual (human player controled) loading stations, when a robot goes onto the loading symbol the human can step off the mat and place a tetra manually on the robot and then return to the mat to reativate the robot once again
-when loading a tetra, the human may have no contact with the robot

Game Play-

-Robots must place the tetras on top of the goals
-The loading stations will be opperated by a field attendant and when a robot takes a tetra from this station it will be replaced with another by the field attendant but they may be oriented differently each time
-
your robot cannot interfere with opposing robot while ANY part of it is touching the loading zone
-
you may only be given 1 terra at a time by the human player (though it looks like you can just go back on and off the loading zone repeatedly and keep collecting tetras)
-
robots cannot "grab, grasp, grapple, or attach to the GOALS or any other field structure"
-
after autonomous robots can place tetras on any goal on the field
-
to make a row your colored tetra must be the top tetra on the stack or every goal in that specific goal
-
opponents may counter a row by placing one of their colored tetras on top of yours

Scoring-

3
points for each tetra stacked on top of a goal (in order to be concidered stacked one must ask that if the supporting objec is removed will the tetra still remain on the goal)
1
point for each tetre placed on floor in base of the goal (tetras must not be touching any area outside the containment area under the goal)
10
points for each row of tetras you make when you colored one is the top one on the stack
10
points if all 3 robots in your alliance are behind the starting line at the end of the match





This is just the bear bones but this can be a huge help for the time being.

Avarik 08-01-2005 15:29
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Can you make a stack of tetras, or carry around more then one at a time? What about grabbing one from the attendent loading zones (not the human player ones) and waiting for them to reload to grab another?

Levin571 08-01-2005 15:40
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
"A field attendant will be positioned behind the Tetra Loading Station, and will place a Tetra on the loading station each time one is removed by a Robot. Minor variations in the precise position and orientation of the Tetra on the Tetra Loading Station are to be expected, and are considered part of the challenge of the competition."



So from what i can interpret you can just keep going back on and off the loading area and keep collecting those terra's and i would expect you to be able to carry more than one at once since i'm looking through the rule and see nothing contrary to that

MisterX 08-01-2005 15:46
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avarik
Can you make a stack of tetras, or carry around more then one at a time? What about grabbing one from the attendent loading zones (not the human player ones) and waiting for them to reload to grab another?
As far as waiting, G17 states that the robot must leave the loading zone and return beforebeing allowed to grab another tetra

anna~marie 08-01-2005 16:13
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
is there a limit to the number of tetras allowed on the field?

Levin571 08-01-2005 16:25
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
considering the idea that every tetra could theoretically be used to score it seems that there is no limit to the amount that can be in play at once. it mostly depends on how quick you are and if you want a whole lot of tetras on the field

kevin.fort 08-01-2005 16:43
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anna~marie
is there a limit to the number of tetras allowed on the field?
well there is a total of 40 tetras at each game but i am fairly sure that you can have all of them on the field at once. at least i have read the rules and it doesnt say anything about haveing a limit

Christine G. 08-01-2005 17:01
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin.fort
well there is a total of 40 tetras at each game but i am fairly sure that you can have all of them on the field at once. at least i have read the rules and it doesnt say anything about haveing a limit
What is the starting position of the 40 tetras? How many do the human players start with and how many are there for the Auto Loading station?

Levin571 08-01-2005 17:06
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
from what i've read so far 4 start on field, and the rest are split between human and auto loading station
remember that if you get a bonus during autonomous, some more are added automatically to your corner goals

Adam Richards 08-01-2005 17:10
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levin571
from what i've read so far 4 start on field, and the rest are split between human and auto loading station
remember that if you get a bonus during autonomous, some more are added automatically to your corner goals
Actually, four vision tetras (the ones with neon green for sensors) are on the field (two red, two blue), and four tetras are hanging from the exterior goals (two red, two blue).

phrontist 08-01-2005 17:12
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Do you actually have to CAP the vision tetras, or can you put them in the goal to get the bonus tetras?

663.keith 08-01-2005 17:14
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
don't forget about the tetra that one robot can start with

my interpretation is that you need to cap the goal with the vision tetra

Levin571 08-01-2005 17:16
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
<G10> If during the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD a VISION TETRA is STACKED on a GOAL located on the edge of the field, a bonus TETRA will be STACKED on the nearest corner GOAL in the alliance END ZONE. If during the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD a VISION TETRA is STACKED on the CENTER GOAL, a bonus TETRA will be placed on both corner GOALS in the alliance END ZONE. All bonus TETRAS will be STACKED on the GOALS by field attendants at the earliest safe opportunity after the end of the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD. Once the AUTONOMOUS PERIOD ends, all VISION TETRAS are treated and SCORED as regular TETRAS for the remainder of the match.

