2 Globe Motors???
 

I am a bit confused (as usual). How many Globe motors are we allowed to use on the robot this year? Our KOP came with only one as the Team Update #1 clarified. Rule <R39> clearly states that we cannot use motors other than or IN ADDITION TO those provided in the KOP. I happened to be reading through some of the Questions and Answers on the FIRST site tonight and found question # 1284 answered today (1/24/2005):

Q: You instructions for changes and the kit inventory listed two globe motors. I know you only shipped one, but we need clarification. Can we use two globes as in past years ? Please change posted information if required.

A: You can use two Globe motors. You were only shipped one.

What's up with this? When and where were we notified that we could use more than the one Globe motor than came in the KOP??? Does this apply to any other motors other than the Globe motors? Did I just miss some big announcement or something? Doesn't this seem like something FIRST should have made very clear well before WEEK 3 of the build??? Since when are we allowed to use motors from last years KOP in addition to this years kit?

-Chuck

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

FIRST cleared this up in the first Team Update I believe. They implicitly stated that they incorrectly put down the quantity as two.

You are only allowed to use one globe on your robot.

**EDIT**
Sorry, I wasn't aware that the Q&A answer you received was up to date.

If this is the case, FIRST messed up big time... people will be screaming about this and the tether rule in no time.

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

I have reread Update #1 and all it says is that the KOP should have 1 not 2 Globe motors. I understand this. What I am asking is why does the OFFICAL FIRST Q&A system (Question #1284) say that we can use 2 Globe motors???

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

Someone messed up big time... I think that's about all we can figure out for now.

Is it safe to build your robot assuming we're allowed two? who knows? Sounds to me like even more clarification from FIRST is needed

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

I guess they're saying that because you can. They did the exact same thing with their ruling on how many Clippard tanks you could use. (They sent one in the kit, said you couldn't add any more, and then said that you could actually use two.) Yeah, some people will be upset. I guess we gotta deal with it. It's better that they're expanding what you can do, rather than constricting it. Now THAT would get people up in arms.

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

I noticed this too, and filed it away in the "check to see if it's still there tomorrow" category.

Incidentally, like the Globes, the Tiagene motors were supplied in unit quantity, but notated as qty. 2 in the KOP checklist; if this is intentional, they might have similar thoughts regarding the Tiagene too...now that would be very useful.

But it's probably just an error. Like the thing about electrically conductive slip rings (banned yesterday, mysteriously allowed today).

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

What is this tether rule you mentioned Cory?

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

After readin all the posts in this thread, I can just call out for FIRST to give us the answer. DAVE HELP US!!!

-Arefin.

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

It was a rule from several years ago, when FIRST said you could tether your robot, so long as you didn't use it to entangle other robots. Unfortunately, teams kept stretching the definition of "entanglement" farther and farther until FIRST finally banned it, which upset a lot of people.

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

In 2002 FIRST originally said that nothing that could cause entanglement with other robots would be allowed in making "tethers" to span the field. This was pretty much aimed at discouraging tape measures.

When tape measures started showing up all over the field and were allowed, people that spent tons of effort to make non entangling tethers were pretty pissed.

Same kind of thing. Teams that built their bots on the premise of one globe won't be happy if this is right

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

If I had to guess, it would be the particularly awful "tape measure" rules and rulings from 2002. In that year, there was concern about entanglement by extensible devices, like motorized tape measures; contradictory Q&A answers were posted, then the entanglement rules were clarifed and reinterpreted--but by the time the season came around, teams were regularly installing and using illegal ones (such as from vendors other than Small Parts), and getting away with it. Plus, the penalties for entanglement itself were not consistently enforced.

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

See team Update #1

Taigene Sliding Door Motor
The "Gray Container Item 5 Loose" should have contained 1 motor, not 2. The Kit of Parts
list incorrectly specified a quantity of 2.

Globe Motor
The "Gray Container Item 5 Loose" should have contained 1 motor, not 2. The Kit of Parts
list incorrectly specified a quantity of 2.

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

Forgive me if I am incorrect here since I was not around FIRST before last year but this seems totally different than the "tether" rule being spoken of. That seems more like a rule interpretation issue. The 2 vs. 1 Globe motor thing seems more cut and dry to me.

1) <R39> clearly says we can only use the motors in the KOP.
2) We all got one Globe Motor in the KOP.
3) Three weeks into the build season FIRST now says "Oh yeah, you can really use 2 Globe motors if you want."

It is hard to say we will have to just "wait and see tomorrow" since we are almost half way through the build season.

Edit: Does this mean we can also use 2 of the Taigene motors as well?

-Chuck

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

Sorry Tyler, but this was issued today*...it's newer than the update.

The tether situation was merely an example of some badly-executed rulings by the Q&A team, exacerbated by inconsistent officatiation. It's not directly related, yet.

Since they haven't actually said that two Tiagene motors are allowed (only taking the unusual step of doing so with the Globes), I don't think that that's a good assumption; as I said, this will probably become clear tomorrow. If that's not satisfactory, call FIRST in the morning (there's a number in the manual), and they'll sort something out.

*Today, meaning just before midnight, yesterday, the 24^th....

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

I stand corrected

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

ID: 1284 Section: 5.4.1 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/25/2005
Q: You instructions for changes and the kit inventory listed two globe motors. I know you only shipped one, but we need clarification. Can we use two globes as in past years ? Please change posted information if required.
A: ANSWER CORRECTED ON 1/25/2005. THE CORRECT ANSWER FOLLOWS: One was supplied in the kit and you can only use one.

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

This clearly falls under the give it a day and it may change, My favorite is the Q and A that has so many Yes and No's in it I completely forgot what it was about. Globes are one of my favorite motors It would have been easer if we could have used two but now back to plan A. Trying like the Dickens to make weight on paper and not use air this year. Cheers Tom Cooper

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

Joe just referenced the answer that was given today, which backs up the original statement in Team Update number 1.

Don't use two globes.

Re: 2 Globe Motors???
 

Alright everyone. It's even more official (like many of us figured it would be sometime today), just one Globe motor per robot. I'm closing this thread now.