Designs that would never work...
 

Like 30,000 other students this morning, I eagerly watched the Kickoff. For me it was in a crowded auditorium filled with anxious anticipation. After a string of technical difficulties, long-winded speeches and how-to videos, the triple play game of '05 was finally revealed. The entire room went deathly silent as the camera panned for our first full view of the new playing field.


Everything just went silent. You could almost hear the crazy ideas racing through people's heads on new strategies, new robots, and new, well, everything. Most teams didn't have access to the rules at that time, so while watching the robo-people demonstration, there were a lot of ridiculous designs going through people's heads. Designs that might actually work, given that you don't look at the rules, or think about it too hard.

This thread is dedicated to those stupid robot designs which will never stand a chance on the field, but are fun to think about anyway. If you don't put it in here we'd probably never hear about it otherwise. Here's a few of the nutty ideas I came up with. Enjoy, and don't hesitate to post some the ridiculous designs which came up in your own brainstorming sessions.





This large tetra shaped robot would start the team tetra strapped to its belly and rush to the center of the field during autonomous mode, raise off the ground using telescoping stilts, and then push itself onto the center goal, capping it, and then finally lower three locking pneumatics that would be connected to the stilts for stability. The stilts would also double as arms with the front two being "gate keepers", able to block off the entire center part of the field from opponents, while letting alliances members through. The back arm would be more like a wheeled base that would roll over to the tetra loading station, take a tetra, and then bring it back to be lifted by either of the other two arms to cap one of the center goals. This robot would dominate the field the field, crushing the enemy, and bringing victory to the alliance! MUHAHAHAAHAAA!

This design has one very obvious and fatal flaw, besides being illegal because it sits on top of the goal. In order to work the stilt/arms it would have have the strength of titanium and the weight of a toothpick. Oh, well...




This robot would be a huge rectangular block that would just barely fit within the size/weight requirements (hey, that's one rule you can always count on:rolleyes: ). It would rush to the center of the course during autonomous mode, and on the way split in the front like a "V" before forming a wide wall heading for the goal. Hopefully it would be fast enough to outrun the enemy robots. Before it hits the goal, the sides would separate (tethered, of course) and then go around the center goal where they would reform by a metal rod while it expanded to full size, taking up the width of the course. It would then shift into low torque and trap the little suckers against the wall, giving the alliance free reign of the course.

I actually really liked this design and it might have actually been a remote possibility if it weren't for the new rule this year about trapping opponents. It counts off 10 points for every 10 seconds you have trapped an enemy robot. So if you trapped all 3 enemy robots, depending on how fast you did it, you'd be seriously screwed, with a little over -350 points in penalties. :D




So what robot designs/ideas were the first casualties in your brainstorming sessions? I'd love to hear about them, so feel free to post away!

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Odd...those two designs are about exactly what I would say my crazy designs are. I don't know about others, but I've been thinking about this today, and can't think of many unique designs that would be practical.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

This isn't about practical, it's about having fun and thinking outside the box... tetrahedron.... whatever....:rolleyes:

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

My first thougt was spider-bot: 6-8 arms for grabbing tetras as fast as possible and then being able to run around and cap goals without having to return for more tetras right away. This was only a dream as we do not have enough motors to control so many appendages. (I know, motors aren't the only control devices). I think this is very far-fetched, but I think that a team (possibly Beatty) may try this and succeed very well.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

We'll start working on that titanium toothpick right away...

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

And they say our tax dollars are wasted!

:D

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

One possibility would be a huge volcano robot. It would sit right midfield and then spontaneously ahve a bunch of arms that yanked out to steal all the tetras. Obviously there are numerous problems with this. It's illegal to descore this year. Also, it has to obtain it from automatic or human player by entering a zone.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

now see what you have to do on something like the spider design is just have it pick up one tetra put it in the middle and have it sit on top of the center goal then have the apendages fold out and grab tetras and place them onto the remaining 8 outside goals while its still perched up ontop of the middle goal, then you wouldnt need to worry about getting backon your side with the amount of points you will rack up

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

So what your saying is having a robot that can sprout 8 30-foot long arms? Normally, I would say It would never fit but I think if we bend the fabric of the space-time continuum it might just work.

Do they mention anything about inter-dimensional manipulators in the rules?

