Q/A questions so far..
 

I would like to note, as others have, PLEASE read all the Q/A questions before posting a question. Also, if you're reading this and you post Q/A, please read the manual and rules/strategies threads. Most questions regarding game play are already answered.

You'd probably rather wait for the official FIRST answer, but many questions are already answered on CD. So, trying to benefit you with quicker answers... There were also some good questions in there I hadn't though of either..

ID975 -- If a robot scores a vision tetra on a goal, the "bonus" tetras will be placed on the corner goals AFTER automode is over, earliest safe opportunity.. (from G10)

ID970 -- Human player can place a tetra anywhere on your robot, so long as he doesn't touch the robot. G13 clearly defines that (on, or in robot, or any mech to grab it)

ID974 -- Ownership of a goal based on tetras inside... only applied when no tetras are stacked on top... then it's based on highest tetra inside, or, if all at same height, whoever has the majority.. (see "owning a goal" definition of manual rules).

ID980-- The tetras will be divided "equally" between the HP and auto zones. They will also "try" to keep each side roughly equal in quantity, so that one side does not totally deplete and remain depleted.

ID966 -- You cannot remove tetras from the top of a goal if it's fully considered stacked. Period. There is a definition of what "precariously" positioned is, in which case you can take it off. I don't expect that too happen too often.

ID999 -- Haven't seen anything against rolling over the goal's base tubes (on floor) for various reasons... Seems perfectly legal. Except - you cannot extend into that 3d space at the beginning of match (G02).

ID1003 -- Designated vision tetra placement at start of match. There is a field layout drawing with dimensions and includes those particular 8 spots. In the manual under "Arena" then "Drawings" category - Field Layout.

ID1011 -- Both alliances can obtain the bonus for a vision tetra that is scored during the autonomous period <G10>. In automode, if redbot puts a vision tetra on center goal, red alliance gets 2 bonus red tetras. If bluebot puts a VT on the center goal, blue alliance gets 2 bonus blue tetras.

ID1010 -- A robot can score multiple tetras at the same moment. You can build a stack of tetras, and then cap the goal with that stack. No rule against it that I see. You cannot receive multiple tetras from a loading zone at one time.

ID 1025 -- Regarding <G13>: May a robot retrieve a tetra from the automated loading station without being in the automated loading zone? Question already asked in Q/A, asking to define parameters of loading zone. Also discussed on CD, interpreting rules implies you need to be touching some part of the floor triangle to be "in" the LZ.

ID1005 -- Can the robot back off once receiving a Tetra and immediately move forward and load another Tetra? Can a robot carry say 10 Tetras? Discussed thoroughly in these threads. Yes.


Good Q/A questions I'm not sure of yet (pulled from Q/A site)..
ID973 -- During autonomous period, will the referees be refilling the "automatic" loading platform, since the human players cannot reload the manual loading platform?
-- I think the answer would be yes, they'll refill them during automode, since G11 says "robots can get tetras from autozone any time during match. Robots can get tetras from the HP zone any time after automode". That would imply they'll try to keep the autozone refilled, so long as it's safe for them do so.

ID970 -- Regarding the definition of "stacked": If a tetra, which is not at the top of a stack, is being touched (not supported) by an alliance robot, are all higher tetras (not touching the robot) from that same alliance discounted as well?
-- I think it would be that any tetra your alliance is touching would be discounted, but only that tetra. In the definition of "stacked" in manual, a tetra is not considered stacked if it is touching a robot of the same alliance. Implies just that one tetra.
-- But, another Q, if you're touching the lowest one on the pile, you're most likely obviously not supporting it (since it would have i.e. 4 on top of it), so seems a little unfair to discount that tetra.... But that definition does say it would... But it doesn't say all higher tetras would be discounted..

ID977 -- Regarding <G14>: If the mechanism requires it, may a robot "stack" a currently held tetra on top of a loading-dock supported tetra in order to lift both off at once in a stack, provided the robot does not interfere with the attendant.
-- Beats me...


Any other thoughts on some of the questionable ones? (or any corrections to my thoughts)....

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

even if you have to be touching the floor triangle to be -in- the loading zone, do you have to be -in- the loading zone to take a tetra?

also, if a robot is over the yellow triangle, but because of its chassis design does not -touch- the yellow triangle, does that count as in the loading zone?

