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-   -   I think we found our limit .. (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35271)

roboticsguy1988 22-02-2005 23:04

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oneangrydwarf
what about some system that based your priority of access to the server off of reputation? Like it would be guests with the lowest priority, and then registered users, and then go up as your rep went up...

Just an idea....

That sounds like a good idea.

Man i would sure donate money to keep Chief Delphi running.

CD is addicting, maybe too addicting........ NAAAA never. :D

KTorak 22-02-2005 23:06

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanda Morrison
Instead of denying guests all together, we just allow registered members to use the forums before guests do? i.e., a guest would get an error message before a registered member.

I don't think its as easy as it sounds, it'd be pretty difficult to prioritize access...

roboticsguy1988 22-02-2005 23:12

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KTorak
I don't think its as easy as it sounds, it'd be pretty difficult to prioritize access...

No one ever said it would be easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.J. Fluck
I dont know anything about PHP, but i dont really think you could do this. For people that dont save their login information, they come onto the site as a guest before they'd log in....if the website would block out guests in favor of the registered user, they never would be able to get in until it has cleared out enough for them to get on and log in.

Yeah, i am not sure how it works at CD, but you might show up as a guess even if you are set to auto login. I mean there could be that split 1/2 of a second before your logged on, lol. If not then all everyone would have to do is have there computer "remember them".

russell 22-02-2005 23:36

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
I am definetly opposed to limiting anyones access to the site. What about people who are not members but might become one? Should a person have to register in order to evaluate the site (decide whether they want to register)? Additionally I also disagree with limiting access based on reputation. As most people reading this are members of a robotics team or club most of you probaly know what I mean when I say that I am totally fed up with most "class president" and "prom queen" type popularity contests. I dont want to turn this into a debate over the rep system, but while it is not just a popularity contest, it is based on the same principle, and I dont beleive it should be used to limit access to the site. Also new teams are the ones that need help the most, and they would be low on the priority list.

Personally I like the donations idea. So the number of people is 300. If each of those people donated a dollar that would buy an ok processory (I have no idea what is being used now but I assume an upgrade would cost more than $300). If one hundred of those people though "hey im feeling generous make it ten bucks" another hundred thought "hey what the heck five bucks isnt that much" and the last hundred decided they could afford a dollar easily enough that would come out to 1600 dollars (I think). Suppose another few people are very well off and figured they could chip in a hundred dollars. Pretty soon you are talking about serious money.

Stephen Kowski 22-02-2005 23:54

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
paypal donations sound like the way to go for me.....

Ken Leung 22-02-2005 23:55

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
It is great that you guys feel so strongly about people's access to this website and ways to make things work, but ultimately this is an issue for team 47's leaders to decide.

There are some pretty serious considerations here. There are many things we have to examine: the goals of this website (who is going to be benefit from this place and how?), the cost of running and maintaining, the cost of upgrading hardwares, the future of this forum (taking a hard look at the growth it is going to face after this season), and how much resource it's going to take to make sure this forum is operating smoothly.

If the growth is going to continue, there are going to be some hard (and easy) choices to make. Fortunately I know we are in the good hands of team 47. Just like FIRST and the rest of the world, change is inevitable. But I know that whatever happens, it will be based on a lot of thoughts and consideration, and that it is necessary.

So, let's be patience, and see what team 47 come up with. If you have good suggestions, keep them coming. But let's not rush the discussion as if we have to decide on the change(s) by tomorrow.

evulish 23-02-2005 00:24

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
I think blocking guests is a very BAD idea. This forum was made for FIRST teams but is still a resource for people interested in robotics. If they're just looking for a quick answer from a question that's already been asked, why force them to register? People looking for a quick answer aren't probably going to want to register (or even be able to find the answer they're looking for). I personally don't think people should be obligated to give anything back. It's nice if they do, but if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced into it. Also, last time I checked, Googlebot wasn't a registered ChiefDelphi Forums member, and CD has a pretty high pagerank. Knocking off all unregistered users is going to hurt CD's popularity. They won't be able to find any threads on search engines, and even if they did, they'd have to register to view it.

Also, this was just a big traffic spike, it's not like it's absolutely necessary to upgrade hardware since it seems 300 users aren't usually on this board.

Mike AA 23-02-2005 00:26

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
Maybe another alternative, depending on how much bandwidth we use (didn't look for the link, it's here somewhere), another option would be to get a dedicated sDSL line or T1 or simmilar plus a self built and setup server, many of us on here have done this and I'm sure if the money spend on the service as is was transferred to this type of setup it could possibly decrease cost. And maybe run more effiently, and there might not be limits.

