Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I think that could be very important. Teams will need to steer far clear of occupied loading zones.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

on team update number 3, it <G28> now says, "An alliance that dislodges, knocks or, in any way, removes an opposing alliance’s tetra off a loading platform will be assessed a 10-point penalty for each occurrence."

it would seem to me that each answer is mutually exclusive...am i missing something here?

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Nope, not missing anything. I just looked at the Q/A... They changed the answer again.

ID: 976 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/18/2005
Q: Regarding <G13>: May a red robot retrieve a blue tetra from the "automated" blue loading dock if it does not interfere with a blue robot in any way?

A: THIS ANSWER HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM "YES' BACK TO "NO" ON 1/18/2005. See new rule G28 in Team Update #03. THIS ANSWER HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM "NO" TO "YES" ON 1/16/2005. Yes. No.

Based on this, they say "loading platform" which implies to me that it goes for both the automatic and HP loading zones. So I guess you cannot take your alliances tetras from their loading zones at all, even if you want to help their score.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

So, regarding the thread in General Forum about the "indecision of FIRST".... The latest rule is that you cannot steal an opponents tetra from their loading station.
Many people stated that stealing tetras would be against GP.

So now I ask you.... is it GP for you to go sit in an opponents loading zone all day long?
The Q/A system says there is no time limit for you to sit in YOURS or your OPPONENTS loading zone.

So, how is it anymore GP to be allowed to squat in their loading zone, than it is for you to take a tetra, which could ultimately help your opponent in the long run? (if you drop them inside the field, otherwise they just go back into play later)

Seems like it's a "same difference" type of situation. I may not be able to steal their tetras, but I can sure sit in their zone blocking them from getting one, which is essentially the same thing.

Any other reasonable takes on that? Please try to post value-added comments, and not to go too off topic, as this is still a Q/A topic thread. I just didn't feel it necessary to create another thread for this particular question.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

<G12> states that the loading zone is not intended to serve as a "perpetual safety zone", and so sitting in the loading zone for a whole match will probably fall under this rule. a robot cannot be touched while in the loading zone, and if the referees decide that an alliance is taking advantage of this and thus permanently blocking their opponents from grabbing tetras, they might be asked to move.

either way, it's definitely not GP to keep your opponents from obtaining their tetras. let your opponent get their chance to score, and instead work on scoring for your own team. :)

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I think that G12 is intended for your OWN loading zone though. You cannot have an arm that extends 40ft to continue touching your loading zone, while you run around the field scoring points, while the opponent is prohibited from touching you. That's how I interpret that rule. But I would think that if I'm in an opponent's loadzone, that they should be able to push me out of there. Since I can't take any tetras from opponents loadzone anyways, I don't think I could use an opponents loadzone as a "safety zone" and G15 (interference rules) shouldn't apply "against" the opponent trying to get into his own loadzone... i.e. the opponent shouldn't be penalized for interfering with me, since I can't do anything interferable, if they're just trying to get in their zone to get a tetra.

My opinion is that the opponent should not be allowed in my loadzone at all. If they want to block me, they should block me from outside the zone, and before I get to the zone. As soon as I touch my loadzone, the opponent can't touch me. I wonder how this will be handled.

I agree with your statement about neither being GP. But the Q/A currently states that there is no time limit for squatting in ANY of the loading zones.
Hopefully it will be cleared up a little better from Q/A.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Remember that <G15> has the important caveat that you must be in the process of loading a tetra. You are protected from the time you enter the zone until the referee decides that you have no intention of loading a tetra. If you are literally squatting there, you have no protection.

I don't think that anything needs to be done to keep you out of the opponents loading zone because of <G16>. If one an opposing robot decides to sit in my loading zone, I still have 3 more loading zones free. If 2 decide to squat, I now have 3 robots and 2 loading zones to outscore a single robot.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Yeah I thought about that caveat too. But then we get into that "how do you judge intent" debate again. It'll be obvious after you've already received a tetra, and you're just sitting in the LZ, but not so much if you're squatting/waiting without a tetra. So then it sounds like the opponent could attack me if I'm just sitting in my LZ with a tetra (since I can't load another one until I leave)....

G16 wouldn't prevent my opponent from driving back and forth between my LZs to block me from getting into one of them. So that could be possible. But I still have two other LZs on the other side to go for. But I agree. I would assume most alliances would send at least one robot to play defense, and they can't cover all the LZs at once. So that's one less robot scoring points for the opponent alliance, and 3 against 1 on my side.
I'm not sure how much of an issue it will be, but some of the rules are a little blurry on what actually is/isn't allowed regarding the loading zones.

