Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

What do you think?

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

tic-tac-toe

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

thats what i was thinking that Dave and the rest of the design committee must have gotten really stressed trying to think of a new game and decided to play tic-tack-toe and then it dawned on them, "this could be a great game but first we have to make it extremely complicated and with stuff no one has worked with before." :) or maybe they just thought of a cool game and it just happened to be similar to tic-tack-toe. i think the most important part of the game is what you do in auto mode.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

The tetras, definitely. :-P

Prolly waiting till the last minute to cap. I think thats gonna be an issue.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

The most important aspect of 2005 is....
is...
is..hmmm...not very easy to see.

You have an opportunity to score small helpings of 1 and 3 points for placing in or capping tetras with their smaller others. But that can be cancelled out by the 'ownership' of a row of tetra goals, and even that can be cancelled out by alliances being in their end zones at end of match. However, that too can be cancelled out by multiple cappings and placments of tetras in the right spot.
In short, everything can override everything else.

It is a VERY balanced game.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

I agree.
The ability to control the filed of play (whether due to agressive offense due to speed, agility and a good loading system or via defense by muscling around other robots with raw power but fast enough to chase down other robots and control their ability to put tetras on the tetrahedrons).

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

I for one do not think this game is like tic-tac-toe, there is waay more strategy involved (I literally can not lose a game of tic-tac-toe).

I believe that most teams will go for a line along thier endzone, and mostly worry about getting a lot of tetras on the goals (or in them).

Auto mode is very important this year, but I don't see it as a major deciding point in the game, I imagine few teams will be able to find a tetra, grab the tetra, find a goal, and cap the goal (successfully) within 15 seconds. I am not saying it is impossible, but I can see it mostly hit or miss. I can't wait, this is going to be fun

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

I agree, but I think there is going to be a greater emphasis on arm design; the performance and capability of it then perhaps the base drive train. Reason for, the arm(s) are going to be a whole lot more work this year then last and have a greater chance of failing or becoming damaged during a match.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

The most important aspect will be racking the tetras up and goign for the big stack, as in 4+. A row only nets you 10 points, and so does having all your robots behind the line at the end. If you can put up seven tetras you can negate all those points for the opposing alliance.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

For the poll i put capping, but only because that was the closest to how we feel thusfar. Tetra herding, actually controlling your, and maybe your opponents as well, tetras is what we see as important. This is coupled with defence(and we have an potentially devestating defensive strategy in the works, which may or may not find its way onto this forum, that helps stress capping and control). If you can control and herd the tetras, you have a source of points at your disposal, that you can use whenever you feel like, including the last minute. Especially if you have a system that can cap one or more tetras(or goals) at once, allowing for a rush of last minute rows and caps. Or if capping is out of the question, a quick dump allows you to gain several points underneath a goal.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

It is tought to tell the most important element
teamwork is definitly very important b/c it could be a good strategy to have one robot play defense whil ethe other two score
but auto mode is very important and so is the arm or whatever you use to move the tetras

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I think that this game has many ways to win and because it will prolly be a low scoring game every point will matter, but i put autonomous. That seems like a big aspect!

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Also, don't forget that putting one of the vision tetras on top of the center goal will give you two BONUS tetras on your alliance's side corner goals. That's 9 points!! Plus, they put you in a good position to score rows.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

The center tetra could very well be the most important part of the game

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the center goal controls 4 different rows, yeah, its a major factor...

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

Here's the breakdown:

Maximum possible team score: 216 pts

A. Stacking a tetra:
3 pts / 1 tetra, up to 40 tetras * 3 pts = 120 pts

B. Putting a tetro inside a goal:
1 pts / 1 tetra, up to 40 tetras * 1 pts = 40 pts

C. Scoring a vision tetra on one of the outside middle goals:
6 pts / 1 tetra, up to 2 vision tetras * 6 pts = 12 pts

D. Scoring a vision tetra on the center goal:
9 pts / 1 tetra, up to 2 vision tetras * 9 pts = 18 pts

E. Scoring one row of tic-tac-toe:
19 pts / 3 tetras or about 6 pts / 1 tetra

F. Scoring two intersecting rows of tic-tac-toe:
24 pts / 5 tetras or about 5 pts / 1 tetra

(Note: tic-tac-toe gets you up to 107 pts / 9 tetras or about 11 pts / 1 tetra, if you get every possible row)

G. End zone:
10 pts / 3 robots, which we'll say is equivalent to about the same level of effort as 3 pts / 1 tetra

This list doesn't take into account the magnetically suspended tetras and many tic-tac-toe configurations.

Clearly, tic-tac-toe can give you the most bang for your buck, but not always. Tic-tac-toe in items E and F are only worth two stacked tetras.

It looks like A will be the most straightforward way to get most of your score, but C and especially D can make a big difference. But G can also decide a match. For that matter, any one of A through G can easily decide any match.

Although A is not the most efficient way to score, it is probably the most feasible way to score a lot.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

Defense and herding are key here. I think we are overestimating the amount of teams that will be able to reliably cap multiple tetras. Think about how long some teams took to cap last year, and then add more edges/having to be perfectly aligned with the top of the goals. Thus, in many matches, especially in the earlier rounds, while some teams that did not get much driver practicing in are getting used to their robots still, there will not be much capping going on. However, herding tetras into goals will be a lot more feasible, and, if there is nothing stacked on top, you can still make tic-tac-toes with tetras in the goal for extra points. Manipulating the tetras is not going to be an easy task. As for defense, it is always integral to the game. All robots should be built hardily and should be able to effectively block other robots. Control of the center, whether it be through capping or herding, will be key here, and we should see a lot of last minute shoving matches here, where capping the center can result in many-point swings.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

As I read the rules i beleave that it says that u get points just for haveing a tetra on top it doesnt have to be the top on it just has to be on. I could be wrong ill check with Dave tomarrow. But i think the most important aspect is just being able to get the tertas-themselfs ask fast and effeciently as possible so that they are there to use.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

None of the above.