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Every year our team discounts something as impossible to do. Then I see some team that pulled it off.

Never underestimate the power of human ingenuity.

Wetzel

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Tentacled robot? Have it load all of its (9, I would think) arms up with tetras, move to the middle, and then just sit and wait until the match is almost over. Then, unload all 9 arms, one tetra for each goal.

You get.. what.. 80 points minimum from all that? :P

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

We somehow ended up spending half an hour trying to tell a teammate that building an unfolding, 27-foot wide wall robot would be bad strategically (no offensive capabilities) and would weigh at least half a ton if built with enough strength to stop other bots from going across it.

After our kickoff meeting was over, he was still trying to convince people that a wall was the best place to go...

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Hey would someone check this out in the rules? I didn't see anything that would actually disqualify this robot but I wouldn't want to be the team building it. Seeing as to how it make the team that built it the scourge of the computation.



This robot would pretty much have one goal. It would make its way to the enemy control station, and then unfold, and expand its full size curtain over the enemy station, blocking their entire view, and rendering the enemy alliance helpless.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

the perfect robot would be one that is effecient, fast, BUT MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL: SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

nerf bot
---------

it's something I've ALWAYS wanted to do, first off, you can probably cram the thing into a small box and mail it for a cheap price. It doesn't hurt if it backs into your shins or falls on your feet. Lightweight. You can scare people by throwing it at them. Disadvantage? It more than likely won't work.

How about a robot that eats other robots?

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

If it goes against gracious progessionalism, DON'T DO IT. You want to go out and compete like crazy, but if the opponet can't play, then it isn't much of a competition. See Section 0.2, and anything said by Dr Flowers.

If the drivers can't see, you are impeding. I would also use <G25>

Wetzel

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

I'm not sure that it is illegal to sit on top of the goal. <G20> says that "ROBOTS may not grab, grasp, grapple or attach to the GOALS or any other field structure". However, it says nothing about reacting against field structures. I'm not sure that sitting on a goal counts as grabbing, grasping, grappling, or attaching.

I searched the PDFs, and didn't find any rule about trapping (the words trap or trapping never appear). <G21> only referrs to pinning, where a robot is unable to move at all and is pressed between you and a field element (pinning an opponant robot between two alliance robots is legal). Blocking off a section of the field is legal as long as your opponant has any movement.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

you notice theres a rule that says you cannot use a grabber to rip out wire or hoses. There is another rule that says you may not put something under another robot then lift it up. So what you do is you build a wedge shaped robot that drives under other robots and lifts them up, without actually lifting. Then you have a little probes that plug into their programming port, then you reprogram their robot to drive around autonomously and put your color tetras on all the goals. Its like the borg from startrek. And as far as I can tell its actually legal.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

The rules also never explicitly say that I can't park a Boeing 747 right in the middle of the play field and use it as an obstacle for the other alliance. But after a little thought, something tells me that I probably should not do it.

Every now and then, the judicious application of a modicum of common sense can make all the difference in the world.

-dave

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

I was thinking, at first, about a bot that would knock off all the opponents tetras from the goals n then dump it outside the arena. then it would continuously go over to the opponent's loading platforms n knock over the tetras or keep the other bots from accessing the manual loading platform. Also, it would herd all the goal tetras into a corner so that only our alliance had access to them. :D

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

I want to see a bot that stacks tetras into a pyramid and then climbs it to cap goals...

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Parasite Bot

Consider a robot that would be really really small. And very fast. And it could jump. So in autonamous mode the thing would race to the other side of the course and then fly through the air and land onto an enemy robot. It would then use its apenagees to grapple onto the robot and use its strongest arm for incapacitating the enemy robot's arm, rendering it pretty much useless.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

With regard to King Kong, While it might not be illegal to sit on top, if it couldn't grapple onto the base then as soon as the arms moved the center of gravity would shift and the entire thing would just fall off.

A ROBOT may not impede the placement of TETRAS on the loading structures or the hand-off of a TETRA by a HUMAN PLAYER to a ROBOT. No HUMAN PLAYER or field attendant may be accosted by a ROBOT while placing TETRAS. Violations will result immediate disabling of the offending ROBOT, and disqualification of the alliance.


I still don't see how bedsheet bot violates this rule :) This rule applies to the loading of tetras on the SIDE STATIONS. Any others you can come up with?

