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-   -   Four wheel drive question (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33069)

haverfordfords 19-01-2005 14:39
Four wheel drive question
 
Hi all,

For those of you that are creating robots with four wheel drive, how are you accomplishing this? The included gear box only supports two wheel drive and in order to get it to work four wheel drive you need two of part # FRC-2005-112-009.

Innovation First claims that they, "do not sell the transmission gears or sprockets individually. The gear you are looking for is included in the transmission kit. We only sell transmission kits in complete sets."

A complete set would be ridiculously expensive. My question therefore is how do you go around this technicallity to support four wheel drive, OR how did you order the two parts for four wheel drive without buying the whole set, OR does anyone have any extra of these parts?

If anyone could help out this rookie team, we would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you all,
Jason, Team Leader 1656

ajlapp 19-01-2005 14:45
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
one way to accomplish this would be to drive one set of wheels directly from the gearbox, and drive the other set with a seperate connector chain which is itself driven by those wheels already powered..

this would require adding another sprocket onto each wheel then adding the chain. you may also need to add a tensioner.....as it is a fairly long span for unsupported chain.

also, look through the gallery. teams have been building four wheel drive robots since the start, and none of them have had a ready made two motor gearbox to start with. so you should be several steps ahead! :)

Mark Pettit 19-01-2005 14:55
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
We accomplished it by purchasing the ROBOT-SPROCKETS-2005 kit that is $79.95 at http://www.ifirobotics.com/kitbot.shtml
There are a couple of other threads that already discuss this.

misterfoo 19-01-2005 15:57
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Pettit
We accomplished it by purchasing the ROBOT-SPROCKETS-2005 kit that is $79.95 at http://www.ifirobotics.com/kitbot.shtml
There are a couple of other threads that already discuss this.
We used 4x drive last year and it was great, this year we are modifying the setup to have the same. I have not checked with the mech team this week, but I know the conversion is underway from 2 wheel to 4 wheel drive.

If you want to be very simple, you could order a double chain sprocket from Mcmaster. We also converted our wheels to use 5/8 shaft with a similar sprocket and a keyway.

Here is what I found.

http://www.mcmaster.com/

Search for Double-Strand (page 932)

Steel Double-Strand Plain-Bore Sprockets for ANSI #35-2 to #60-2 Roller Chain

DDRAngelKurumi 19-01-2005 16:16
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
We are just ordering more parts, because we are doing 4-wheel drive too.

GOOD LUCK!

Mark Pettit 19-01-2005 16:17
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by misterfoo
If you want to be very simple, you could order a double chain sprocket from Mcmaster. We also converted our wheels to use 5/8 shaft with a similar sprocket and a keyway.
Please be careful of the advice you are presenting.
The sprockets that came in the kit are custom bored to fit on the kit-tranny shaft. You can't purchase stock sprockets and expect them to fit out of the box. They need to be bored out or at least pressed onto the shaft. This is the 4th time I've had to remind people of this in as many threads, such as this one.

JVN 19-01-2005 16:29
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by haverfordfords
Hi all,

For those of you that are creating robots with four wheel drive, how are you accomplishing this? The included gear box only supports two wheel drive and in order to get it to work four wheel drive you need two of part # FRC-2005-112-009.

Innovation First claims that they, "do not sell the transmission gears or sprockets individually. The gear you are looking for is included in the transmission kit. We only sell transmission kits in complete sets."

A complete set would be ridiculously expensive. My question therefore is how do you go around this technicallity to support four wheel drive, OR how did you order the two parts for four wheel drive without buying the whole set, OR does anyone have any extra of these parts?

If anyone could help out this rookie team, we would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you all,
Jason, Team Leader 1656
Jason,
Innovation First DOES sell sprockets individually, but not gears.
Please refer to this page: http://www.ifirobotics.com/kitbot.shtml

Note: you do not need any additional GEARS to make a 4WD system, only sprockets. You can buy 1 sprocket kit "ROBOT-SPROCKETS-2005" and along with the 2 extra wheels and wheel hubs included in the kit be 4-wheelin' before you know it.