Ken Loyd 08-01-2005 17:53
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Does Rule G15 mean that if my robot bumps a robot in a loading zone during auto mode, I will be punished?

Ken

Adam Richards 08-01-2005 18:05
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
No, the LOADING ZONEs are the areas for the robot to pick up tetras, either handed from the players at the "manual" loading zone, at which point it's disabled due to pressure pads, or for the robot to pick up tetras itself at the "automatic" loading zone. The autonomous period is for the robot to pick up vision tetras by itself, or position itself near or on one of the pressure pads for you to hand one to it after the autonomous period once it switches into the driver period, if you can't get the camera to work properly for you.

Because of this, it is very doubtful that you'll actually bump a robot during the autonomous period unless the robot color is the same blue, red, or green that the tetras are, in which case, it'll probably be up to the judges as to whose fault it is.

Levin571 08-01-2005 18:27
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
I think rule G15 will be lightened up a little bit when we get to our first competition because everyone knows that accidental bumping happens, and usually rulings like that aren't the first idea that comes to a ref's mind

Levin571 08-01-2005 20:21
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
i haven't finished looking over all the rules yet but can a robot go on top of another robot of its alliance at the end of the round so everyone is in the score zone?

lpramo55 08-01-2005 20:30
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Levin571
i haven't finished looking over all the rules yet but can a robot go on top of another robot of its alliance at the end of the round so everyone is in the score zone?
i havnt seen anything in the rules that have said otherwise but im pretty sure they would let that count as all robots behind the line...my question is a more interesting one...can you be hanging over the line? or does the robot have to be behing the plane of the line

Adam Richards 08-01-2005 20:34
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpramo55
i havnt seen anything in the rules that have said otherwise but im pretty sure they would let that count as all robots behind the line...my question is a more interesting one...can you be hanging over the line? or does the robot have to be behing the plane of the line
All 3 robots have to be behind the line. You're allowed to push disabled teammates in, or nudge ones who aren't behind the line completely, as seen in the animation from the kickoff.

Christine G. 08-01-2005 20:48
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nartak
All 3 robots have to be behind the line. You're allowed to push disabled teammates in, or nudge ones who aren't behind the line completely, as seen in the animation from the kickoff.
But can you go under or into the goals in the end zone so that all robots fit?

Adam Richards 08-01-2005 20:56
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christine G.
But can you go under or into the goals in the end zone so that all robots fit?
You'd have to go over a PVC pipe to do that. Also, I have to correct myself. In my haste, I skipped over part of the rule on the end zone. You are allowed to be hanging over, but no part may be touching the ground outside of the end zone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FIRST Rules 2005 Section 4
A ROBOT is not considered in the END ZONE if it is touching the fieldoutside the defined END ZONE border. The tape line designating the END ZONE border is onsidered “in” the END ZONE.

rangersteve 08-01-2005 20:56
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
how many bonus points do u get for capping with the vision tetra and knocking off the hanging tetras???

greencactus3 08-01-2005 20:57
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lpramo55
i havnt seen anything in the rules that have said otherwise but im pretty sure they would let that count as all robots behind the line...my question is a more interesting one...can you be hanging over the line? or does the robot have to be behing the plane of the line
well in the animation the short robot lifted one wheel to be behind the line, as in no contact with the ground past the line but hanging over the plane, so i would think yes its ok.

Matt Krass 08-01-2005 21:10
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nartak
You'd have to go over a PVC pipe to do that. Also, I have to correct myself. In my haste, I skipped over part of the rule on the end zone. You are allowed to be hanging over, but no part may be touching the ground outside of the end zone.
I'm not sure if you were implying going over a PVC pipe made that illegal, according to the following rule I don't believe it is:

<G20> ROBOTS may push or react against any elements of the field, provided there is no damage or disruption of the field elements. ROBOTS may not grab, grasp, grapple or attach to the GOALS or any other field structure. Robots may not extend under, lift up or tip over a GOAL. If a ROBOT violates this rule, the referee will give one warning. If the referee determines that the team is disregarding the warning, or the actions affect the outcome of the match, the team’s ROBOT will be disabled for the remainder of the match. If a GOAL is tipped over, it is automatically OWNED by the opposing alliance for the remainder of the match.

I don't think driving over it counts as grabbing, grasping, grappling or attaching, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Christine G. 08-01-2005 21:21
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Krass
I'm not sure if you were implying going over a PVC pipe made that illegal, according to the following rule I don't believe it is:

<G20> ROBOTS may push or react against any elements of the field, provided there is no damage or disruption of the field elements. ROBOTS may not grab, grasp, grapple or attach to the GOALS or any other field structure. Robots may not extend under, lift up or tip over a GOAL. If a ROBOT violates this rule, the referee will give one warning. If the referee determines that the team is disregarding the warning, or the actions affect the outcome of the match, the team’s ROBOT will be disabled for the remainder of the match. If a GOAL is tipped over, it is automatically OWNED by the opposing alliance for the remainder of the match.