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Has FIRST taken today off? If so I don't blame them, they deserve it, but there are a lot of Q/A questions to be answered. Any word on when the answers will come (like what to do about a missing Van Door if you didn't get one at all because it is not listed to order in the TIMS)? Also, in posting in the Q/A, please don't do so until the whole manual has been read. I saw lots of stuff in there I could have answered.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Sign up for the FIRST e-mail Blasts, or read them here.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=32448

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

The way I've seen it interpreted is that some part of your robot has to be touching the floor triangle to be considered "in" the loading zone....

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

if a bot picked up a tetra from auto loading zone. then goes to the adjacent loading zone and puts that tetra it picked up earlier on the tetra which is still on loader, then pick both up, is that illegal?
(concenring out of field rules)

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Refer to ID977.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

really really sorry, but i'm a newb this year and i looked through the pdf files on the 2005 games with a search on ID977, but i couldnt find anything in those files...

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

That doesn't refer to a section in the manual, but rather a question in the FIRST Q/A system. http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/2005/qa.htm

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

ah i see, now i feel so stupid haha ^.^;; thanks, mmm when can i expect to see it answered? couple weeks, o rjust whenever htye have time to get to it, not trying to sound rude or anything

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

They haven't answered any yet---look for some answers in the next few days.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

The really easy ones have been answered now.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

[/b]

This doesn't answer the question asked. Before or after the hangers are dropped? In short, if the bonus goals are capped before the hangers are removed, the hangers will drop and will be scored. Will the score be invalidated? It is a 2 pt (or potentially more) swing.

If there is no majority and no height differential...than what?

Doesn't answer the question.
Interesting. I was wondering if we would start with a fixed number, or whether or not equalization would go on during the match.
That is my thought as well, but I wanted to clear it up.
Again, I wanted to clarify.
Exactly--but it would be a cool mechanism.
My only corrections are to correct you about what was an wasn't answered. I responded to each of the questions I asked that you cited.

I served as the "official asker" for my team last year too. So far, this year, I've asked 12 questions, all of which have been assiduously researched to make certain that they were not already answered. There look to be quite a few loopholes and/or discrepancies in this years rules.

--Petey

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Quite.

But there were also a lot of valid questions--and loopholes, and typos--in there as well. It would be nice to know the answer to them--several would be key factors of a robot's design.

--Petey

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

ID 975 - If the Vision Tetra is scored during autonomous mode, will the awarded "capping" tetras be placed over the corner goals *before* or *after* the hanging tetras are removed (and, if before, would the now-dropped hangers stay scored?)

The question above is answered in G10, from what I see. They are not going to provide the bonus tetras until automode is over. Therefore, if you don't drop the hanging tetra during automode yourself, they will remove the still hanging tetra, and THEN cap the goal with your bonus tetra. So you cannot count on the field attendant to make the hanging one drop due to capping the goal, because they won't do it until after automode is over, which is when they remove any remaining hanging tetras.

Good question - I think I misread the ID974 - so thank you for pointing that out. If blue and red both have one tetra on the floor inside a goal, and none stacked on top.... who would own it??... good question..

Both - each team starts out with equal tetras, equal places.. one difference I might see at the beginning, would be if one team chooses to have a tetra on a robot, and the other does not. The quantity is the same, one loading zone would have one less tetra than the others.
According to Dave Lavery, they will try to keep equalization between a teams set of loading zones....

The other questions I just posted what *I* thought, basing it on some of the rules, but will need to see what the final ruling is.

I am not attempting to answer for FIRST. There are some very good questions in Q/A that I thought might be well suited to post here for discussion and bring to attention to others that may not have thought of it. But there are a number that have been beaten to death and clearly answered, but are still being asked. So I was trying to reduce the repetitive questions, and maybe answer (from manual) more quickly for some people.

There are indeed some very small details left out of some rules, and hopefully we can get them clarified soon, so as not to affect anyone's design or strategies significantly.
Thanks for your comments!! :)

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

[/b]

See, but they don't specify which happens first. Since it is a two point swing, and every point will matter in this game, I wanted it to be certain.
Oh, I know. And I think this is a good thread to have.

What we really need is a way that people can preview questions, to make sure they haven't skipped over something real obvious in the manuals.

Thanks for your thread.

