Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

for the new guys and girls on you team do you get blamed for every mistake??? :confused:

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

^ well not every mistake but most of the mistakes because i am blamed alot: (Hint my name is GOOBER)

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Let's face it, most of the mistakes ARE made by newbies. I asked our freshman this year to assemble the kit-bot chassis... they put bracekts in up-side down and were missing about 30 bolts... there are directions and no excuses. Not to say that veterans don't make mistakes, we do, I do, but newbies make them far more frequently in general.

Edit: I looked at what I've experienced and what the numbers show, and looking at them in a purely objective manor. My post is what I found. Obviously you don't yell at rookies, belittle them and such, it's just not right to do. I know FIRST is a learning experiance, I've learned more on my team than anywhere else. BUT if the robot fails to ship or perform because of a mistake, the whole team is let down. Measure ten times, cut once.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

*deep breath*

Everyone makes mistakes, regardless of how long you've been doing anything, we all forget a bolt, or forget what pin something is on, or forget to solder something, or cut something wrong, or have a typo in a press release, it happens. A wise man told me a few nights ago, that it is important to own up to all your mistakes, so that others can see you doing that and wont deny and try to hide their own.

When you make a mistake, learn from it, take that oppertunity to see what else can be improved, and move on. If someone else makes a mistake, its not because they are inferiour to you, or bad at stuff, they just made a mistake thats all. Take that oppertunity to show to them how to do it properly, and how to do it better in the future.

No need for blame games, thats petty and just ends up causing more problems, while never fixing the origional problem.

BTW, that wise person was Mr. Baker, and even with his vast amounts of skills, experience, and knowledge, he will be the first to tell you he makes mistakes too, so it doesn't matter who you are, we all do it.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Your first year on a robotics team is definitely a learning process (and it remains that way for the rest of your time on the team too). Whenever we learn new things, we are bound to make mistakes. Mistakes are ok, in my opinion. In fact, I think mistakes are good.

When I was a freshman, I knew absolutely nothing. I was so clueless about robotics... I don't even know why I stayed on the team. So naturally, I made alot of mistakes. Many many dumb mistakes. When one makes mistakes, yes, that person is responsible for them. However, too often failure is viewed in a negative light. I know it sounds like a bit of a paradox, but one of the philosophies of my team has always been this: "failure is desirable".

What makes failure desirable? How does that make any sense?

When someone makes a mistake, they learn something. They get a deeper understanding for what makes [insert aspect of robotics here] work/not work the way it does. In this way, they have benefited from their failure. They know not to make that certain mistake again, and they learn something from it.

I don't like it when members of a team get "blamed" in a negative way when things go wrong. It doesn't help anyone, and it makes the members of the team feel more self conscious about making a mistake. Within every group of people, there is a certain "mistake comfort level". How comfortable to you feel about messing up or not knowing what to do? Do you feel alienated or do you feel that someone is willing to help?

On a team, I believe that one should feel comfortable with not knowing... there should not be an atmosphere of disrespect for those who know less. The lack of a high "comfort level" is what is responsible, in many instances, for making people quit a robotics team. It makes me sad to read that people "get blamed for everything that goes wrong", when they should be treated with more respect. Someone should be constructively explaining what went wrong and why, instead of playing the blame game. Blame does not help anyone.

Alot of times this disrespect comes from other members of the team. Freshmen/rookies are often treated with contempt by veterans. I am disappointed with veterans' behavior towards those who are merely trying to learn. I am disappointed when those who are supposed to be teaching the rookies, end up discouraging them. Discouragement is not what FIRST is all about. FIRST is about inspiration.

Another reason why I hate discouraging behavior is this: an example of disrespect is being demonstrated to the younger members of the team. Negative attudes will be passed from one "generation" of veterans to another. The rookies will be taught that it is ok to yell at other people, blame them for what goes wrong, and treat them poorly. This cycle of bad attitude will stick with the team, until someone tries to break it... a very difficult thing. Negativity will fester for years within the team dynamic, and everyone will be worse off.

So next time you feel like yelling at a freshman because they made a dumb mistake, try to be constructive and explain what they did wrong respectfully. Don't ruin the experience of "failure" for them. View their failures as an experience in which they learned, not in which they screwed everything up for the team. Think about what the goals and objectives of FIRST are, and make a decision to inspire, not discourage.

-- Jaine

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

No, that's Kyles fault.

