Who Owns This Goal
 

The following situation came up. The Red tetra is on the Blue, but the Blue is higher. The Red vertex is within 6 inches, the Blue isn't. I say Red owns the goal. What do you thinK?

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

I agree that Red owns the goal since it appears that the Red is on top of the blue, even though the blue is higher (interesting little paradox). How was it that the tetras got in that position (i e, in which odrer were they placed onto the goal?)

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

I say Red but at the actual competition, it may depend upon the opinion of the referee. Red will most likely get the points. :]

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

Well i guess it would be the blue since the rules say that the tetra must be completely on the tetra or it isn't counted as on it.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

Well,now that I think about it red is on completely.How did he do that anyone know?

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

We were messing around, putting tetras on two at a time, and they got tangled. This is unlikely to happen during competition, but we need to thank about all the 'angles.'

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

red owns the goal if the blue tetra is more than 6 inches away from the vertex.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

It is a question of interpretation, but the rules do state that the tetra that is physically higher gets ownership, so I'm going to break the trend and go with blue.

Has anyone asked this in an update?

--Petey

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

If blue is indeed in scoring position (the 6" rule and stuff) then I would say blue because if you look at the back corner it shows that blue was put on top slightly after red was.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

yeah, but for that to happen blue has to be "scored" which, according to FIRST, means within 6"

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

How did you even manage to get the tetras in that position anyway? Seriously. Do you even think the tetras will get in that position in a match anyway?

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

Read the thread before you ask questions.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

In opinion non of them will owns the goal.
see the pic I draw.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

Please keep discussion on topic... the original poster asked which would be scored, not whether or not the tetras could indeed get in that position (Which they OBVIOUSLY did since there's a picture of them).

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

It probably will as we did the exact same thing while testing.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

For anyone who is confused, it looks like the blue tetra was horizontally inserted (nested) inside the red tetra, and then both were put on the tower together. I say blue is on top, because each vertex of blue is above the corresponding vertex on red. However, blue is probably not within the 6" measure, so red gets the tower.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

I agree. But if I was the ref, at first glance I would give it to red. But after further inspection I'd go with blue. :]

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

I don't think this is an unlikely thing at all.

If red comes in from one side and blue comes in from the other, I think it is likely that the tetras may meet above the goal and perhaps nest like this (it is quite easy if both robots are trying to get their tetra above the goal and one grabs by the apex of the tetra and other grabs by the bar).

In this case, once one or the other sees the nesting they are likely to let go rather than risk the rules for taking a tetra off the top.

In this case I think it is likely that the situation pictured will happen.

My ruling would be that Nonbody owns this goal. Neither seated properly, so neither count as a stack.

I don't think that is how the rules are, but that is how I would like them to be.

Joe J.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

A check of the definition of "scored" and "stacked" proves that neither the red nor the blue tetras are stacked on the black tetra.

--Petey

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

So then the only way more points could be scored on this goal, or that the goal can change ownership is by removing these two tetras which would now be legal?

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

Either that, or this is a very effective way to block a tetra goal from being scored upon.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

SCORED - a tetra is scored when it is contained within a goal or stacked on top of a goal

STACKED - a tetra is stacked when it is placed on top of a goal or on top of another stacked tetra. to be considered stacked, the tetra must be properly seated on the subordinate goal or tetra such that all four apex connectors are within six inches of the supporting structure. Due to the goal and tetra geometries, a tetra may occasionally not completely "seat" on the goal or subordinate tetra, and remain precariously positioned on top of the structure. such tetras are not considered stacked. A tetra is not considered stacked if it is touching a robot of the same alliance.

SUPPORTED - if the "supporting object" is removed, the tetra would not remain scored or stacked

According to the stacked definition, the blue tetra is not considered stacked (because all four apexes are not within 6 inches of the goal) and would thus be disregarded . considering that, one only needs to look at the red tetra is comparison to the goal, which would become its supporting object. All four red apexes are within six inches of the goal, and their by, red owns the goal.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

Our team discovered the same configuration potential a few days ago. You can create it easily in the following manner: stack a red tetra on a blue tetra; rotate the assembly 90 degrees so that is it on its "side"; and place the resulting rotated assembly on top of a goal. The configuration shown in Alan's picture will result.

With regard to the interpretation of ownership, I believe that Keith is correct, and for the reasons (and specific rules) that he cited. The blue tetra is invalid. The red tetra is "STACKED," and "OWNS" the goal.

-dave

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

I can see that this thread is creating some problems. Maybe I can contact some higher ups and see what they say. I'll reply when I have an answer.

Re: Who Owns This Goal
 

Steven,
If you look up 1 post, you'll notice "Mr. Lavery" responded.
He's about as high up as you get these days.

If a ruling is necessary (I'm not convinced it is) I'm positive we'll see a response in the Q/A or in a team update.

JV