Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

hi I'm from a rookie team (1676) and was just wondering wat are the rules for a robot cart. I couldn't find anything from FIRST and thought all you veterans would be able 2 help. We are interested in using a pneumatic lift on our cart, just to give you some background. Are we allowed to have a compressor and power source to our cart? What are the basic cart rules?

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

FIRST dosn't really care about the cart. It depends on the regional that you are at. However, there are some basic things to keep in mind. Pnumatic lift is fine, having a sterio on the cart is fine, having the cart motorized is fine, having batteries / neons / compressors on your cart is all fine.

Just don't be obnoxious. People don't want to hear how loud you can make a cart when they are trying to work in the pits. Try to keep it small enough to fit through a standard door, and make it fairlly portable.

Have fun with it, make it cool, and be respectful to those around you.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

There really aren't any rules (to the best of my knowledge) except for the obvious no hurting anyone. Basically, as long as you can keep it in your own pit (I guess that means it can't have dimensions larger than your pit size) there's no other real "regulations"

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

At Team 234, we found it very useful to have a table within out cart. We use a 2 foot by 4 foot banquet table (white, hard plastic) with 4 mounted heavy-duty wheels on the bottom. The legs fold under, and you can roll the robot around, but, when needed, the cart becomes a very stury table. We attached a rectangular poll for pulling, but that can be solved however.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

Even though many teams will say this doesn't matter, make your cart so it can fit through a regular doorway.... You will be surprised at how often you will need to do this, on and off season.
Also try to build so that you can work on robot on cart while in team queing. There is a lot of time spent queing....

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

basically you get an idea, but i will have to say it again, MAKE SURE IT FITS THROUGH THE DOOR! and remember to include drawer handles and such when drawing up your plans, they sometimes stick out too far!
Our cart is our lifeline...inside we have EVERYTHING. it's about 5 feet long, 2 1/2 ft wide, and about 3 ft tall. We keep spare parts, nuts, bolts, wires, a bench grinder, sockets, wrenches, EVERYTHING inside. It gives us a nice big work are and a place to set the robot on when not in use. We also have a car stereo (the old cart had a smaller off-brand stereo...the new one has a kenwood system... two 6x9's, two 6 inchers and two 4 inch tweeters, along with a 1000 watt amp and a bass cannon...it's powered by a car battery). the only problem with a stereo is that sometimes it is a pain to other teams, so you have to be respectful with it. I've included some pics of our previous years cart.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

And for additional information check out:

Robot Cart Suggestions

Killer Carts!

Even though these don't discuss "rules" of building carts, I think they do give some pretty good ideas on what and what not to do.

I also think Alexander said it best with his quote above.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

I would also check out this thread as well
Coolest Bot Carts

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

When making your cart keep in mind that you might be traveling through tight areas and that you might scrape someone with your cart(yes it has happened to me). Try to keep rounded edges! Also I don't think you are allowed to use a remote controlled cart because it might interfere with robots on the field. Their is no written rule against a remote controlled cart but I seem to recall a team getting in trouble for doing that. Remember that at nationals you will have to travel up ramps and down very steep hills.... we had fun with that last year......

GO 1403!!!

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

The ramps in ATL were nothing comparied to the mountians we had to climb in texas.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

Something our team finds useful to put on the cart:

A compressor and tubing so we can "precharge" our robot before a match. Once we're called onto the field, we just pull it out and go.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

Make it a multi purpose cart/crate. Our cart is not only used to haul our robot around at the compitions we also use it as a shipping crate for our tools, materials and spare parts.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

Make room on the cart to hold your controls so some one doesn't have to carry, and possibly drop them, also comes in handy for testing in the cart.

Try to make the cart so the wheels/treads are free so you can do a preflight check with out having to take the bot down.
Oh and the door thing is a major issues try to have at least an inch on each side for a standard door, they can vary that much in some places.
Remember that the cart might be able to fit through the door but the robot has to be on it also so make sure to measure carefully on that one.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

What about a fog machine? Is that legal?