Wetzel

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I am on on mechanical sub team and im kinda new wqith mechanical and i kinda get yelled at once in a while cuz im just not fast enough to get tools, etc.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Some. To demonstrate the situation I'm in, here's a little story. Just now, soda was being handed out. Somebody dropped one and someone said, "Just give that to somebody." Immediately, they gave it to me. :D

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Well, when I was a rookie, I wasn't blamed for too much...considering I didn't do much at all with the 'bot. But sometimes they'd jokingly blame me for things. They still do on occasion, but it's all in good fun.
No worries, Goober. FIRST is about teamwork and developing good positive relationships with your teammates and other teams, but it's moreso about learning from experiences. Don't sweat the small stuff, rookie. ;)

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Yes, yes i do, since i joined in 1998 its always been way to go mike, or mike did it or something like that

I am now a college mentor and the kids on my team still blame me for stuff

but i wouldn't have it any other way

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I don't but we always blame our lead programmer Miles. LOL

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Remember any mistakes that you make can always be corrected with super glue.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Ahhh!!! my teamates always shift the blame on to me or the entire team, cuz they all know i am bad at telling the truth.:(


and some times we blame it on the niners... guess what we call the niners while the teachers away..."SLAVES" we make they clean the floor and everything else, and that's how i was traded last year..i think i am kinda going off topic. oh, well.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

FIRST Lesson 1:
Don't go "We should paint these joysticks" and then wiggle the joystick randomly while mentors hands are in the drivetrain.

...enough said.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I'm a rookie and I haven't made too many mistakes...The biggest i made was probably when I was machining a part and i shaved 1/4" too much off, wasn't a big deal, but we couldn't use it once someone forgot to compensate for the 1/4" by moving the holes 1/8" in on each side :P

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

In my experience, I have seen blame-shifts on 1293 very rarely, if ever.

However, the moment any loud crashing noise is heard, three words can often be heard...

(see, kids? you learn more than building robots in FIRST--you also learn how to be smooth.)

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Mistakes can always be made while participating in robotics, and there is no way to change that.

The reason you are on a robotics team is to learn. No one is perfect and you are better off realizing that you have made the mistake, than shifting the blame to someone else. The more mistakes you make or hear about being made, the more you learn. Many are quick to blame a newbie for a problem; this is only hurting the persons enjoyment in FIRST and can be extremely counter productive.

I have to admit that I get blamed for a lot that goes wrong at competitions…. and I have learned to accept that. I would rather move on and correct the fault than stand around and fight about an insignificant problem.

Mistakes are never made by one person alone and many people forget that. You need to work on a system to prevent mistakes from happening, making a better and safer work environment.

So you made a mistake….. You live and you learn.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I am a third year member of MOE and I still make mistakes every meeting, I would like to accept the blame but I usually try to run and hide so someone else catches the heat. Joking I don't do that.


Like many others in this thread have said so far is everyone makes mistakes and they should get the blame due to them, some people make more mistakes then others but they are not just mistakes they are learning experiences.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Alright lets face it...

I understand that rookies aren't on the same level as veterans on the team. But the rookies come up with amazing stuff (I have seen it happening), they amaze me at times. Yes, at times we do yell at them (fine most of the time), but at the same time, we do respect what they had to say as we would respect any other member on the team. If they are wrong, us veterans always try to show them the right path.

Rookies... dont feel bad. Its learning time. This is the best experience you will ever get. When a veteran on the team let you down, dont give up, because you are the future of the team. If you have questions about anything, ask your veteran members on the team or the mentors, they will help you out.

the whole "yeling at freshmen" has been a tradition, it doesnt mean that we hate freshmen.

... enough said

-Arefin.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

yes newbies learn but over the time perod i have been blamed on alot of things not all but a few like today i herd this quote milloions of times " Blame it on The Goober!!!"
not a lie!!!

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

millions*

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I am a programmer, of course I do.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Personally, we blame the programmers.
However, yesterday someone else took all the blame, after all it was their fault.
Condensed story:
Alignment on wheels was off, so I was holding onto the robot. Told the certain person to move the slider a little down, they put it all the way up. Robot dragged me across the room, into a wall, then the person over-compensated, and the robot reversed, pushing me the other way.
It was an... interesting.... day. Needless to say that person was blamed for the rest of the day, especially when the chain ripped off, ripped through the plexiglass our electrical was mounted on, and broke one of the spikes that I was then forced to repair.
:rolleyes:

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Mistakes are all part of learning .. everyone makes them .. whether it is your first year on the team or your fourth year on the team .. like my mentor said the other day "hindsight is always 20/20" and that works for both mentors, freshmen, and seniors.

I'm a senior and I make loads of mistakes but at the same time I also learn from those mistakes and the younger ones on the team know not to do what I did .. so while I learn from my own mistakes, so do others. Sure freshmen make more mistakes than others, but the biggest mistake a senior can make is not teaching a freshman what they did wrong. If you don't do that then they will never learn and next year when you are gone they will do the same thing.