--Petey

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Maybe I'm not sure what the real question is on the first one..
If you score a vision tetra in automode..... that's great. But they are not going to place your bonus tetra(s) until automode is over. When automode is over, the field attendant takes away the hanging tetra, and puts it in queue for loading station. Therefore, the field attendant will not inadvertantly drop the hanging tetra for you by placing the bonus one on top.... So you either knock the tetra down somehow with your robot during automode, or you "lose" the hanging tetra (and it's recylced back into the game)...
Hopefully that answers the question, but I don't know what else there is regarding that part.

Yeah, if there was a database of questions that have been asked already... :) But some just need to use "Search" better.. :) I think for *most* game related questions, people could assume they've already been asked, and should look thoroughly for it.

Thanks for your input! I'm waiting to see some of FIRST's respones on Q/A!

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I gotta a question for this q and a thread. Can the robot when returning back to the finishing area (behind the line) be under the tetra to save space. I have not found any rule against this but I just wanted to make sure. Thanks for you input and answers. Good thread too so the same questions aren't asked. This one has probablly been asked lol. :ahh:

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

if none of the teams in an alliance want to begin with the initial alliance tetra, will it be placed in one of the loading zones? :confused:

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Actually this one hasn't been asked as many as some others..
At the END of the match, you can indeed be under the goal, or extending into it, or whatever (just don't touch any tetras on top of it!).
But at the START of the match, you cannot be extending any part inside the 3d space of the goal.
There was also a Q/A question that was answered about being able to drive through a goal, so long as you don't damage it... and yes, you can.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Yes, both teams start out with 40 tetras of their color, including hanging and vision tetras.
The rule says "at the discretion of the alliance" they may choose to start with a tetra on their robot, such that their robot doesn't not violate the starting dimension size.
So, if you choose not to have that starting tetra, it will just be in one of you loading zones instead.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

For anyone's reference, tried to pull a few good ones from Q/A... There had been some discussion about these on CD.

ID976:
Q: Regarding <G13>: May a red robot retrieve a blue tetra from the "automated" blue loading dock if it does not interfere with a blue robot in any way?

A: No.

also.. very interesting... (i thought the loading zone was signified by a blue/red 1/4" thick lexan sheet - not yellow, but I think it is a color)

ID: 978 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/11/2005
Q: Regarding <G17>: What are the parameters for being "in" a loading zone? (i.e., must some part of the robot be touching the yellow triangle, et cetera)

A: There are no yellow triangles in the loading zones. The robot base and / or drive train must be touching the loading zone. The intent of this rule is that you must be in the loading zone. By making it blatantly obvious that you are in the loading zone, you will draw far less attention from the referees.

ID: 1025 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/11/2005
Q: Regarding <G13>: May a robot retrieve a tetra from the automated loading station without being in the automated loading zone?

A: No.

ID: 1058 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/11/2005
Q: Is a robot "in" the automated loading zone when it breaks the plane of the loading zone or must it physically touch the carpet in the loading zone?

A: See the answer for #978

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

when the human player is on the pressure pad, can they be holding a tetra? or will they have to wait until the robot is in the loading zone, step of the pressure pad, and get a tetra from the stack behind the pad?

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I found this interesting:

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Can't be holding one during automode... G07.

But, I'm not actually positive about during the match. I'm not sure where the stack is in relation to the HP.. I know it's near, but not sure how reachable it is from the pressure pad. This might be a potential clue from Q/A though...
ID 1090
Q: How much pressure must be applied to each pad to keep it active? Must this force be constant? For instance, will a human player be able to pivot around to grab a tetra or return to the loading dock, or will that disable the robot?
A: There is no spec on the mat's activation force. We have activated the mats with a 25 pound weight that was about 5" square. That weight might be marginal. Certainly an 80+ pound student would be acceptable. It is important that the student tries to maintain "sufficient" pressure even while turning to grab a tetra from a stack.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Yeah me too. Since the rules clearly state that you cannot remove a tetra from on top a goal, it would seem that you can't remove any tetra from on top a goal... period. (unless it's precariously positioned).
I wonder if this is really true, or if they interpreted the question as being "removing a tetra from inside a goal"... I don't know... Probably not too many instances where I'd remove my own tetras though...

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I'm not sure if this satisfies me, but I guess it's the best I can hope for.

They've answered most of the questions I've asked. Some really surprised me--for instance, I had been sure there was a red/blue lexan sheet as well (the yellow was a typo).

It also surprised me that they would discount all of the tetras above a tetra that the robot was touching, a la "Stack Attack".

Hmmmph.