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

I don't know if it is legal or not but. . .
I wouldn't recommend a fog machine at a competition. It would cause alot of safety issues, set off fire alarms, cause confusion and possible panic. They look cool and are fun but should not be used at a robotics competition.

Just my opinion. . .

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

One word SIMPLE! We have this huge cart, nice in the pit, not nice to get to the field. I would just get an "off the shelf" lift cart like our little blue one. I'm almost sure you dont know what I am talking about but I will try to find a pic. and load it on here.

-KL

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

Also, I would recommend that you don't start working on the cart until after the announcement of the game because the dimensions could change for the chassis or it could be an entirely something new and nothing like previous years aka like a water game or hovercraft game or something.

AND

Watch out for sharp edges, it has also happen to me and it HURTS and also make sure you watch out for tight areas because it would stink if you would have to take apart your robot cart just so it could fit in the doorway ( it also happen to us at home before packing for Pittsburgh)

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

If you don't use the kitbot:

wheel-less kitbot + handles + freshmen = short range robot cart

We were able to make something that fit our robot perfectly. It was used as a stretcher to get the robot from the cart to wherever it had to go.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

In addition to everything else that has been stated, remember the to pay attention to the height of the cart. Last year almost every robot had an arm of some type and as a result most robots were close to the max height of 5 feet. A few teams had carts that were 3 feet high to make the it easy to work on the robot. These teams had to take the robot off the cart and carry it through doors because the total was to tall. The pneumatic lift could be a good idea if it allows you to elevate the robot to work on it and lower it to fit through doors.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

To get around the problems of changing width (even between robots with the same base dimensions, there will be some difference), team 330 has semi-adjustible rails on their cart.

Cart specs:
-About 2 ft high by 30" wide by 36" long without handle
-Front wheels are casters, back ones are fixed
-Handle separates from the rest for easy transport
-Wheels are air-filled
-There is a mat zip-tied to the frame to carry tools and an extra battery.
-Rails for holding the robot are held on by Allen screws. Loosen them to remove/slide 'em to fit the robot.

We do have the capability to turn the cart into a workstation, but the surface is a bit unstable. Plus you have to remove the robot, then put it back on. Plus we need a lot of pounding to add the extenders. Not exactly worth it for us.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

Expect to go over the ramp things that they run cables through. 2 inch wheels will not cut it. Get large (6") wheels and your backs will thank you later. Not to mention the team queuing personnel will thank you for being able to move about quickly and easily.

Wetzel

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

Another thing to keep in mind is not only being able to fit into the pit with your cart but to also be able to work in the pit while the cart is there, the pits are crowded enough without adding a cart in the middle of the aisle because there is no room to do work while in the pits. Probably also a good idea to make the top solid enough to work with your robot on top of it and an idea that has always worked for us is to have space to haul tools in case you make finals, its good to have tools by the field because as the finals come around things will break and there isn't enough time to take your robot back to the pit to fix it.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

ok so we have a realllllly nice tool cart, one issue though, its too heavy to bring to competition unless you have the ability to transport it. Carts are large and bulky, so when it comes to designing them keep it light and possibly add a feature that allows you to take it apart and build it at competition

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

I second the suggestion to consider building a cart that comes apart. My favorite is the team with the two tool chests and a top table that all snap into place and can be easily broken down. During the off season, you may be hauling your robot to demostrations and you want to be able to easily transport in a variety of vehicles.
Also there is a team ;) that built a new cart last year, not following a lot of the advice given above. It fit fine in the baggage hold of the bus, arriving to their first competition. But then a different bus came to pick them up and it had a smaller baggage hold and the cart did not fit :ahh: , which created a long stretch of time involving backed up traffic and many debates. A real learning experience.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

After reviewing the thoughts above, my advice would be to follow the KISS principle: Keep It Super Simple. After you experience your first FIRST season, you'll have a better idea of what you need vs. what you want, vs. what you can do. If anything, go really light on the sound system. If you're too loud, the pit bulls get after you. :yikes:

Seriously, a 'little red wagon' can do the job adequately, even though it doesn't look too cool.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

I seem to remember a rule at some regionals that you could not have motorized scooters or vehicles in the pit area, which would rule out any type of motorized cart

let your cart be an engineering project of its own. Decide:

1. What you want it to do (functions) with an eye towards the robot competition (as opposed to being a giant boom box or mobile light show)

then put together a brain storming session and decide

2. How to design the cart to do the "What"

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

If you're going to two regionals, and only one disallows it, wouldn't you only need to attach castors that can drop down to 1/4"-1/8" below the motorized wheels for manual pushing?