-Mike

mike-site

ahecht 23-02-2005 00:31

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
^I'm pretty sure the limit comes from the processor and RAM, not the link to the internet or bandwidth. Every time a user views a page, the server has to custom generate it for them. Multiply this by 300 or so users, and you start to have a problem.

Jeff Rodriguez 23-02-2005 00:33

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
I bet that a good amount of your guests are registered users checking from a public PC, i.e. school, work. I know I have checked CD a few times during class, and I bet many people have.
Blocking guests may aggravate a lot of people.

NoodleKnight 23-02-2005 00:34

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by evulish
I think blocking guests is a very BAD idea. This forum was made for FIRST teams but is still a resource for people interested in robotics. If they're just looking for a quick answer from a question that's already been asked, why force them to register? People looking for a quick answer aren't probably going to want to register (or even be able to find the answer they're looking for). I personally don't think people should be obligated to give anything back. It's nice if they do, but if they don't want to, they shouldn't be forced into it. Also, last time I checked, Googlebot wasn't a registered ChiefDelphi Forums member, and CD has a pretty high pagerank. Knocking off all unregistered users is going to hurt CD's popularity. They won't be able to find any threads on search engines, and even if they did, they'd have to register to view it.

Also, this was just a big traffic spike, it's not like it's absolutely necessary to upgrade hardware since it seems 300 users aren't usually on this board.

I don't think the notion was to block guests, but rather to create reserved slots for those who took the time to register, giving them priorities over those who don't. They need to register to post anyways (unless they use the search function and find an answer to their question).
Reserved slot's shouldn't be too hard from what I see. I'm not sure about vBulletin, but phpBB grants ever visitor a unique ID number --, make the forums look at the number, if it is a guest/anonymous user, redirect them to a page suggesting them to: login, register, or come back in a minute or so when the traffic dies down.

I also agree with evulish though, in the fact that traffic spikes aren't too common on CD -- a hardware upgrade isn't vital at the moment.

Amanda Morrison 23-02-2005 00:51

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by D.J. Fluck
I dont know anything about PHP, but i dont really think you could do this.

Come on... if there is anything I have learned from ChiefDelphi, it's to never underestimate the coding genius that is Brandon Martus.

Brandon Martus 23-02-2005 00:55

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
I'll elaborate a little more, I suppose.

Right now we have one Intel(R) Celeron(R) CPU 2.40GHz. In a "perfect world"TM adding one more, along with another 1/2 to 1GB of RAM would make the site load much faster. Unfortunately, as it was mentioned above in a reply, we really only need that about a dozen times spread around a 3 month period. So, it's not really worth the monthly upgrade cost (yeah, we rent the server, so monthly upgrade fees are ridiculous) in the long run.

So. I'm looking at vBulletin code right now, to see if Registered members get priority over guests. All it does is count the sessions in the session table (ones that may be expired too) and if its over 300 (or whatever I set it to) then it denies you. So, right now there are 85 active people on .. but there are 302 rows in the session table, so it (incorrectly) denies people.

You all made some very good assumptions and had good ideas. It is possible to prioritize who it denies, based on registered vs. guests, or reputation, or by who has a longer username, or by whose team has won more matches in 2002. Anything is possible.

.. well, almost anything.

I took off the limitation .. there's probably a better way to handle this. I'll have to think about it tomorrow, when I'm looking over the apache configuration. Hopefully some configuration optimization will help fix this.

If we do go with a limitation, though, it really would only happen about 1/2 dozen times a year. Kickoff. Ship date. First regional weekend. Championship Event. Pre-Kickoff. So, it's not like we'd be constantly blocking guests.

As for donations and ChiefDelphi merchandise to help with the funding .. we know that there are some of you who are willing to help out, and if that time ever comes we know who to turn to. Thank you. :)

Mike AA 23-02-2005 00:55

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Amanda Morrison
Come on... if there is anything I have learned from ChiefDelphi, it's to never underestimate the coding genius that is Brandon Martus.

and those working with him? :cool:

Daniel Brim 23-02-2005 01:13

Re: I think we found our limit ..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by oneangrydwarf
what about some system that based your priority of access to the server off of reputation? Like it would be guests with the lowest priority, and then registered users, and then go up as your rep went up...

Just an idea....

I highly disagree. Most members of this forum have one or no dots, and if you think about it, most questions (at least during the season) come from new members asking questions for their team. I think that blocking members with little/no rep would be counterproductive to the purpose of the forums

My $0.02

-Daniel


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