--Petey

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

does this mean that the robot with the tetra on it must be within the volume 28"x38"x60", or that the robot must be within the volume 28"x38"x60" even though it is holding the tetra, therefore keeping teams from having a tetra grabbing mechanism that extends beyond the volume constraints at the beginning of the match?

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

It means that the robot and all it's robot parts must be within the specified volume as usual. The tetra can be outside the volume if necessary.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Couple other good ones:

Q: Can the human player manipulate tetras already acquired by the robot while the robot and the human player are in their appropriate loading zones and there is no contact between the robot and the human player?
A: A previously loaded tetra is considered part of the robot and may not be touched by the human player. Players may use the new tetra they are loading to manipulate tetras already acquired.

Q: If a robot knocks us into another robot in a loading zone, do we get penalized?
A:Yes

Q: Regarding <G13>: May a red robot retrieve a blue tetra from the "automated" blue loading dock if it does not interfere with a blue robot in any way?
A: THIS ANSWER HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM "NO" TO "YES" ON 1/16/2005. Yes.

Q: Will the robot be able to be powerd on before the match to actively grab the alliance tetra (the one that is in the alliance possession in the beginning) before the match?
A: No.

Q: is a 10-point penalty given if our robot touches the tetra on the automatic loader, but does not remove it, before our robot has reached the loading zone?
A: Yes, the intent is the robot must be in the loading zone prior to contacting the tetra

Q: If one team of an alliance exhausts all of their supply tetras, may another team give them tetras from their stack? For example, if team A runs out of tetras in their supply stack, can team B give tetras to team A?
A: All of the tetras for an alliance are available to any team in that alliance.

Q: If a tetra, which is not at the top of a stack, is being touched (not supported) by a robot, do the higher tetras (not touching the robot) not count as well? For the touching alliance? For the opposing alliance?
A: See answer to #979.

ID979:
Q: Regarding the definition of "stacked": If a tetra, which is not at the top of a stack, is being touched (not supported) by an alliance robot, are all higher tetras (not touching the robot) from that same alliance discounted as well?
A: They would not count.

However, 979 does not answer the question of "for the opposing alliance"... I know there were questions on CD about this, but haven't seen it further asked in Q/A yet.
Q1237 - if I'm on Red team, and I'm touching a Red tetra on the bottom of a stack, do all the Blue tetras on top count, or not? If I were on the blue team, I would NOT be happy about that... we shall see...

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I think that could be very important. Teams will need to steer far clear of occupied loading zones.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

on team update number 3, it <G28> now says, "An alliance that dislodges, knocks or, in any way, removes an opposing alliance’s tetra off a loading platform will be assessed a 10-point penalty for each occurrence."

it would seem to me that each answer is mutually exclusive...am i missing something here?

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Nope, not missing anything. I just looked at the Q/A... They changed the answer again.

ID: 976 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/18/2005
Q: Regarding <G13>: May a red robot retrieve a blue tetra from the "automated" blue loading dock if it does not interfere with a blue robot in any way?

A: THIS ANSWER HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM "YES' BACK TO "NO" ON 1/18/2005. See new rule G28 in Team Update #03. THIS ANSWER HAS BEEN CHANGED FROM "NO" TO "YES" ON 1/16/2005. Yes. No.

Based on this, they say "loading platform" which implies to me that it goes for both the automatic and HP loading zones. So I guess you cannot take your alliances tetras from their loading zones at all, even if you want to help their score.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

So, regarding the thread in General Forum about the "indecision of FIRST".... The latest rule is that you cannot steal an opponents tetra from their loading station.
Many people stated that stealing tetras would be against GP.

So now I ask you.... is it GP for you to go sit in an opponents loading zone all day long?
The Q/A system says there is no time limit for you to sit in YOURS or your OPPONENTS loading zone.

So, how is it anymore GP to be allowed to squat in their loading zone, than it is for you to take a tetra, which could ultimately help your opponent in the long run? (if you drop them inside the field, otherwise they just go back into play later)

Seems like it's a "same difference" type of situation. I may not be able to steal their tetras, but I can sure sit in their zone blocking them from getting one, which is essentially the same thing.