I don't think driving over it counts as grabbing, grasping, grappling or attaching, please correct me if I'm wrong.
But what about the "Robots may not extend under"...does that mean you cannot drive under or you cannot expand your robot under as to lift the goal?

Mike Ounsworth 08-01-2005 21:52
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
I appologise for posting needlessly, but I'm having troubles finding info on this new 'fixit window' rule, could someone please enlighten me?

Levin571 08-01-2005 21:54
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
i see a loophole... that might be a good area to take advantage of until someone in high ranks notices that and makes an update to it

ebenhopwil 08-01-2005 22:27
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
If a robot has to leave the loading zone and re-enter in order to receive another tetra, can it come back with the original tetra still on board, so that it eventually gets a stack of tetras, which it can cap on a goal all at once? Is that legal?

Mikey229 08-01-2005 22:33
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
I've read the rules many times alrdy. And i have not seen a part where it says you cant so, yes you could have a stack.

Levin571 08-01-2005 22:36
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
hard part will be lifting the stack since each one is 8 1/2 pounds so after 2 or 3 that thing gets pretty heavy

David Hoff 08-01-2005 22:39
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Ounsworth
I appologise for posting needlessly, but I'm having troubles finding info on this new 'fixit window' rule, could someone please enlighten me?
For info about the fix-it window Read R13 on page 10 in Section 5 of the manual.

AmyPrib 08-01-2005 23:21
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Just a note - there is a ton of rules explanations and clarifications and questions in the "rules/strategies" thread...
But.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by greencactus3
well in the animation the short robot lifted one wheel to be behind the line, as in no contact with the ground past the line but hanging over the plane, so i would think yes its ok.
Hanging over should be ok.. It says you're not in the endzone if you're touching the field beyond the white line. So if an arm is hanging over the white line, but not touching the field, then that should be ok.

Quote:
But can you go under or into the goals in the end zone so that all robots fit?.
I don't see why not. Roll over the goal pipe, and you should be ok. I have not seen any clear rule that says you can't drive under, or go under, the goals.

Quote:
how many bonus points do u get for capping with the vision tetra and knocking off the hanging tetras???.
You don't get bonus points, you get bonus tetras placed on your corner goal(s). You don't get bonus points for knocking off the hanging tetra, it just comes into play much sooner than if you don't knock it off.. (it'll be removed from field if you don't knock off in auto).

Quote:
But what about the "Robots may not extend under"...does that mean you cannot drive under or you cannot expand your robot under as to lift the goal?.
I believe "under" does not mean you can't drive thru or go inside a goal. I would think extend under is in context with the tipping/lifting of a goal, meaning you can't lift or tip the goal by ripping it's bottom leg from it's velcro secure.
If you couldn't extend under a goal at all, you would have a tough time getting the tetras under the goal, or removing them from under a goal ("contained" in a goal)... which is all legal.. so that's my take..

Levin571 08-01-2005 23:29
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
it mentions tipping as a no-no but if nothing is said about lifting, that could make some very interesting robot designs

Michael Hill 08-01-2005 23:30
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
How will the tetras be distributed in the beginning? I would guess 5 on the field (2 hanging, 2 vision, and 1 robot), then the other 35 be distributed as follows (7 to each team in the alliance (21), and 7 for each manual station (14).) What would happen if one station or human player runs out? Do they take tetras from the "automatic" despenser or what? For example, if an automatic despenser field attendant runs out of tetras, will s/he take tetras from the human players?

AmyPrib 08-01-2005 23:35
Re: Basic Game Breakdown
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Hill
How will the tetras be distributed in the beginning? I would guess 5 on the field (2 hanging, 2 vision, and 1 robot), then the other 35 be distributed as follows (7 to each team in the alliance (21), and 7 for each manual station (14).) What would happen if one station or human player runs out? Do they take tetras from the "automatic" despenser or what? For example, if an automatic despenser field attendant runs out of tetras, will s/he take tetras from the human players?
Michael - this is all answered in the rules/strategy section.
Please read that for tons of information.
40 tetras per color... 4 automatically start on the field.. with the5th possible on the robot if you choose.
Dave Lavery posted in the other thread that they will try to keep the HP and auto load zone quanitites balanced at all times. So they will try not to totally deplete one side, and keep both side flowing.

Levin571 - it does clearly say no lifting.


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