Also, if you weren't allowed motorized scooters or vehicles, your robot would be in violation of it if you ever put it down on the floor and turned it on. :confused:

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

our team will be going in to our 3rd year with first and weve experinced that its hand to have a cart that you can work with your robot on it but its a hassel to lift a 130lb bot up 3 ft to the top of your cart and if you have a tower on your robot then you might have a problem getting through ad door which has happend to us.

also what might work is use a small biike lift on on a small cart that is now more than a foot off the ground that way you can get under it to work on it
but this all depends on the game, how far the event is away and how much money and time to spend so just try to keep it simple for this year and next seasion see what other teams have and then go all out on it

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

And make sure that your cart and robot are shorter than a regular doorway. At the PNW Regional last year we had to walk our robot through two doors on the way to the arena. They had regular house-height doors.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

if you want to see a great cart look at MORT team 11 in atl they were next to us in the pits and i could not believe how awesome it was all we had was an ever day dolly

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

I once had plans to make a very fancy robot cart but then one of our engineers said "it would be better to bolt on a few good handles onto the frame than to make a cart for it" While I don't necessarily agree with that completely, it is definitely something to think about. If you can have something like a high gear in a shifting transmission or a drivetrain disconnect or a couple fixed caster wheels on the robot then it is very easy to push or pull.

I think carts tend to get in the way and a lot of room when the robot isn't on them.

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

I had an idea at one of our brainstorming sessions the other day that we might find an old hospital gurney(sp?) to use as our cart. I mean, the robot weight limit this year is 120, and theres no way the robot, even with battery and acessories, will weigh 300 lbs, right? Since I'm sure hospitals need to roll heavy people around on those things at some point, they ought to be rated for the weight

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

Our team has a cart made from unistrut aluminum. It has swivel casters in the back and fixed casters in the front which makes maneuvinering it very easy for one person. We've also got a flip-up table/workbench with a plot of the gamefield on it. The plot is covered with polycarb so we can color on it with dry erase markers and do field-side strategy if we choose. There is also a spot that holds four foldable camp chairs - sometimes the wait in the queing line can get loooooong! In addition it has three drawers for storing:
- a simple set of hand tools for those field side fixes
- critical spare parts in case a problem is discovered in the pre-match check
- a can of freeze spray to keep the motors from getting too unruly
- a flashlight (sometimes the queing area at a venue is dark)
- a game manual and ALL updates - for those quick checks of the rules
- a few other miscellaneous items like zip ties, electrical tape, etc.

One modification we are making this year is to replace our solid rubber wheels with pneumatic wheels. We had a heartbreaking match at nationals last year where our arm was stuck in one position. When we did the troubleshooting back in the pits we found that a wire had come loose in our operator control box. It turns out that the ride between the pits and the field is rough and the solid rubber wheels did not provide enough cushion to protect our controls.

Make sure your cart is versatile enough to accomodate changing robot designs from year to year yet has the functionality you need for field-side maintenance.

Happy cart building!

Sean

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

i know that team 340 has used a hospital gurney for a few years now...you can see a pic here http://team340.katenordland.com/albu...3/117_1726.jpg

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

is there anything against a ride on cart?

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

most likely they wouldnt aprreciate it as it may be considered a safety issue

Re: Robot Cart Questions from a rookie team
 

There is no specific rule that i know of but some ref's/First officials may consider it a safety issue, but if you have seen carts like Trucktown Thunder's which is a driveable cart, that is perfectly safe and is definitly allowed.