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Just because an issue isn't addressed specifically doesn't mean that it's not illegal. FIRST is built around gracious professionalism, and FIRST-ers are to apply gracious professionalism in every aspect of FIRST (and preferrably in extra-FIRST matters, as well). This includes in the build season, in the arena, and yes, even in interpreting the rules.

Could you build the "bed sheet bot"? Yeah, I suppose. Would it be gracious professionalism to employ that strategy? Nope. Would it last 1 match on the field before a ref steps in and makes the call that it's illegal? Nope, definitely not.

Threads like this can be fun---but you're starting to sound a little too serious about breaking the rules. Everything has limits.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

On building a bot that would violate gracious profesionalism...

I'm not looking for loopholes in the rules in order to take advantage of them. I'm trying to highlight some problems that FIRST might have overlooked. I apologize for getting a little sidetracked or if I made it appear as if I was trying to consider building or condoning a bot that would give a very unfair advantage to a certain team.

Overall I still want to keep this thread as a fun place for those bad designs and ideas that got shot down in those brainsatorming sessions to be heard. So don't let this get in the way. Lets hear some more of those casulties of common sense!

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

For what it is worth,

Never say never...that was a rule my old team use to live by. We would always start the season by considering that without fail in FIRST for ever design you come up with you will probably see it on a robot that season. It happened to me year after year. So Never say Never ;-)

Good Luck all!!

Justin

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Ok this is definetly not gracious professionalism, but I dont see a rule that prohibits a team from trying to short out the other teams control system. Preferrably find some way to keep the dammage only temporary, so that when they show up on your team you are not totally screwed.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

That would fall under the category of intentionally damaging another team's robot which is stricly illegal...

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Heh my first idea was to have a robot that could extend about 9 feet long(telescoping) and block the opposition from crossing your like of defence.
But then I realized that unless we had wheels at the ends that could hold their place as a 120 robot "bumped" into it and spun the gargantuan.

Bleh, it would be nice........

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Idea that would never work:

Using a 60 tooth #35 steel 1/2" bore sprocket on your arm. We learned the hard way tonight that there is no such thing you can buy. :(

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Make a robot with two turrets, and put massive expanding fans on it. (bed sheet idea). Just put all the motors in the bottom of your robot with cables and lead screws to move the turrets. Driver then moves the robot between 2 goals and spreads the fans over the goals. Driver then parks and takes over a fan, and 2nd driver controls the other. With a 10' diameter, you don't need to worry about moving the robot. This results in blocking a center path, the center goal, and a side goal. Problem is tipping....

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Anyone fora flying robot? ;)

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

didn't a team have a hoverbot in '02 ? I wouldn't argue that flying is out of the question lol (so you have no traction, but it definately would make for a "like a bat out of h***" autonomous, going for the center goal and capping).

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

I someone could get enough lift for the necessary controls, battery, and a tetra I would be greatly inspired. I think it may be possible, but I do not have the knowledge, time, or resources to figure out if it is even possible.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Its not impossible, but in the requirements yeah its pretty much impossible.
I dont think it would be a bad idea though, it could be useful to have such a speedy bot.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

It would be easy to build a hover bot, powering it would be the problem. There is no way the compressor could produce a high enough volume of air to make it hover, and arent there rules against building your own compressor?

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Another way to go about actually doing it is to build a fan, though as pointed out earlier in a previous thread, something of that nature would probably be considered a saftety hazard (very sharp fan blades kinda thing). Still...talk about a crowd pleaser! lol

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

I can remember thinking in 2001, "we should push the goals up the ramp from the floor" or "we should build a ramp bot so other teams can get on the ramp." After some deliberation, my team decided that the pusher bot would be impossible to build strong enough, and the ramp bot would require too much reliance on alliance partners, and therefore be ineffective. The national champions and national finalists (Beatty and Wildstang, respectively) built robots with those features. So much for impossible and ineffective, eh?

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Since stack attack, during the kickoff video for that game there was one robot that was at the top of the ramp, had like a 20 foot long arm that took a box off the enemy's side and put it on thier own stack all the while on the platform. Ever since then I wanted a 22 foot long tesalating arm that bends in 3 places and is fully rotational.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

i think the best bot design would somehow involve a death ray...though it wouldnt be graciuos professionalism, it would work :D

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Reply With QuoteThankyou! ;)

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

I can think of all the fun things you could do with flying robots. Though the judges would never let it pass, think about what would happen if it suddenly went haywire and went flying into the audience...