The important thing to remember is that you are a team and in the end it is no single person's fault.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

we don't really blame the newbies-- we used to blame on guy for everything it was always seth did it, seth's fault--he has graduated in 04 but those of us that knew him still at time say it's seth's fault and we also say it's gilligan's fault just because..always someone to blame for the sillest things basically
-not being mean of course just having fun especially when it's late and you have been working all day long

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

we just blame it on zahid. who i havent seen for a while since he graduated last year. doesnt matter if he's touched or even seen the robot or not. its his fault. no argueing,

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I don't really do actual mechanical work because I am an absolute klutz but out of the 7 programmers, the 2 seniors quit, 1 junior never comes and one has never programmed before and the rest of us are rookies. Only one of us actually had background in C so really all of us were programming rookies. Fortunately for us, since the mechanical teams had a small problem getting the arm and drive train built, most of the problems were based on electronics; we just found them. This made debugging horrible because we would fix our problem and they would spend 1- 2 hours fixing theirs. So, on my team, instead of blame it on the rookies it's blame it on electronics.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

YES!!!! the thing i hear the most is "OH... now you gon an' dun it squirrel(reilly) !!!!*giggles*"

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

mistakes (or the proper engineering term: bugs) is something you will deal with for the rest of your life if you are an engineer.

You have to develop a new way of thinking:

1. the only way you can completely avoid making any mistakes is to do nothing all the time. Unfortunately its hard to find someone to pay you money to do nothing.

2. When you are designing and fabricating a system, mistakes (bugs) are expected! This is why we have test equipment in the lab (lots of expensive test equipment), an acceptance test procedure that makes sure the system does everything it is suppose to do, and a manufacturing test procedure to make sure that each unit built is correctly fabricated and assembled.

3. Trying to create a design and assembly process in which no mistakes EVER make it out the door results in super-high quality AND super-high prices (think $900 AirForce Hammer)

4. when you are in the design phase you try to avoid mistakes (bugs), by having design reviews and checklists for each step of the project.

5. after you assemble a prototype you try to FIND mistakes (bugs) by testing testing and more testing. At this point bugs are golden because finding them keeps defective product from going out the door, and it lets you go back and see where the bug was introduced in the design of the product, so you dont keep making the same mistakes over and over.

With all this said, the idea of making mistakes is very different to engineers than it is with most people. We dont attach our egos to our work. If we make a mistake its not because we are stupid, or not trying hard enough, or we dont know what we are doing

its because we are engineers, and engineers venture into unknown territory BOLDLY, doing things no one has ever done before.

BTW, a good example of this "new way of thinking" is what happens at design reviews. When we review another engineers work we NEVER say anything about the designer, only about the design. If you find a mistake you dont say "whoa, this is stupid, what were you thinking?" we say: this doesnt look right to me, I think you need something more like this......"

Once you contribute something to a design or fabrication, its not 'you' anymore, its the design, its the system. Personal performance reviews are separate, held behind closed doors with your manager, not infront of all your co-workers. An even then, a good engineering manager will never say "you dont seem to know what you are doing", or "you do a lot of stupid things". Performance reviews say focused on the quality of your work, and things you can do (training, etc) to improve your performance.

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

im teh president so i blame everyone else but mostly our newest freshman
chris dragomer.. he gets blamed for everything

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

Our coach gave me a $500 fine yestarday because nobody put away this box that had a bunch of things we ordered out on a table. It was empty and the order costed $500. He asked me if i knew where the parts were (He gave the box to me at the begining of our meeting the day before), I was like - ****. 10 minutes later he opens up a cabnet and takes out all the parts, he smiled and said he hoped I wouldnt do it again. I can tell you this right now, im never going to leave anything out again LOL.

Everyone makes mistakes, when I am teaching newbies how to do things I usualy let them figure it out themselves, then check it before they do anything irreversable (drill a hole, or cut something). If they set it up wrong or didnt mark it right then i tell them and they usualy gladly fix it. I dont blame them and say stuff like "You cant do anything right!". I save that for when they have a real bad additude about everything :rolleyes:

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I find it more fun to blame one of our team leads Troy just cause it works out that way

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I'm not a new guy, this is my second year but i am a programmer, so I get blamed for everything anyway. :(

Robert Flanagan, 1390, St. Cloud, Florida

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

On my team the new programmers (ME!), along with the old programmers, get blamed for almost everything!

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

I got blamed for a lot of stuff my first year (last year) because everyone knew my older brother, and they didn't like him, so they decided they didn't lik me. But I fixed that as soon as possible by doing a lot of stuff right, when they thought i couldn't, so that's all you have to do, work hard, work right, and you should be fine.(although i'm still blamed a lot)

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

i get blamed for things that happen on the other side of the room all because of montclaire mayhem...

<goes into overly eleberate flash back>
i remeber it like it was yesterday

i was driving the robot in the finals and twice we were clipped and pulled down by a passing robot cough 1626 cough no hard feelings :D

so the second time the manipulator arm was bent way to the side.


<comes back to present>

so anyways no everyone calls me the bender even rookies
no one beleives me that it wasnt my fault
only 4 members went to that event so i tell people that if they wanted anything diffrent to happen they should of been there

my team inspired the nick under the name team scape goat

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

wee=ll not yet anyway, not because I'm a rookie but because I'm on programming. When the robot is finished being built, sure a few tweaks here and there but if the robot doesn't move, "PROGRAMMING!!"

Re: Do you get blamed for every thing one your team!!!
 

HAHA...or duct tape