Chief Delphi - Is this legal

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Re: Is this legal

I am glad to see that our frame is causing so much controversy. Just to reiterate..it is a frame, not BUMPERS. Also, I would like to personally thank everyone who has stuck up for us in the onslaught of words that have been thrown against this robot.

Our purpose in this design is to keep OUR robot from being pushed or shoved while we are capping a goal/picking up a tetra/ doing any thing to help our alliance win the match. I see for a few people who have posted that they are concerned about us flipping robots left and right, or lifting up their wheels. "Inhibiting motion" as some have called it. I assure to you our goal is NOT IN ANY MANNER to tip an opposing robot or to "inhibit them". I also offer this counterexample...If a robot is in front of you NOT PINNING you, just keeping you from going to the other side of the field, is that inhibiting your motion. It certainly is limiting it. They do not need to pin you against a field element, they are just getting in your way. We dont plan on lifting up a robot off the ground, and holding them there so they cannot move.

To any other doubters out there, if you could look further into our design. There is .5" + of flat before you get to any part of the wedge. The only way a robot is going to flip over against us, is if they decide to (to quote Cory's example) hit us going 10 fps, which probably isn't smart against any kind of robot...or if we push them for a good 4-5 seconds.

And just one more comment, which is purely my own 2 cents...If our wedge is scaring you that much, maybe our design is working. If that couple pounds of aluminum wrapped around the outside of our robot is causing some people to sweat so much, I think that half our battle is already won. Thanks again to the people who have stood up for us, not only as being legal, but not bashing our design. I think the people who are doubting us, will be pretty shaken when they see the amount of robots that will have some kind of wedge on them. Good luck everybody!

Re: Is this legal

Let's just blame FIRST for not being specific enough about entanglement and blocking. I agree that a wedge is legal for a defense, but illegal when used as an offense. I never believed that you guys intented to flip people over and/or inhibit motion, but a wedge could quickly go that route. Don't worry about our bot though. When I get to work on it, I am going to prevent access to the undercariage of our bot with plexiglass and self-tapping screws. Try flipping us now *Sticks out tongue*.

BTW: I think that ramming robots at high speed is against <G25> so if you do flip over by doing that, it is your fault because you violated a rule to do that.

Re: Is this legal

I don't see what FIRST was vague about. There's no way to make the rule any more objective than it is. This is a very subjective issue no matter what way you look at it. It's all up to the discretion of a ref if a team was using a wedge with malicious intent.

Re: Is this legal

The interpretation of the flipping rules that WPI has in both the Savage Soccer competition and at Battlecry is:

Quote:

Robots may not intentionally flip the opposing team's robot. The flipping robot will be disqualified from the match if, in the referee's decision, they initiated a lifting action which results in flipping; if the flipped robot initiates the action, there is no penalty. In all cases, and especially when both the flipper and the flipped are in motion, the final decision is up to the referees, whose decisions are final.

I believe this is very much in the spirit of FIRST's rules. Let's not get technical in trying to redefine words like blocking and entanglement.

Re: Is this legal

Im no Ref, But i'm calling it legal b/c its what holding their chassis together, they used a picture frame design so that they can squeeze an extra inch for instance,

5 secs at the end of the match all 3 robots go to the end zone that space between the goals is only big enough to fit one robot comfortably =) if Team A (call that mort) and team B (call it a high off the ground robot) robot go between goal 1 and 2 mort can just slide underneath w/o worry about knocking team b out of the zone trying to make sure that they get completely in the zone as well. (i'd draw picture better explaining what i'm thinking but its way to early and i've had a bad week =(. )

Thats how I see there design, besides at least half these teams are building high off the ground as it is so i doubt mort will be DQ'd for a tipping problem.

Re: Is this legal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Jenks

Bob92 (& other critics),

While I am sure you meant no harm and simply wished to gain clarification of the rules, in the future please try to do so without pointing fingers at any specific team (either directly or indirectly).

This type of thread is exactly the reason why many veteran teams no longer post pictures of their robots on this site. Over the last few years numerous teams have been attacked, and basically put on trial, after simply attempting to share the results of their hard work. Please keep in mind that every team puts an enormous amount of time and effort into their design, and when they post it here it is because they are proud of their results and wish to share them with you. This sharing is one of the great things about FIRST, and one you would be hard pressed to find in any other competitive environment.

I, for one, look forward to seeing the innovative approaches and unique designs that teams share here each year. Let’s not stifle that by creating an environment where people are hesitant to post their most creative ideas because they are afraid of the fallout.

By the way 11 – Nice chassis, if you have a good arm to go with that you’ll be a tough team to stop!

Can anyone say Truck Town in 2003? Theu unveiled an absolutely beautiful robot- with an concept nobody else had thought of, reaching over the bridge to block the entire field.. After revealing their picture way before any regionals, FIRST banned this kind of concept, and 68 was forced to scrap what made their robot elevate from an amazing bot to an absolute beast.

about the wedge- if team 11 is a great capper but does not have much traction, their best method to go would be with a wedge, so teams could not push them around when they are capping. Wedges aren't always malicious, used properly they can be critical strategic elements.

Re: Is this legal

Quote:

Originally Posted by amateurrobotguy

Whatever you feel is necessary.