Looking at:
: 1156 Section: 4.2.1 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/17/2005
Q: If a robot knocks us into another robot in a loading zone, do we get penalized?
A: Yes

This doesn't explain far enough to interpret whether the "another robot" is loading a tetra, or just plain 'ole "in" the loading zone... This particular Q/A sounds like you can't touch a robot at all if it's in the loading zone. But shouldnt apply if the opponent robot is in your LZ.
I have asked a couple questions in Q/A, and will see what the answer is.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I highly suggest reading Update04 very carefully.

There are a lot of questions in Q/A regarding the different potential situations for G15.

I originally posted here, but created a new thread that more or less reiterates the examples posted in Update 04.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=33197

Please try to keep that thread to topic if you have comments. Continue to post here if you have other Q/A type thoughts.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I'm interested in the answer to this one:

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Yeah me too.

I'm trying to think how common it would be to accidentally "descore" a stacked tetra if it's on there even remotely well, esp when you're going to stack your own on top. They're pretty well situated on there once they're on. I would hope that if it's like a couple second thing, and you get it back in rescored position while putting your own on, that that would be ok.
I am hoping they would look at the outcome more than the "accidental" action that was remedied immediately. Otherwise, they would have to make sure to keep track of that little incident in scoring, and if it is such a quick thing, do the refs have enough time to see what's going on and determine if it was "really" in a descored position or not?

There's a few questions on there still that I'm interested in the answers.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

This one from Q/A seems like it needs an updated answer, because it depends on the situation. Update04 explains that with examples.

ID: 1156 Section: 4.2.1 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/17/2005
Q: If a robot knocks us into another robot in a loading zone, do we get penalized?
A: Yes

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

ID: 1253 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/24/2005
Q: Is moving a tetra on a goal from a scored position to an unscored position still on the goal considered removing it? If you inadvertently do this while trying to score your own tetra, can you remedy it by repositioning the moved tetra?
A: If you displace a tetra from a stacked position to a "precarious" position, you have de-scored the tetra and will be penalized "if" you leave the tetra in this position. If you return the tetra to a stacked position in the process of stacking your own tetra, you will not be penalized. If the tetra falls completely off the goal, you will be penalized.

Also another one:

ID: 1264 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/24/2005
Q: I understand the G16 rule..BUT, can two robots (same alliance) be "in" one loadzone at a time? For either Auto or HP zone? Both robots would not necessarily obtain tetras at the same time (they can't on the HP side)..
A: Yes, in the automatic loading zone. No, in the Human Player loading zone... safety issue.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

ID:1284 Section:5.4.1 Status:Answered Date Answered:1/24/2005
Q:You instructions for changes and the kit inventory listed two globe motors. I know you only shipped one, but we need clarification. Can we use two globes as in past years ? Please change posted information if required.
A:You can use two Globe motors. You were only shipped one.

This seems to directly contradict the ruling on the Van Door motor, not to mention the flowchart.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

All - From Q/A answers:

: 1237 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/25/2005
Q: Ref to 979 and 1098, it is not clear for "the opposing alliance". If I'm Redteam, and I am "touching" a red tetra low on stack, will blue tetras above count, or not? Q979 says same alliance tetras won't count, but how about opponents?
A: The opposing alliance's tetras will count, your own alliance's tetras will not

ID: 1338 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/25/2005
Q: Ex7 - G15. If opp is blocking my LZ, & I want to get a tetra, I may end up pushing "thru" the opp and both end up in LZ. Once in my LZ, I am trying to get a tetra. When would Red be interfering? When push contact breaks & opp doesn't leave?
A: Once an opponent gets pushed into your loading zone, they should consider leaving immediately so as not to get penalized.

Both above, as I would have hoped/expected...

ID: 1309 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/25/2005
Q: Answers to 1045 and 1097 implicitly contradict each other. Which is correct?
A: They are independent and both are correct.

fyi Ref:
ID: 1045 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/11/2005
Q: How long may a robot occupy a loading zone? Is there a time limit?
A: No limit as long as it is your own area.

ID: 1097 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/16/2005
Q: Question ID#1045 states that there is no time limit for occupying your own loading zone. What is the time limit for occupying an opponents loading zone?
A: There is none

I am not quite sure how they "don't" contradict each other. To me, it seems like they do... But, bottom line, it sounds like you don't have any time limit to sit in any loading zone, so long as you don't violate the G15 rules, or any other rules.