Tetra manipulation. Plain and simple.

Although, if it had to be one of those choices, it would be tetra stacking.

--Petey

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every tetra you get onto a goal counts as points for you.

It has to be on top to count as a row though

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I'm wondering if what wins football games will end up being the factor in winning a robotics match. Using defense in many ways could assist teammates as they cap, go for the tic-tac-toe, etc. I am expecting the final moments of the game to be intense, and my money is that a robot with serious shoving power teamed up with bots with other capabilities will be a lethal combination.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

I think the biggest problem is going to be the 3+3 Teams. This forces the teams extremely to work together and to dependent.
For me the most important point is that the robots have to be universal in the design but run specific tasks during the competition.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

Why do we keep saying tic-tac-toe? It reminds me of bingo, but with 3 per row :P

I think the stacking's one of the most important aspects. If you can get your robot to hold the tetras relatively stable-y AND stack while collecting (go in and out of the loading zone, collecting more than one tetra and forming a stack before you put it onto the goals) ... you've got a pretty good advantage there.

Then again, they're pretty heavy to keep holding.

And I have no idea how such an arm mechanism would work.

.. But anything's possible!

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

Because of the initial height of the center goal I think capping will only be important there for 2 or three tetras. Beyond that, the weight and size limits of the robots and the weight of the tetras will not allow an articulated arm or lifting platform to get high enough to put any more on. What if you were the first one to cap the center and then defended it vigorously while completing rows?
:rolleyes:

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

I think that the game is more a combination of Tic-Tac-Toe and Othello. The combination is very easy to understand and play, but very hard to win, and lots of strategies available, some of which are actually going to win!!

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

really? i would think capping tetras would be easier than big balls assuming you have a reliable method of lifting a heavier tetra. and you can cap from any direction not only one side. and if you get the goal tetrahedron tip anywhere inside the bottomside triangle frame of a tetra , you just drop and itll stay.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

tic-tac-toe and being able to cap

First you need a robot that can cap
Second to have the strategy to make the tic tac toe

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No Question,
Tetra capping is harder, but it's unreversable and how many points can you score in autonomous mode? If any robot scores more than three single handedly, I will marry that robot.

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The most important thing to me is capping the center goal in autonomous mode with the vision tetra. Once that one is capped during that time you get 2 tetras placed on your goals, at that point you then have control of 3 goals and easily can make a row by capping your own goal in the middle against the wall.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

I don't think I understand that comment. You don't get a "row" unless it's stacked on top.. You can't get a row using a tetra just sitting underneath a goal.
Maybe I just mis-read your comment....

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

If you watch the people-playing-robots part of Kickoff you'll notice that after auton red has a row by having two capped and one under. They got the two capped by getting the center capped by a vision tetra. Having a tetra under a goal will count for a row, but if an opposing color is placed on top, it doesn't count. The highest tetra has possesion of the goal for scoring a row.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

Untrue, you have 'owned' a goal..if you have onw below until someone else caps

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

are you sure i dont remember that anywhere in thr rules.
anyway whats the likelihood that noone will put one on top

if you can plz post the rule to clarify

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

teamwork is even more important this year i agree along w/ making the rows

i think also you have to some how defend your home area so that prevents a few rows forming

but yes if you have u'r tetra underneath you own it till someone caps it--that's why the hanging ones in auto mode can be important (sry dunno what rule that is)

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

How is that any different? ;)

I think that the most important thing here is going to be having a team of three robots that work well together, just as it has been in the past few games. Teamwork is what you'll need to win, right?

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

I've got an idea, but as it is it's too complicated to build. Imagine a telescoping arm consisting of several conveyor belts, studded with pins from which tetras can hang. As a conveyor belt reaches the end of one length of the arm, the tetra is handed off to the next length. You load tetras from some sort of hopper inside your robot and carry them up the arm to place them.

Think of a string of detachable aerial ski lifts.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

I personally think it has a lot to do with tic-tac-toe in that you need to make a row while undermining your opponent's row. Of course it's 3vs3 which doesnt exactly fit the description... lets call this ultimate tic-tac-toe lol

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If your alliance "owns" either diagonal, then it is impossible for the opposing alliance to "own" any tic-tac-toe bonus at all.

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this really reminds me of a 3d tic-tac-toe game a friend of mine made. you had multiple levels to put Xs and 0s on. sounds normal so far, right? but if you place a piece next to one of the opponents, the opponent's piece disappears. There was an old game called Hexagon which he got the idea from.

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

Yep - early on I missed that rule... if you have the majority or have the highest tetra UNDER a goal, then you own it (if there are none stacked on top).
However, from Q/A, if you and opponent have the same number of tetras, and they're at the same height inside the goal, then nobody owns the goal.

There's so much to watch for in this game.

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Yeah, I've been calling it Hollywood Tetras. You know, "I'll take George to block". It's going to be a team strategy game.

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All of these choices are important. But if I could only pick 1, I'd pick defensive. If your capital isn't defended, you'll lose the war! :]

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4 ways to own a row with the center goal and 4 ways to own a row without the center goal.


If a team owns their back row (a MUST have, in my book) and just one of the three goals in the center (not necessarily THE center goal), then the opponent can only get one row, too.

This game is full of possibilities. I wonder what the Newton announcer would say for this year's game ....

-Paul


P.S. - Welcome to Atlanta Baby!!!

Re: Most Important Game Aspect of '05
 

:D