Any other reasonable takes on that? Please try to post value-added comments, and not to go too off topic, as this is still a Q/A topic thread. I just didn't feel it necessary to create another thread for this particular question.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

<G12> states that the loading zone is not intended to serve as a "perpetual safety zone", and so sitting in the loading zone for a whole match will probably fall under this rule. a robot cannot be touched while in the loading zone, and if the referees decide that an alliance is taking advantage of this and thus permanently blocking their opponents from grabbing tetras, they might be asked to move.

either way, it's definitely not GP to keep your opponents from obtaining their tetras. let your opponent get their chance to score, and instead work on scoring for your own team. :)

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I think that G12 is intended for your OWN loading zone though. You cannot have an arm that extends 40ft to continue touching your loading zone, while you run around the field scoring points, while the opponent is prohibited from touching you. That's how I interpret that rule. But I would think that if I'm in an opponent's loadzone, that they should be able to push me out of there. Since I can't take any tetras from opponents loadzone anyways, I don't think I could use an opponents loadzone as a "safety zone" and G15 (interference rules) shouldn't apply "against" the opponent trying to get into his own loadzone... i.e. the opponent shouldn't be penalized for interfering with me, since I can't do anything interferable, if they're just trying to get in their zone to get a tetra.

My opinion is that the opponent should not be allowed in my loadzone at all. If they want to block me, they should block me from outside the zone, and before I get to the zone. As soon as I touch my loadzone, the opponent can't touch me. I wonder how this will be handled.

I agree with your statement about neither being GP. But the Q/A currently states that there is no time limit for squatting in ANY of the loading zones.
Hopefully it will be cleared up a little better from Q/A.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Remember that <G15> has the important caveat that you must be in the process of loading a tetra. You are protected from the time you enter the zone until the referee decides that you have no intention of loading a tetra. If you are literally squatting there, you have no protection.

I don't think that anything needs to be done to keep you out of the opponents loading zone because of <G16>. If one an opposing robot decides to sit in my loading zone, I still have 3 more loading zones free. If 2 decide to squat, I now have 3 robots and 2 loading zones to outscore a single robot.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Yeah I thought about that caveat too. But then we get into that "how do you judge intent" debate again. It'll be obvious after you've already received a tetra, and you're just sitting in the LZ, but not so much if you're squatting/waiting without a tetra. So then it sounds like the opponent could attack me if I'm just sitting in my LZ with a tetra (since I can't load another one until I leave)....

G16 wouldn't prevent my opponent from driving back and forth between my LZs to block me from getting into one of them. So that could be possible. But I still have two other LZs on the other side to go for. But I agree. I would assume most alliances would send at least one robot to play defense, and they can't cover all the LZs at once. So that's one less robot scoring points for the opponent alliance, and 3 against 1 on my side.
I'm not sure how much of an issue it will be, but some of the rules are a little blurry on what actually is/isn't allowed regarding the loading zones.

Looking at:
: 1156 Section: 4.2.1 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/17/2005
Q: If a robot knocks us into another robot in a loading zone, do we get penalized?
A: Yes

This doesn't explain far enough to interpret whether the "another robot" is loading a tetra, or just plain 'ole "in" the loading zone... This particular Q/A sounds like you can't touch a robot at all if it's in the loading zone. But shouldnt apply if the opponent robot is in your LZ.
I have asked a couple questions in Q/A, and will see what the answer is.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I highly suggest reading Update04 very carefully.

There are a lot of questions in Q/A regarding the different potential situations for G15.

I originally posted here, but created a new thread that more or less reiterates the examples posted in Update 04.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=33197

Please try to keep that thread to topic if you have comments. Continue to post here if you have other Q/A type thoughts.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I'm interested in the answer to this one:

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Yeah me too.

I'm trying to think how common it would be to accidentally "descore" a stacked tetra if it's on there even remotely well, esp when you're going to stack your own on top. They're pretty well situated on there once they're on. I would hope that if it's like a couple second thing, and you get it back in rescored position while putting your own on, that that would be ok.
I am hoping they would look at the outcome more than the "accidental" action that was remedied immediately. Otherwise, they would have to make sure to keep track of that little incident in scoring, and if it is such a quick thing, do the refs have enough time to see what's going on and determine if it was "really" in a descored position or not?

There's a few questions on there still that I'm interested in the answers.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

This one from Q/A seems like it needs an updated answer, because it depends on the situation. Update04 explains that with examples.