The gearbox is easily convertable to a 4WD configuration. In fact, it was originally designed with 4WD in mind. If you simply buy the extra sprockets, you will be up and ready to go in no time.

If you have more problems, do not hesitate to ask,
John

robolemur1236 19-01-2005 16:31
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
why cant you make the robot 4 wheel drive with just ordering two more sprockets? add those to the ends of the drive shaft, drop another chain, presto! four wheel drive

JVN 19-01-2005 16:44
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
2 Attachment(s)
Refer to attached.
Here are 3 configurations of chain/wheels I sketched up in Paint that may be useful.
Two are 4WD, using different sprocket/chain combos.
One is 6WD.

Just some food for thought.
John


Edit:
Please note, these are just some ideas, there are TONS of ways to reconfigure a drivetrain, and the KOP chassis can be used for quite a few. Every team must decide what seems best.
/Edit

caffel 19-01-2005 18:27
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Use MSC Direct or McMaster Carr or KartWorld.com.
Buy # 35 chain plate sprockets (no hub needed).
Drill a circle of holes using the wheel flange as a template.
Bolt directly to the wheel flanges.
Requires a chain tensioner or having one shaft movable to keep tension on the chain.

Charlie, Team 487

Paul Copioli 19-01-2005 19:02
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Quote:
Use MSC Direct or McMaster Carr or KartWorld.com.
Buy # 35 chain plate sprockets (no hub needed).
Drill a circle of holes using the wheel flange as a template.
Bolt directly to the wheel flanges.
No! You can not use just plate sprockets. The #35 chain will rub against the wheel if you do not have the hub on the sprocket. The hub (1/4" hub projection) on the kit sprocket is the shortest I recommend and still have the chain be a safe distance away from the wheel.

-Paul

Max Lobovsky 19-01-2005 19:03
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Copioli
No! You can not use just plate sprockets. The #35 chain will rub against the wheel if you do not have the hub on the sprocket. The hub (1/4" hub projection) on the kit sprocket is the shortest I recommend and still have the chain be a safe distance away from the wheel.

-Paul
Then simply add a spacer on your bolts.

JVN 19-01-2005 19:06
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Lobovsky
Then simply add a spacer on your bolts.
I recommend the following spacer, if you take this approach.
It will put your chain out a safe distance from the skyway wheel.
The OD of the spacer will fit into the hex indents on the wheel hub.

Spacer – 10-32 Screw, 5/16” OD, 9/16” Length
McMaster Part No. - 94639A786

John

haverfordfords 20-01-2005 00:53
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JVN
Jason,
Innovation First DOES sell sprockets individually, but not gears.
Please refer to this page: http://www.ifirobotics.com/kitbot.shtml

Note: you do not need any additional GEARS to make a 4WD system, only sprockets. You can buy 1 sprocket kit "ROBOT-SPROCKETS-2005" and along with the 2 extra wheels and wheel hubs included in the kit be 4-wheelin' before you know it.

The gearbox is easily convertable to a 4WD configuration. In fact, it was originally designed with 4WD in mind. If you simply buy the extra sprockets, you will be up and ready to go in no time.

If you have more problems, do not hesitate to ask,
John
Thank you everyone for your great suggestions!!! So if I read this correctly, all we need is ROBOT-SPROCKETS-2005 and that has the parts we need? AWESOME! Please just confirm this and we will order that right away. Thanks again!

JVN 20-01-2005 01:16
Re: Four wheel drive question
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by haverfordfords
Thank you everyone for your great suggestions!!! So if I read this correctly, all we need is ROBOT-SPROCKETS-2005 and that has the parts we need? AWESOME! Please just confirm this and we will order that right away. Thanks again!
That's affirmative.
With the "ROBOT-SPROCKETS-2005" Kit ($80 + shipping) you can construct the 4WD configuration I show on the right in my above post.

Isn't that awesome?
Less than $100 for a fully working 4-motor, 4WD base.
It's a brave new world.

JV


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