But then that got me thinking about something else. I started thinking about blimps and then about other inflatables. You know those inflatable life rafts? The ones that you pull a cord and then some super pressurized air inflates the raft in seconds? It sure would be fun to just strap one of those to the top of a robot, drive it to the other side in autonomous mode and then just pull the rip cord...

The funny thing would be if one of the enemy bots wasn't stuck on their side and then charges the thing with a pointy arm pointed straight at the inflated raft :D. POW!

I'm really getting carried away aren't I? I need to get some sleep...

G'Night!

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Oh, come on, Dave... there's no way you're gonna fold that 747 into a 28x38x60 box. :p

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

he he you guys are nuts.

last year my 1st idea was to make a expanding net that cough all the balls when they dropped. i was told it to be imposable, yet surely enuf there was a team that could catch and dispense every last one of them

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

lets see...

you can have a giant conveyer-belt bot that can load up every last tetra from human and auto stations, then pulls arms out of the ether to drop them on goals :D

----

a bot that climbs the player station, shoots a zipline to the other side of the field, then traverses that line back and forth to drop tetras?

----

arr, weight limits

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

:)

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

same here. and also there were more than one too.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Hey why not building an assassin robot!!! :rolleyes:
one team would pay another team lots of mula to build a robot with something that could just reach into another robot and rip out all of the wires!!! yes you would be disqualified but hey, your RICH!!! :yikes: ... lol... of course that goes against the whole gracious professionalism rule... dang :p

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

hey we did that exact thing for 1403, and we capped the 2x ball too, not to mention we were good at it. Looking back at it i'm suprised not many teams did because if they put together a scoring matrix, they'd see it was the obvious choice


also another rejected design from this year on our team, you have this inflatable ballon, powered through pneumatics that went into the tetra, and inflated to lift it up.

another one rejected by the team, even though it wasn't as bad as the balloon. You have some muscle wire (it becomes stiff when you put an electrical current through it) and use that to grasp a tetra. It was feasable yet ineffecient because of the current draw it would require.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

We spent one whole meeting designing a robot with a "bowl" that would sit just over the centre tetra, keeping others from capping it. It would be attached to our robot by a string, and we would be able to drive around the goal and ward off other robots. Then we realised that it wouldn't do anything for us if the centre goal wasn't capped first, and it would be boring.

We were going to steal the bowl from the cafeteria.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Go catch a giant squid use electrical impulses to activate the mushels and then poof you got a multi arm robot cabable of toshing anything in the field out about 20+ft. It could work two if you could catch a squid.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Also try making a robot that pops up into thre rafters drops a super stiff ultra alien cable and play the claw game.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

I always thought that a bot that was based on a SeeSaw that picked up tetras from the Autoloader then fliped over dumping it on the goal would be pretty cool but not really good at grabbing tetras

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Ok here it is, you have a robot with an EMP on. In your autonomous you cap 1 or 2 then BOOM . You have enough points game over.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

My bad you just fry all their circuits

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

I also think the Robot needs spinners. You would have the Escalade of Robots.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Actually that happened at one of the first BattleBots games from what I heard... the rules didn't state that they needed to have a robot, so a guy strapped an emp generator to the back of his truck and set it off.

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Alright, as soon as the kickoff ended, I was thinking "Lets build a robot that goes around the rack and pops all the ringers! We could call it Needlebot!" Of course, gracious professionalism would outlaw this strategy, and the popped ringers still count anyway. Oh well! :D

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Simply have a lot of suction cups attached to the back of the robot and connect to the wall of the driver station say 14 inches above the ground, then have plates that fold out and alliance partners drive on top, then like a forklift, all 3 robots are lifted 14 inches off the ground :D too bad there are two really big problems with that :(

Re: Designs that would never work...
 

Aww man, you got to the good one first, Cuog. Anyway, another idea:

A robot that has some sort of arm or whatever, and at the end of the match, the arm folds up inside, and the robot launches itself 10 feet in the air, grabbing onto the top of the wall in between the drivers and the field, successfully scoring 30 points and making ~10 people poop their pants :D