ID: 1156 Section: 4.2.1 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/17/2005
Q: If a robot knocks us into another robot in a loading zone, do we get penalized?
A: Yes

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

ID: 1253 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/24/2005
Q: Is moving a tetra on a goal from a scored position to an unscored position still on the goal considered removing it? If you inadvertently do this while trying to score your own tetra, can you remedy it by repositioning the moved tetra?
A: If you displace a tetra from a stacked position to a "precarious" position, you have de-scored the tetra and will be penalized "if" you leave the tetra in this position. If you return the tetra to a stacked position in the process of stacking your own tetra, you will not be penalized. If the tetra falls completely off the goal, you will be penalized.

Also another one:

ID: 1264 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/24/2005
Q: I understand the G16 rule..BUT, can two robots (same alliance) be "in" one loadzone at a time? For either Auto or HP zone? Both robots would not necessarily obtain tetras at the same time (they can't on the HP side)..
A: Yes, in the automatic loading zone. No, in the Human Player loading zone... safety issue.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

ID:1284 Section:5.4.1 Status:Answered Date Answered:1/24/2005
Q:You instructions for changes and the kit inventory listed two globe motors. I know you only shipped one, but we need clarification. Can we use two globes as in past years ? Please change posted information if required.
A:You can use two Globe motors. You were only shipped one.

This seems to directly contradict the ruling on the Van Door motor, not to mention the flowchart.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

All - From Q/A answers:

: 1237 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/25/2005
Q: Ref to 979 and 1098, it is not clear for "the opposing alliance". If I'm Redteam, and I am "touching" a red tetra low on stack, will blue tetras above count, or not? Q979 says same alliance tetras won't count, but how about opponents?
A: The opposing alliance's tetras will count, your own alliance's tetras will not

ID: 1338 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/25/2005
Q: Ex7 - G15. If opp is blocking my LZ, & I want to get a tetra, I may end up pushing "thru" the opp and both end up in LZ. Once in my LZ, I am trying to get a tetra. When would Red be interfering? When push contact breaks & opp doesn't leave?
A: Once an opponent gets pushed into your loading zone, they should consider leaving immediately so as not to get penalized.

Both above, as I would have hoped/expected...

ID: 1309 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/25/2005
Q: Answers to 1045 and 1097 implicitly contradict each other. Which is correct?
A: They are independent and both are correct.

fyi Ref:
ID: 1045 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/11/2005
Q: How long may a robot occupy a loading zone? Is there a time limit?
A: No limit as long as it is your own area.

ID: 1097 Section: 4.3.3 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/16/2005
Q: Question ID#1045 states that there is no time limit for occupying your own loading zone. What is the time limit for occupying an opponents loading zone?
A: There is none

I am not quite sure how they "don't" contradict each other. To me, it seems like they do... But, bottom line, it sounds like you don't have any time limit to sit in any loading zone, so long as you don't violate the G15 rules, or any other rules.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

Everyone is reading in the wording too much and not seeing the intention.

It seems ID 1045 implies that there is a time limit for occupying an opponents loading zone. ID 1097 states that there isn't a time limit. Question answered.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

I'm assuming that they mean there are no specific time limits at all...but once you are in your opponent's loading zone, there is a limit. It isn't a time limit, but you have to leave the loading zone if your opponent attempts to grab a tetra, and so you are limited to when you can be in the loading zone.

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

As I read it, #1045 says that there is no time limit for occupying your own loading zone. It does not say anything one way or the other about your opponent's loading zone. #1097 says that there is no time limit for occupying your opponent's loading zone, and does not say anything about your loading zone. Those are two independent statements, and they do not appear to be mutually exclusive. #1405 is true, and #1097 is true, so #1309 makes logical sense.

-dave

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

The questions were answered well in Q/A. I think the "as long as you're in your own area", was initially read by some as implying you might have a time limit if in opponent's area.
But the second question clearly answers that. Just an interpretation of the first answer prior to the second question having been asked/answered.

I think FIRST has done a good job in addressing all the questions that have come up, and there weren't really that many to begin with that weren't answered in the manual. That's pretty good...

Re: Q/A questions so far..
 

The updates so far seem to be saying that you do, in fact, have to be touching the blue/red triangle to be "in" the loading zone, but it seems unlikely that that is what the rules makers really intended. What the interpretations are saying is that, assuming you have a drive with wheels near the corners, if you drive up centered on the loading zone, you have to drive up REAL CLOSE to the field border in order to be in the zone, but if you are off-center from the LZ, you can be back much farther and still have a wheel on the triangle. It sounds like referees are going to be very busy looking for wheels on triangles.