Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Hi,

I know it's already build season, but now we have the ability to possibly get a grant for some machine tools.

So far, I read some old threads and decided to try and get a Rong-Fu desktop mill/drill machine. For those who have one, how is it? Would you recommend buying it?

Also, we're looking for a metal band saw, preferably vertical. I found a few but I have no idea how good it is. For year's we've been using a wood bandsaw with a metal cutting blade... it isn't pretty.

We have a drill press, it's old but it still works well. Hand tools are not an issue.

Are there any other tools which would be useful for a robotics team? Note, we do have a price limit, not sure what it is, but we can't ask for radical things like a bridgeport CNC.

Thanks in advance,
Jonathan

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

WHS Robotics was at the regional my team attended last year, in Sacramento! :cool:

I would suggest getting a miter saw. This is useful for cutting aluminum: such as tubing for a frame.

We love our table saw (although we need a new one) and use it regularly for cutting lexan and polycarbonate as well as aluminum plating. It's also been an integral part of constructing our playing field in the past -- cutting lumber -- but the playing field requires much less carpentry this year (much to our relief).

We also have an oscillating, table beltsander which comes in handy sometimes. It wasn't very expensive at all.

Good luck with your new toys!

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Team 752 has a limited budget as well, but we bought a grizzly lathe, bandsaw and milling machine. We got the smaller, cheap versions of all these since not only is our budget limited, but so is our space. I would not want to use these tools every day to make a living, but for our use, they are fine. Last year we didnt have them, and life was very difficult. You might want to consider something to weld with and a press.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

First I would recommend a horizontal bandsaw. It is very useful for cutting down long lengths of any size material. We use it more than the vertical. We have also found an arbor press (manual, not hyrdraulic) to be very useful. Also, a cold saw like what they use on American Choppers comes in handy sometimes but they are expensive.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

About the vertical bandsaw, we have one in our shop. From what I've seen, it seems as if it takes alot of skill to get the right cut. It is usyally fine for small cuts on stock material, but whenever I cut somthing over 3" theres always some descrepency, even if I sharpie in a line. Like sanddrag said, I would reccomend a horizontal bandsaw, the one we have is awesome, it takes almost no effort and makes clean cuts. As for other shop tools, we also have a little stationary vertical disc sander/belt sander, that thing is awesome for rounding off sharp things, frehanding curves, ect... Good luck!

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

I agree with the table saw and miter saw suggestions. I am our teams shop manager, and we just bought a cheaper mill. Make sure that iff you buy a mill you add in the cost of all the bits/clamps/accesories that wou will need or find out what it comes with them.

Lucid

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

I'm part of a second year team that got by with a drill and a drill press as our only power tools (everything else was hand tools last year, and we still placed 15th out of 75 at our regional). Having some debate on what to get this year. Would a jig/sabre saw be of any use, in order to cut framing and large sheet metal (I'd imagine a miter saw to be too difficult if the metal is more than 2x the cutting range, and space/cost are major concerns).

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

a reciprocating saw may be important at regionals if you find your CG too high or functions worthless. Just gut it, we did it last year. It helped our preformance, but it wasn't our finest year

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

I am trying to convince my team that we need to get at least some basic machine tools, and I am specifically interested in something we can use to machine our own parts for transmissions and such. Where could I find information on this topic, and how much money would I be looking at for just a single machine we can at least control from a computer? (as you can tell I havent the faintest clue what I am talking about)

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Russell, it depends on what you want the machine to do. If anything, the most useful (IMO) machine tool you can get other than a drill press and bandsaw probably is a lathe. Now, for a computer controlled one (CNC), depending on the size and quality, you're probably going to spend quite a bit more than a $1000.

Anyways, can anyone recommend a metal band saw? Vertical and/or horizontal.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Some horizontals will actually flip up and act as vertical bandsaws also.

I imagine they cost far more though.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

the short and sweet list of most used tools that i have needed over the last four years.
-Drill press
-band saw
-18v cordless drill and reciprocating saw
-lathe
-drill mill
-grinder
-sander
-drill bits
-reamers
-file set

(our last three robots have probably been 95% constructed with these tools)

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

With the addition of your machining capabilities, don't forget to add some precision measurement equipment. We just added a great team sponsor who distributes SHAN tools:

Allen Design LLC PM me if you need vernier calipers, micrometers, or other products - these are great tools at a VERY affordable price!

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

we have constructed a beautiful tool cart this year, see it at trenton, ohio, and atlanta. we are in the process of stocking it up with pretty much an entire tool shop in a cart. We are considering buying a mini lathe, drill press, and/or grinder. but the weight limits on shipping my stop us from getting the stuff.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Yeah, we have a gorgeous wood cart. It's awesome. (And there's even room for mini-fridge!! :)

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Dude The saber is ok but you need to get a chop saw and an 82 tooth carbide blade it will cut aluminum up to 4 in . Jim :)

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

how bout a decent welder..... essential for putting the robot together! :D

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

In my oppinion, a mill and a lathe are the two most useful and versitile machines in a shop. They cover the two basic shapes, round and square, and with some skill can be used to make or modify close to any part (any part our team has ever needed). Dont forget about befriending people who own machine shops, you can never go wrong with that!
Btw, I would be very interested to see pictures of your tool carts or know what tools, other than the basics, you guys take to the competitions. I usually end up packing the day before and my forgetfulness almost put us in a bad spot a time or two. And our 'tool cart' looks more like roll behind lugage anyway.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Just a few comments regarding shop tools.

You need to distiguish between precision tools and general tools.
Precision can be gained by using general tools to cut to shape and various less expensive means such as grinding or filing or reaming to get to final shape. This, of course, takes a great deal of time. It used to be that apprentice machinists were given a file first and various pieces of metal to shape to size... this gave them a great appreciation for the ways of metal. It is still a valuable exercise. The larger precision tools (metal lathe, mill, shaper, etc.) require skill to operate them properly. If you have a machinist that will work with you to teach you, they can yield tremendous results. They are not easy machines to learn to use without a teacher.

General tool work can be done with simpler tools. They are much easier to master because the tolerance in the cutting/shaping mechanisms are greater.

A lathe and a mill are wonderful tools but please don't just look them up in the catalog and then budget for them and expect to use them...
Figure on doubling the cost ( for less expensive models ) just for the tooling, collets, mills, tables, vises, hold-downs...etc...and find someone to teach you how to use them safely.

If you wish to get a single beginning precision tool that is reasonably well made...and fairly easy to use...but in a smaller size... you might take a serious look at a tool called the Mill-Drill... it functions as both a limited vertical mill and a drill press for about the cost of a better drill press... a mini mill drill runs in the neighborhood of $500 and you can expect to spend about 500- 700 on small rotary table , precision vise...tooling etc... its not a bad place to start... this type of tool is also small enough to carry with you to events... if that matters to you...

One set of items that no one seems to be mentioning are measuring tools...get a couple of good sets ... when we work in metal or plastic we should be thinking in the neighborhood of 1000's of an inch...and this requires specific and quality measuring equipment. At the very least get a couple of the cheaper digital calipers... they will last about a season of hard use..


Well I hope this helps. Many of us have a "catalog" mentality when it comes to machines and tools.. It is much better to acquire a single good tool and then get the necessary accessories to use it, AND to acquire the knowledge from a teacher....then to have a whole shop full of fancy machinery.

thanks

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

we'll in our shop we just got a mill table for a drill press(which sucks). but i have a small max nc mill in my basement which is very versatile and the only limitation is the travel, i do believe it's 5 inches on the x-axis and 4 inches on the y-axis. i also have an old lathe that might be donated to the school if we can get approval by the Board of education. but the machine i would like is the Star Ecas 20 with an automatic barfeeder *drools. but honestly all you need is a lathe and a mill, my uncle had a machine shop for about 20 years before going under and all he really used was a lathe with a tool turret and a mill with digital readout. also if your buying machines old is not bad, the lathe that i have is at least 30 years old and was the original lathe in my uncles shop, it's still as accurate as it needs to be.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Don't invest money in a metal band saw if you can get a wood band saw. From there go to a hardware store and buy a metal blade. Much cheaper

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

i sugest a table saw or a circulal saw along with a saber saw, only because they are more durable

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

hammer!

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

That's what we have, it takes plenty of skill to cut straight lines.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

check out harbor freight www.harborfreight.com its basicly chinese copys of all the american tool companys for a 1/3 of the price. (note- do not buy hand tools from HF, but machine tools and air tools work great) They do have a horizontal/verticle metal bandsaw for i think 160 dollars which sounds like you could use it, as well as mill lathe combos for people with small budgets

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

I would highly recommend you invest in a good belt/wheel sander and some replacement belts and disks. While you won't make parts with it, you will make parts better with it. I find that regardless of what tool I use to make a part, I'll often finish it on the sander. The mill make get the part shaped right, but the sander gets it to fit right. It also gives me a little comfort knowing that I can cut the part large and sand it to fit. With a little practice, you can produce very accurate and attractive parts.

It's probably my favorite tool in the shop. So consider investing some money on a powerful unit that can take abuse and allows for easy belt changes. Nothing is worse the struggling to get a stubbern belt back on track thats keeping you from finishing a critical piece.

-Andy A.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

I was the lead machinist and I've also been involved with drive train/chassis since the beginning. I'm now in college, and a mentor, but I still take part with machining some of the harder bits, and at the same time teaching the kids how to use such tools. we do just about all of our machining in house, so we use the lathe and mill a lot. We have some old lathes, and one new one that the school bought for its pre--engineering class (project lead the way). Although the lathe wasn't a very expensive one, and so not that great,so you can still find me on the wade 8a toolmakers lathe that did it's duty during ww2 making machine gun barrels. So it's not always a bad idea to pick up the local want ad's and look and see what people are selling. Old used equipment can sometimes be better than cheap brand new. As for the band saw talk. We used to have to deal with a old vertical band saw that would take years to cut anything with no precision. Last year however we acquired a new horizontal band saw that can stand up and be used as a vertical band saw. I think we've used that set up only once or twice. But it makes very clean cuts that are very square, and with the ability to dump cutting fluid onto the part,you can actually handle the part without burning your finger prints off. I must suggest Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/ . Ok, let me second the suggestion as I just read that someone already suggested it) They have pretty good prices. CNC is a nice capability to have but I find that for most of the things, the time it takes to draw it up in cad, put it into master cam, then post it out to the machine, with set up takes longer than just making a part by hand. The only reason we normally use CNC is if either the part is extreamly complex, or if we need a lot of one part, then we got to the cnc lab.

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

Hmmmm... Well, make sure to have something like a jigsaw to make extra clovers!

Re: Shop tools, any suggestions?
 

we are definitely representing all the rookies out their with no tools
right now we have a small hand held tool box that contains all of our tools
hoping for donations of more power tools (drill press, band saw, belt sander, miter saw, etc.)